EDIT: A lot of you are reading into the tweet while still somehow agreeing with the overall message. No one is saying we should eliminate music programs or that we should teach toddlers about healthcare plans. The tweet is making this thing called a --checks notes-- joke, that also conveys the message that schools could teach more practical skills that young adults will need going forward.
Kids should learn about taxes and other important life lessons. However musical studies help kids a lot. It improves memory, hand eye coordination, increases grey matter in their brains, improves fine motor skills…all sorts of benefits come from learning a musical instrument. Plus once they can actually play you’ll have a live in classical jukebox.
Teenagers should learn this. Not in elementary school.
Have you heard hot cross buns? The tune has three notes, everyone plays the melody because that’s all their is, and it’s like 8 measures long. Maybe even 4 and we just played it slow, I don’t remember. It’s the beginner song. Elementary school kids can handle it, especially since we had to sing and dance every year up until then (also simple stuff for kids).
Not to be confused with three blind mice.
Kids learn to read, to write and to do basic math. Congrats, you can now do taxes and choose a health plan. Most specific tasks people complain about are just the application of other more general skills school aims to teach… And the people who make these complaints are usually the same ones who would fuck around in class and not listen even if they got the classes they “wish for”.
Music is also important, but your first sentence is bogus.
Are you from the US? Because our tax forms are needlessly complicated thanks to lobbyists. It’s not just basic math…by design. And since getting rid of the lobbyists is out of the school’s control, there SHOULD be education. No need to learn how to do it yourself, just pay for TurboTax to make it easy!
There should be more education for our financial system in general. But that would take money from the middlemen and we can’t have that here apparently
Yes I’m from the US and yes it IS easy for most people who can file a 1040 EZ. IF you have to file long form it is marginally more complicated I will grant you, but it’s still read and follow directions. There is still micro economics on the menu if you want more of the finer points of personal finance BUT that is an aside and you still don’t need a PhD to fill out a tax form.
It would of course be great if the government just eliminated or greatly reduced the tax filing process like other countries which as you say is the result of lobbying. HOWEVER. The education that is needed is not “how do I fill out my tax form”, but instead “how do lobbies and special interest groups ruin my life as a result of unfettered capitalism, and how can I help fix that problem”.
For a kid who has never filled out a government document before, tax forms can be daunting. Yes, it’s easy to fill out if you know what you’re doing - but I STILL get worried that I missed something because there are so many boxes I don’t need to fill out and I’ve been doing it for 20+ years. Writing a resume is easier than filling out a tax form and they get taught the basics of that.
So I stand by that high schoolers should be taking life skills classes that include a lessons on filing taxes to get them more comfortable with it. There’s a ton of stuff that they’re currently taught that’s significantly easier AND less relevant to their lives
Having worked for the government, that feeling doesn’t go away for any government forms where there’s a stiff penalty for doing it wrong.
I don’t know what you cut because there is already so much and not everyone uses the same stuff: I use the Pythagorean theorem and quadratic formula and basic trig and all the other stuff people complain about when they don’t do stem. Broad and general basics are about the best you can hope for I think.
Taxes are a certainty for sure, but any time you don’t know what to do there are instructions to reread or internet to consult. I will also admit that I pay a CPA to do it after 18 or so years doing it myself: the filing part is simple enough, but knowing how the code changed so I can minimize tax expense for the next year is work.
Taking the general lesson to the specific application can take training. Not everyone will understand taxes just by reading. Look at how many adults now a days don’t understand tax brackets as a good example. Tax brackets are something that is fairly simple to explain and yet we have a good portion of adults who don’t understand them and will insist they get less money while getting a raise.
My first sentence isn’t bogus, you just happened to understand the general lessons and apply them to the specific application. Other people find that challenging.
Most don’t understand it because most are stupid. About 50% can’t read at a 6th grade level and about 19% are functionally illiterate. Taxes are hard because people can’t read.
Thank you. Every time “why don’t they teach taxes in school?” comes up I want to pull my hair out. All most people have to do is copy about 10 numbers from their w2 into 10 boxes on their 1040ez, do elementary school math, and sign. That’s it. If you attended 2nd grade you learned all of this.
Ah yes, my school health class taught me about nutrition. So I should be able to go home and cook a healthy meal no problemo. Right? Riiiiiiight???
Yes. It isn’t hard.
I got a special exemption to take my health class through a local college, this included additional things like “spiritual health” which advocated practicing meditation
I suck enough at meditating to give the Dalai Llama an aneurysm
It’s also important to expose kids to a major facet of human culture. If they don’t come from a musical household, they may never get exposed to the intoxicating phenomenon of making musical sounds.
Okay but does the music have to be from a recorder? The sound makes me bleed from the eyes.
Easier to learn and more suitable for little hands
Hey, at least they don’t start them on bagpipes.
The Recorder in general isn’t a bad instrument, though. If you hear a flute from the Baroque period, it’s most likely the Recorder. It requires sophisticated technique, but since it’s cheap to make, teachers use it as a teaching method without even knowing that they use the tongue to stop their breath, or that air pressure varies depending on the pitch being made. Also, there are many types of Recorders. What the children use are Soprano recorders, which have a high pitch (duh).
Also it’s just like…fun? And fulfilling? Not everything in education should be about preparing good little workers.
A kid who complains about not learning taxes in school. Would never of paid attention in those classes in school.
Would never of
It’s “would never’ve” or “would never have”. Who wasn’t paying attention in class?
I didn’t pay attention to grammer because that’s for dorks who use the internet toooooooooooooo much
wow sick burn
WOW THANKS!!!
Being exceedingly pedantic about grammar to “own” somebody you disagree with doesn’t make you right, it just makes you an asshole.
This is barely a grammar issue and more of an ignore issue, besides it completely fits the topic this time.
Ingorance of what? Not writing perfectly 100% of the time?
And it doesn’t “fit”. They’re taking a grammatical issue and inflating it to dismiss their point and insult them. Regardless of what mistakes they did or didn’t make, everyone knew what they meant. Making it a “gotcha” doesn’t accomplish anything useful.
There’s genuinely nothing wrong with pointing out grammar in a normal context, it is obviously awful when you dismiss someone’s point over it though which they don’t do here.
That is literally what they did
It’s “would never’ve” or “would never have”. Who wasn’t paying attention in class?
The only point of making a comment like that at the end is to dismiss and shame someone for making a mistake.
Helping someone learn is usually helpful, though perhaps not always wanted. Doing so to call them stupid is not.
According to this exact logic the original commenter did the exact same thing but to the original post.
Taxes are just a really long and complicated math worksheet
The IRS gives you a 100 page step-by-step manual, and only requires addition, subtraction, multiplication and (rarely) division. For someone who just has a W-2, you fill out one field for income and do the math for the tax bracket.
Refigure your depletion deduction for the AMT. To do so, use only income and deductions allowed for the AMT when refiguring the limit based on taxable income from the property under section 613(a) and the limit based on taxable income, with certain adjustments, under section 613A(d)(1). Also, your depletion deduction for mines, wells, and other natural deposits under section 611 is limited to the property’s adjusted basis at the end of the year, as refigured for the AMT, unless you are an independent producer or royalty owner claiming percentage depletion for oil and gas wells under section 613A©.
And why* can’t we just get a pre-filled tax return and confirm it yes/no?
Because that would hurt the poor b/c only the wealthy would still hire tax experts if tax returns were pre-filled.
Naw, the current system doesn’t hurt the poor at all!
*according to lobbyists like Intuit, maker of TurboTax
I think the bigger issue is that too many of the non-poor are willing to vote against their own interests. Europeans don’t hate paying taxes, but they want it to be simple. Americans hate paying taxes, and too many of them can be conned into thinking that it’s bad if the government makes it easier.
I was taught the 140ez in school, most kids didn’t care.
I was taught budgeting in middle school where they actively taught people 3/4 of your monthly paycheck NEEDS to go to your mortgage.
I thought it was bank propaganda looking back on it.
3/4ths is definitely house poor living. There is some benefit to going as big as you can afford though since moving is a huge pain, buying a bigger better house up front can save a lot of headache and possibly money, but even then staying under 40% seems like a good idea.
The hell you were
Most people learn recorder around 8-10 years old. I don’t know why you would want to learn taxes at that age.
Schools teach mathematics, reading comprehension, and how to follow instructions. With those 3 skills people can do their taxes. We used to do it with a paper form and a paper book full of instructions. Now there are programs that do pretty much everything for you, all you need to do is answer questions. If you can’t figure out how to do taxes then you have a bigger problem than the schools not directly teaching you how. As far as understanding all of the intricacies of US tax law, that is a much larger, more complex issue than they would or could reach in general education. There are entire university programs for that education.
Or we could just do it like every other civilized country in the world where they give you a number of what you owe and you say “looks good” or “I don’t think so”.
Thanks to the magic of lobbying we have the privilege of having to endure smart comments like yours!
And maybe a dramatically simpler tax code?
I’m not defending our tax system, I’m saying that with a remedial education you can figure out how to file your taxes. I agree that our system is overly complex to benefit the wealthy. It would be great if they just told us what we owe and we confirm it. But given the system we have, you can figure out how to file your taxes. It’s not that difficult for an average person, in an average situation.
Let’s say I’m married filing separately with a mortgage, student loans, on my wife’s insurance but with my own job where I pay for a Flexible spending account for diabetes supplies. My wife also has student loans, some federal, some private. Let’s say we have a kid and pay for daycare but wife missed open enrollment for dependent care spending account. Maybe we even have our employer cover part of daycare in this scenario, let’s say 25%, but it didn’t kick in until 4 months into the year. Just for fun maybe one of us cashed out an old retirement.
How confident are you that you could handle that situation if you had only gotten a “remedial” education? This is not a super unique scenario even.
Pretty confident, because there are instructions for everything, and there are free web based filing systems that will ask you those questions, and put the values in the correct spots. Free Tax Act is one such application. But what you described is far from an average person, filing an average claim. Many of those circumstances are unique.
Free Tax Act is great for filing jointly or as a single person. It absolutely will let you fail extremely hard if you file separately.
Edit: this might not be true I used free tax USA.
Just want to sneak in I admire your faith in people’s ability, whether I agree with it or not.
Oop! Free Tax USA is the one I was thinking of too.
Just want to sneak in I admire your faith in people’s ability, whether I agree with it or not.
Hehe. Thanks (I think). I have been accused of over-estimating people’s competence on more than one occasion, so I concede that it’s entirely possible that I’m wrong about this subject.
Schools teach mathematics, reading comprehension, and how to follow instructions. With those 3 skills people can do their taxes.
Sure, and since laws are just writing you don’t need lawyers at all, everyone can just represent themselves. In fact, why do specialties exist at all? Programming is just typing, and everyone can type, so everyone can program. Surgery is just cutting things, so if you can use a knife, you can be a surgeon.
I mean, how could someone not easily know what to do when given such clear instructions as:
"Refigure your depletion deduction for the AMT. To do so, use only income and deductions allowed for the AMT when refiguring the limit based on taxable income from the property under section 613(a) and the limit based on taxable income, with certain adjustments, under section 613A(d)(1). Also, your depletion deduction for mines, wells, and other natural deposits under section 611 is limited to the property’s adjusted basis at the end of the year, as refigured for the AMT, unless you are an independent producer or royalty owner claiming percentage depletion for oil and gas wells under section 613A©. "
And none of those examples that you gave are taught in elementary school or highschool. They’re taught as college careers because there’s a breadth of knowledge required to specialize in those fields. We also have tax attorneys, and accountants who specialize in personal tax filing. They learned those skills in college.
Absurd. We should never replace the arts with Home Economics. Two different things. Maybe less time should be spent in those Bush Era textbooks.
It’s meant to be absurd. Buried in the absurdity is a grain of truth.
The problem is, neither the arts nor home economics are valued in the education sphere and we don’t base education policies on science.
As an example, an elementary music teacher I know said “in a school year I will have seen each child for 24 hours. That’s not enough time to reach them some music theory or how to play an instrument.”
The right healthcare plan is the free one offered in another country.
Do people laugh out loud at this kind of joke? Without being judgmental, I never find myself tickled by this setup.
Only at this one
I do in fact find that reply funny!
This isn’t really a joke though. It’s a commentary on preparedness for adulthood and the current version of the machine.
If you think it’s not a joke, you’re kidding yourself.
Never ever replace arts, its why most kids enjoy school. but instead, create a semester long class called life that is required every year.
- year 9, we pay bills, get paid work for the 45min classes to earn wages.
- year 10, you’re now paying bills AND trying to buy a house.
- Year 11, yeah, shit gets real: we OWN a fuckin house! and shits breaks, but you also have kids and your dumbass never went to college… oh and you somehow decide randomly you belong in WSB.
- Year 12, Retirement, learning how to live on a measly $3000 a month for $5000 of bills.
clearly, we’d reward kids for taking college levels, but also trades. but you’d learn how to buy a house, trade stocks, pay bills with what you have…
I literally ONLY remember two things from kindergarten: hot cross buns on recorder and a theatrical performance of Man in the Mirror
Did you guys not have at least basic lessons about how your country works? And were they from the same teacher who did primary school music lessons?
We have classes that teach how the government works, although they’re usually taught by football coaches who would rather teach PE.
And they only cover the technical way that the government theoretically works, not the backroom deals and bribery that actually runs the government.
I had to take a “home economics” class in highschool. However, you could test out of it. I was unaware that you could do this, so I had to take it. They taught us the very basic us tax form, how to write a resume, how to write a check (yes I’m old). It was very remedial stuff that can easily be learned if you need to know it. The 1040EZ tax form is for someone with a regular job and it has a set of instructions that goes with it. In fact, all us tax forms have a separate instruction sheet unless you have a very niche problem such as repayment of unemployment income or something like that.
Well shit, our home ec just had us learn to sew and make really shitty pretzels.
Are you sure you just don’t remember the full course? Ours did sewing and cooking but also how to write a check, budget, etc. There was also a section on interpersonal relationships and a section on nutrition. We made cinnamon rolls instead of pretzels though.
In my school, what you are describing was in a personal finance class, what the parent comment is describing was called home ec. The personal finance class was required and home ec was not.
I don’t think we had a personal finance class, but if so, I didn’t take it. My home ec class covered budgeting, sewing, cooking, nutrition, interpersonal relationships, safe sex, etc. Home ec was required. We baked once and sewed one project.
We also had an elective domestic arts class that was half sewing and half cooking. The cooking portion had us make a different recipe every week. The sewing portion had us sew hoodies, pajama pants, embroidery, etc. If you didn’t take domestic arts, then you had to take CAD.
We did, and no they weren’t. But a lot of people don’t pay attention in school, and don’t remember what they’re taught.
Over a decade ago in our high school we had a personal finance class in 1st year; we learned about tracking stocks, limited budgeting, how to fill out a check and that was really it. However, nobody cared and why should we? We couldn’t even work until 16 years old and we were 14 and you can’t get stocks until 18. If it were at around 3rd year then it would have been more relevant.
Most of this stuff is now obsolete due to technology anyway. I rarely cash in checks but all I do is just take it to cash checking. No name signing, just give them the check, get photo taken, and get the money.
Taxes is the only thing that isn’t obsolete and should be taught at some point somewhere. Sure, some of it is just copying numbers but then there’s tax deductibles and running a business that requires quarterly taxes when over $1k.
We had pretty much the same thing but at the last year of highschool and no one cared either because most of us didn’t work and those who did just spent the money on their scooter or other random shit…
Truth is, it’s better to use that time to make sure people understand the basic curriculum instead of trying to add more stuff on the pile.
To be fair, at the time you’re learning the recorder, you’re doing basic arithmetic. You gotta wait to get into advanced arithmetic before learning to do your taxes.
School also doesn’t teach you how to get dressed or wipe your ass but you still learned how to do those things.
Some things are supposed to be taught to you by your parents. There was nothing stopping any of us from sitting down with our parents and learning how to do taxes which is exactly how I learned about it.
Because first graders are really going to carry those lessons onward 🙄
What does hot cross buns mean in this context?
It’s a super basic song that people tend to learn early in music. It’s three notes and a very simple pattern.
HOT
CROSS
BUNS
HOT
CROSS
BUNS
ONE-A-PENNY TWO-A-PENNY
HOT
CROSS
BUNS
When I was in school, that was just the first song they’d teach us on the recorder so I assume it’s meant to be the teacher pushing on with the lesson instead of listening to the student.
It’s one of the first songs taught on a recorder.
I’m going to become rich and famous when I invent a recorder with a headphone socket.
Electronic flutes already exist. They’re just expensive as hell, because they’re not designed for mass production with cheap injection-molded plastic.
