What can you get to within a 15-minute walk of your house?
A recent YouGov survey asked Americans what they think they should be able to get to within a 15-minute walk of their house.
Of these choices, I can currently walk to all of them from my apartment, aside from a university (no biggie, I’m not currently studying, although there is a Tafe within walking distance), a hospital, and a sports arena.
How many can you get to with a 15 minute walk from your house?
#fuckcars #walkability #urbanism #UrbanPlanning @fuck_cars #walking
Why are bars so low? Do Americans like having to use a car when drinking?
Apparently it’s important that they can walk to a petrol station though.
American here, the gas station is our version of the local corner store. Most places you have to drive to get to it but where I live there is one right at the entrance to the neighborhood and lots of adults/kids do walk there. I would sorely miss it if it was gone.
I agree with this, but also want to point out that gas stations are a poor substitute for a corner grocer or bodega. They are simply too large and require too much land for the function they are serving. Zoning rightfully mandates that they can’t be on the bottom floor of a larger building due to the dangers posed by gasoline and they require lots of space for cars to park.
Essentially, we have forfeited a lot of valuable space to dispensing gasoline and significantly diminished the best features of corner stores by making them serve both functions. I would be curious to see what would happen if gas stations were forbidden from serving anything other than gas in high density areas. I would assume there would be much fewer of them, and each one would be optimized for efficiency to take up as little space as possible. We would also likely see the reemergence of neighborhood bodegas and corner grocers to fill the gap.
Significantly diminished?
I live maybe 10 minutes walk from a gas station, it’s the size of a small grocery store, it has lot of staple groceries and a mini restaurant in it that makes pizzas, sub sandwiches, coffees, ice cream, and a full breakfast menu. Plus donuts every morning. Our gas stations often take the place of 2/3 businesses rolled into one.
I live by a QT for those Americans familiar with STL’s favorite gas station
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Probably don’t want to live near drunks, or the piss and vomit that exists after a weekend.
Living near one, I don’t have these issues
That and the noise, bars can be pretty loud
Tbf we’re talking about within a 15 minute walk, not inside your building. There’s a bar 5 minutes away from me and I can’t hear the noise there unless I’m literally standing next to it.
Same, I have a bar a few lots from mine, and it only gets bad a few weekends a year.
I have neighbors that blast music while having super smoky fires and getting piss drunk, though. They are much much worse than the bar. Hands down. Because I can’t have windows open about half the time without my house smelling like smoke (a smell that gives me migraines).
If you ever drive through rural America, you’ll usually at least see one or two crosses, often on telephone poles, on rural roads. People, often teenagers, die pretty regularly in rural America because of drunk driving.
Some people like it. Some people are just numb to it. It’s just insane to expect people not to when bars are the only social space in a lot of these towns, and those bars are not accessible by anything but car. There is no such thing as a taxi for most of the US (space wise, not population wise).
That was the one that stood out to me, too (especially the dichotomy between “bars” and “restaurants”). It maybe explains a lot if NIMBYs are actually just moralizing puritans being dishonest about their motives.
I’d wager not a single example of a 15-minute city exists or has ever existed throughout all history without a bar in range.
The website has a British version that doesn’t include bar/pub as a choice at all. Does include liquor store, though. Thought that was odd
Some things go without saying.
Why would you need to ask if a pub should be in a 15 minute city. Its like asking should a house be in a 15 minute city? Should electricity be in a 15 minute city?
This stuck out to me too. This is one of my top items for a 15 min. city, not because I visit bars frequently, but because when I do visit, or when my neighbors visit, I’d like it to be a car-free trip.
Where are they going to have AA meetings? that’s the bigger concern. the only thing on the list that functions as a community center is the elementary school and park.
Maybe they want to drink at home
@Vash63 @ajsadauskas they drink piss-weak beer and if you have more than two somebody will accuse you of being an alcoholic
Lol, local breweries have completely saturated the American market. I barely know anyone that drinks traditional retail beers anymore outside of sports and/or music venues where outside drinks aren’t allowed.
@ajsadauskas @fuck_cars One thing you can get within a 15 minute walk of some US homes is arrested!
(My grandma went for a walk in a Miami suburb. The locals thought that someone walking (rather than driving) was obviously suspicious so they called the cops. Because my grandma was white and female and elderly, rather than black and male and young, they stopped to talk to her rather than just shooting her. They then spent several minutes trying to get her to admit that she was walking because her car had broken down - they just couldn’t get it through their heads that she was walking because she wanted to walk.)
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@Zugumba @ajsadauskas @fuck_cars On my one trip to Texas my host said we were going out to dinner. So at the hotel we got into a car, were driven out of the hotel car park, up the ramp onto the motorway, along for one junction, down the ramp, and into the restaurant car park.
And when I looked around I could see that the hotel was in fact next door. Each was surrounded by a vast nearly empty car par. We could have walked from one to the other … except of course there was an impenetrable fence between the two car parks. 'cos nobody would want to walk, would they, when they could drive, so why leave a gap in the fence?
And then … there were all sorts of weird hoops to jump through before we were allowed to buy alcohol to go with our dinner. Of course if we’d been able to walk from the hotel we could have drunk as much as we liked without worrying about being sober enough to drive back.
They saw an elderly woman walking on the street, and they didn’t shoot her on sight?
I hope those officers were fired on the spot for not following standard protocol!
I used to live in South Carolina and recently moved to Chicago. Despite there being many more police in Chicago, I’ve actually had less of a feeling of police anxiety because I don’t drive here. The cops are on the roads pulling cars over. They aren’t in alleys and side streets following pedestrians (at the same rates, anyways). If walking and cycling are normal and built for, police are less of a problem, imo.
16% said “should not” to a grocery store? What?
I feel like there should be a separate question for the “I don’t want anything near me” rural choice, since those might be making the rest of the responses misleading.
How is bar so low?? Do people want drunk drivers? Because that’s how you get drunk drivers
Who needs a gas station within walking distance? One need a gas station within 15-minutes driving.
I wonder what the meaning of “should not” is in this survey. A restaurant “should not” be withing 15 minutes of my home, as in “I don’t want any restaurants near me” or is it “It’s not important enough to be in the local government’s target list”?
I don’t understand the red bars the way the question is phrased now. Why wouldn’t you want a park near you?
If they used the phrase “15 minute neighborhood” during polling then a portion of the no’s are probably from people who have had it turned into a trigger word for them by conservative talk media.
Yeah that’s what I’m assuming the 16% who don’t even want a grocery store near them is. That sets your baseline.
“If your local government did adopt…”
I bet 16% don’t want “the government” to anything.
That said, people in my neighborhood are strongly against sidewalks. Something about bringing the problems of the big city to us. (I presume crime, but it could be anything.)
“It’s not important enough to be in the local government’s target list”
I think this is the correct interpretation given the exact wording of the question.
Gas station above elementary school?
Why do you need a gas station in walking distance?
Am I the only one impressed 16% of people dont want a grocery store nearby?
Do the 32 percent not know what a bus stop is?? Why would you want a bus stop farther than 15 minutes away???
@ajsadauskas @fuck_cars I’m kind of sad that “cafe”, “bookstore”, and “library” aren’t even on this list at all. 😢
I would honestly have to do a web search to find out where the nearest elementary school, day care, and gas station are, but I’d be stunned if I didn’t have those within 15 minutes. As it is, I do have everything else, including a university and a sports arena, and *two* malls. (I’m in between the Barclays Center and Long Island University in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, NYC.)
I do not understand why you would want to walk to a gas station.
Makes you wonder how many people actually understood the question.
Also, you have to realize the obesity problem isn’t just a function of our diet, many people can’t imagine walking fifteen minutes no matter what.
Everyone answering that they understand it to mean “convenience store” is missing out on standalone convenience stores….
But what about a “garage”, that traditionally used to be at gas stations as well. I find it very convenient that when my car needs servicing, I can drop it off and walk home. Yes, I also need a car and that shouldn’t contradict walkability
Snacks
Tbf, 24/7 kiosks are even better than that
Wouldn’t a grocery store cover that use case?
Grocery stores typically have normal working hours. Petrol stations could be thought of to work 24 hours. Also ducking into a small kiosk for a snack is less of a hassle than a grocery store.
Who doesn’t run out of gas in your own home, every now and again?
Most gas stations here have convenience stores attached and they’re typically 24 hr. It’s a common gathering place for night owls and degens lol. I’ve spent a lot of time at gas stations just hanging out with friends or the cashier after getting off work at 3am. Drink a couple tall boys, chain smoke, shoot the shit and unwind a bit before heading home. It’s nice
Pretty bizarre results. Park and bus stop should be 100.
University, hospital, mall, theatre, arena? Those are massive, you can’t have one 15 minute walk from everywhere.
Now bars are the one commercial item that’s easy to have around.
Im confused about (from the poll)
- bar… if this is not walkable you are promoting drunk driving. (even if its not your thing)
- what do you need to walk to the gas station for? or is this being used also as a corner store?
@ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars Why on earth would anyone answer ‘should not’ to a bus stop being within 15 mins? How are they thinking you get to the bus stop, by driving?!
Also, as a Dutchie, the amount of ‘should nots’ for a bar within 15 mins is killing me. I understand it, but it points to such a lack of imagination about what a city can look like. I have at least 20 bars within 15 mins walk of home and I’m not in the city centre 😄
@Brendanjones @urlyman @fuck_cars You need to keep in mind we are talking about a country here where a not insignificant proportion of the population thinks walkable neighbourhoods are a deep state conspiracy…
@ajsadauskas
I am reminded of Bill Bryson, writing in a different century (just), on why no-one walks https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/bryson-s-america-why-would-you-walk-1079183.htmlGood read.
Bill Bryson is British though, so he grew up with a generation accustomed to not seeing public transport as a dirty word.~ Edit: Nope, he just has a good british accent. nvm,When I visited LA, I was amazed at how good the public transit system there is. A bus driver would literally wave people through if they didn’t have the right fare, and would literally wrangle wheelchair users into their seat at the cost of their own backs. Yet, there was always this feeling that the people who used the bus were less than scum…
… no other country has this stigma when it comes to using public services.
I lived in LA for a few years…without a car!
The transit system was great for me because I worked at a Uni and got direct service door-to-door. It worked just all right for my wife. It was convenient for her, but she worked downtown in a professional office. The kind where people wore suits and the senior people still wore ties (in LA!).
Buses were clean in the morning and full of people headed to work, but on her return trip they would be be…fragrant with a different clientele. This isn’t meant to be classist, but she didn’t feel safe and was worried about cleanliness. Our drycleaning bills were high.
We were told we could manage for a couple years because we didn’t know anyone and so we didn’t get invited anywhere. It was true. All of our trips were to popular, well serviced destinations.
That was prescient advice because eventually we did meet people and started getting invited to dinner parties etc. where buses simply didn’t run. And a car was purchased.
I think safety is a huge thing. As a woman, I can imagine feeling less than secure in such a setting. As a man, it seems okay though
I had no idea, I assumed men used transit more, but you’re right:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/715212/public-transit-use-gender-transit-mode-united-states/
Getting soceity to be less misogynistic seems like it might be the right way forward indeed (or in any case)
That article is worthy of its own post.
The average American walks less than 75 miles a year - about 1.4 miles a week, barely 350 yards a day.
Edit: Be the change and all that… I created a post and thanked you. Cheers
No, it’s an insignificant portion.
@Brendanjones @ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars Indeed. Bars should *only* be in a 15 minute walk. You should never need to drive to a bar!
@CurtAdams what about sailing? ;)
https://www.hampshire-history.com/point-portsmouth/Bus bar
Some people think the “wrong sort of people” will come to a neighborhood if there’s a bus stop. Like they’re going to get on the bus, break into your house, and get back on the bus holding your tv.
Honestly 15 minutes is way too much for a bus stop. If it’s more than 10 minutes walk away it might as well not exist, and the target should always be under 5 minutes.
@Zagorath @Brendanjones In the UK one of the magic numbers planners used for bus stops (or did a few years ago when I was in the loop) was 400m
Yeah 400 m is the goal here in my city of Brisbane, Australia, too. That’s where I was aiming when I said 5 minutes, since a walking pace of about 10 minutes/kilometre is pretty reasonable and 5 minutes gives you a little bit of buffer on that.
@Brendanjones I miss passing Dutchies (as in Dutch people), on Dutch streets or in Dutch bars, on the left or the right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_the_Dutchie
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@otfrom @ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars c’mon man, this is the wrong type of pedantry. Of course park and ride exists, and is sometimes a useful option for connecting people to public transport. But it is absolutely not the correct choice if it’s *in place of* being able to walk 15 mins or less to a bus stop, for anyone living in an urban area. Requiring everyone to drive 10 mins and then park to catch the bus every day is ridiculous urban design.
@Brendanjones @otfrom @ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars
I’d also mention that, at least in Denver, the Park&Rides actually interfere with walking to our stations. The large garages and/or surface lots are often situated smack in the middle of pedestrian and bike routes. And, they use land that could be used for transit-accessible housing.
@Brendanjones @otfrom @ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars
People I know that have used Park&Rides, often tell me, after abandoning them, “It’s just easier to drive in once I’m in the car. And I hate paying to park and then the light rail fare.”
@MarvinFreeman @otfrom @ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars Regarding the money, that’s annoying because it should be solvable. For example Amsterdam has park n rides on its outskirts because they don’t want cars in the city. The P+R parking is far cheaper than parking in the city (literally 10x cheaper), so the cost of the tram is a non-issue.
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@MarvinFreeman @otfrom @ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars And also changing mode of transport twice! Changeovers suck and add time to your journey.
@otfrom @Brendanjones @ajsadauskas @urlyman @fuck_cars TBH probably no one should ever involve a park and ride in their trip to the fucking bar 🍻
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