Well, older versions of windows still exist so it would be years before put into the position of having to consider a subscription. Even then? I would rather that than Linux. There is literally nothing that Linux offers that I find outweighs the enormous downsides of the OS. Those being that very little of what I use/am interested in has any Linux support, Linux being needlessly complicated for the average/casual user, and it being such an enormous departure from windows that the time I’d have to spend learning the OS wouldn’t be outweighed by benefits.
Okay so I promise you that this will be the only “Linux proselytizing” comment I will make to you, after this I’ll shut up forever about Linux lol. I know we can be a bit incessant…
Well, older versions of windows still exist so it would be years before put into the position of having to consider a subscription. Even then? I would rather that than Linux.
Windows 10 was released in 2015. It will be a decade old next year, and support for it will begin to vanish soon. Windows 11 has stringent hardware requirements that means it won’t run on most of my devices, so it’s not even an option if I wanted it.
Anything before 10 is too old to run a ton of new software. I actually moved to Linux in June because I finally could no longer put off upgrading from Windows 7 on my audio PC. A few programs needed to update but would not do so for Windows 7.
Those being that very little of what I use/am interested in has any Linux support
I feel you there. I have years of old work on Windows, so I still need to keep my Windows partition lying around.
Last time I tried to use the Windows partition on my laptop, a Windows update broke it. According to Microsoft, I basically have to reinstall from scratch. So even when I gave Microsoft a chance to play nice, they burned me.
I recognize that some users cannot fully abandon Windows, myself included, but it might make sense to partially abandon Windows or move new work to a new operating system. Also, WINE allows you to run many Windows programs on Linux. Anecdotally, Fallout New Vegas played better on Linux in WINE than it did on Windows 7 with the same hardware, even with like 100 cursed mods.
At a bare minimum, definitely give it a shot if you have any old computers to revive. I put Debian on my grandmother’s 10 year old computer that could barely handle Windows after being factory reset, and it runs like a treat now.
Linux being needlessly complicated for the average/casual user
Short version: it can be as complex or as simple as you need it to be. For a no-fuss option, go for Linux Mint.
My daily experience of using a computer has scarcely changed. It’s still “point and click to reach your destination”. I do use BASH commands pretty often, but only because I’m trying to do something too technical for a graphical interface on any platform, or because the command is a few seconds faster than doing it in the GUI. The terminal embedded into the file browser I use (Dolphin) makes using BASH commands so much easier, because I’m a very “visual” guy.
IMO unless you’re doing something where a program needs serious hardware access, just go with Flatpaks (or a distro with baked-in Flatpak support) for programs. I use KDE Plasma and it has a lot of Windows-like features (actually, it’s the other way around—Windows has a lot of Plasma-like features, because Windows “takes inspiration” from Plasma). By default, it has a Start menu and task bar, and it uses the desktop metaphor just like Windows. IMO it’s like the Windows desktop with a ton of extra options and telemetry disabled.
I use Debian as my daily driver on all my computers. It was mildly complicated to set up, no more so than Windows, but after about two weeks of acclimating it’s been zero drama ever since. In contrast, Windows machines usually failed to boot about twice a year per machine for various reasons in my house. If you need those complex features that Linux has, (1) they’re available for you, but you don’t have to touch them, and (2) they’re not kept secret like many undocumented features in Windows.
I actually wouldn’t recommend Debian for most new users, since it’s more focused on stability than being new, fresh, easy to use, or basically anything else. It has been there literally longer than I have been alive, and I expect it will be considering how many Linux distros reuse their work as a base. Also, it doesn’t come with Flatpak support by default, but it can be enabled in one command. I come from the school of “never update ever” and I’m slowly unlearning I same thing that habit, so Debian works for my use case. Also, some of my applications do need to be tightly integrated with the hardware. However, these applications are inherently technical, and would be difficult on a default Windows setup (i.e., Windows sucks by default for pro audio work, which needs to work fast). I’d recommend Linux Mint if you’re really not interested in tinkering.
and it being such an enormous departure from windows
Internally it definitely is different from Windows, but again my experience so far has not been markedly different from Windows other than that it runs with less drama. Actually, Linux is internally more like almost every other OS being a Unix derivative, particularly OSX and the BSDs. It is Windows that is the “odd one out”.
And like…yeah, that’s kinda the point. As a desktop environment, Windows is fine and usable, but as an operating system it sucks. It has a ton of bloat, it keeps too many secrets, and it doesn’t give you the stability you pay for. It’s no better than Linux, just better supported because of the network effect. If you like the look and feel of Windows, you can get that with the right choice of desktop environment (IMO KDE Plasma or Cinnamon) without giving your money and data to Microsoft.
IMO if you really want to check if a Linux distro (or any other OS with a live version) is right for you, try out a live USB of a given system for a few days and see if you like it. Most importantly, make sure you can connect to the Internet and you can see your screen. Then the rest should be fixable without an external computer. That’s how I got roped into this. I tried it for like a week and I didn’t want to go back.
There is literally nothing that Linux offers that I find outweighs the enormous downsides of the OS.
IMO Linux offers freedom, security, privacy, auditability, control, documentation, diversity, and decentralization. Each of these are worth an essay and this comment is already getting long so I’ll spare you the details. Freedom alone would make the switch worthwhile IMO, and I wish I understood that sooner.
And now I will shut up about Linux forever to you unless you want to know more.
Very well put comment, as a fellow Linux user I agree with everything and just 1 note. KDE Plasma is the best thing humanity has created and it should be called the 8th wonder for its beauty.
Listen, I appreciate all that but if anything? That makes me even less likely to use Linux. I don’t want to use it because I said it is needlessly complex. Nothing about what you said dissuades me from that. If anything, it’s made worse by the fact the system is even more complicated than I thought necessary.
Then there’s convenience. You say that Linux Mint and such is for no hassle but then said that a bunch of stuff isn’t Linux supported so you have to work around it with Wine. That’s not convenient. Neither is having to do research on which version of Linux will fit my needs.
What I want is a system that does what I tell it to do, is streamlined, is intuitive, is simple and is universally supported. Linux doesn’t meet a single one of those criteria for me. I’d say does what I tell it to, which it does, but only after I have to spend 5 minutes googling how to do it.
I appreciate the effort and information but you would actively have to pay me to use Linux.
I somehow doubt it won’t soon.
Well, older versions of windows still exist so it would be years before put into the position of having to consider a subscription. Even then? I would rather that than Linux. There is literally nothing that Linux offers that I find outweighs the enormous downsides of the OS. Those being that very little of what I use/am interested in has any Linux support, Linux being needlessly complicated for the average/casual user, and it being such an enormous departure from windows that the time I’d have to spend learning the OS wouldn’t be outweighed by benefits.
Okay so I promise you that this will be the only “Linux proselytizing” comment I will make to you, after this I’ll shut up forever about Linux lol. I know we can be a bit incessant…
Windows 10 was released in 2015. It will be a decade old next year, and support for it will begin to vanish soon. Windows 11 has stringent hardware requirements that means it won’t run on most of my devices, so it’s not even an option if I wanted it.
Anything before 10 is too old to run a ton of new software. I actually moved to Linux in June because I finally could no longer put off upgrading from Windows 7 on my audio PC. A few programs needed to update but would not do so for Windows 7.
I feel you there. I have years of old work on Windows, so I still need to keep my Windows partition lying around.
Last time I tried to use the Windows partition on my laptop, a Windows update broke it. According to Microsoft, I basically have to reinstall from scratch. So even when I gave Microsoft a chance to play nice, they burned me.
I recognize that some users cannot fully abandon Windows, myself included, but it might make sense to partially abandon Windows or move new work to a new operating system. Also, WINE allows you to run many Windows programs on Linux. Anecdotally, Fallout New Vegas played better on Linux in WINE than it did on Windows 7 with the same hardware, even with like 100 cursed mods.
At a bare minimum, definitely give it a shot if you have any old computers to revive. I put Debian on my grandmother’s 10 year old computer that could barely handle Windows after being factory reset, and it runs like a treat now.
Short version: it can be as complex or as simple as you need it to be. For a no-fuss option, go for Linux Mint.
My daily experience of using a computer has scarcely changed. It’s still “point and click to reach your destination”. I do use BASH commands pretty often, but only because I’m trying to do something too technical for a graphical interface on any platform, or because the command is a few seconds faster than doing it in the GUI. The terminal embedded into the file browser I use (Dolphin) makes using BASH commands so much easier, because I’m a very “visual” guy.
IMO unless you’re doing something where a program needs serious hardware access, just go with Flatpaks (or a distro with baked-in Flatpak support) for programs. I use KDE Plasma and it has a lot of Windows-like features (actually, it’s the other way around—Windows has a lot of Plasma-like features, because Windows “takes inspiration” from Plasma). By default, it has a Start menu and task bar, and it uses the desktop metaphor just like Windows. IMO it’s like the Windows desktop with a ton of extra options and telemetry disabled.
I use Debian as my daily driver on all my computers. It was mildly complicated to set up, no more so than Windows, but after about two weeks of acclimating it’s been zero drama ever since. In contrast, Windows machines usually failed to boot about twice a year per machine for various reasons in my house. If you need those complex features that Linux has, (1) they’re available for you, but you don’t have to touch them, and (2) they’re not kept secret like many undocumented features in Windows.
I actually wouldn’t recommend Debian for most new users, since it’s more focused on stability than being new, fresh, easy to use, or basically anything else. It has been there literally longer than I have been alive, and I expect it will be considering how many Linux distros reuse their work as a base. Also, it doesn’t come with Flatpak support by default, but it can be enabled in one command. I come from the school of “never update ever” and I’m slowly unlearning I same thing that habit, so Debian works for my use case. Also, some of my applications do need to be tightly integrated with the hardware. However, these applications are inherently technical, and would be difficult on a default Windows setup (i.e., Windows sucks by default for pro audio work, which needs to work fast). I’d recommend Linux Mint if you’re really not interested in tinkering.
Internally it definitely is different from Windows, but again my experience so far has not been markedly different from Windows other than that it runs with less drama. Actually, Linux is internally more like almost every other OS being a Unix derivative, particularly OSX and the BSDs. It is Windows that is the “odd one out”.
And like…yeah, that’s kinda the point. As a desktop environment, Windows is fine and usable, but as an operating system it sucks. It has a ton of bloat, it keeps too many secrets, and it doesn’t give you the stability you pay for. It’s no better than Linux, just better supported because of the network effect. If you like the look and feel of Windows, you can get that with the right choice of desktop environment (IMO KDE Plasma or Cinnamon) without giving your money and data to Microsoft.
IMO if you really want to check if a Linux distro (or any other OS with a live version) is right for you, try out a live USB of a given system for a few days and see if you like it. Most importantly, make sure you can connect to the Internet and you can see your screen. Then the rest should be fixable without an external computer. That’s how I got roped into this. I tried it for like a week and I didn’t want to go back.
IMO Linux offers freedom, security, privacy, auditability, control, documentation, diversity, and decentralization. Each of these are worth an essay and this comment is already getting long so I’ll spare you the details. Freedom alone would make the switch worthwhile IMO, and I wish I understood that sooner.
And now I will shut up about Linux forever to you unless you want to know more.
Very well put comment, as a fellow Linux user I agree with everything and just 1 note. KDE Plasma is the best thing humanity has created and it should be called the 8th wonder for its beauty.
Listen, I appreciate all that but if anything? That makes me even less likely to use Linux. I don’t want to use it because I said it is needlessly complex. Nothing about what you said dissuades me from that. If anything, it’s made worse by the fact the system is even more complicated than I thought necessary.
Then there’s convenience. You say that Linux Mint and such is for no hassle but then said that a bunch of stuff isn’t Linux supported so you have to work around it with Wine. That’s not convenient. Neither is having to do research on which version of Linux will fit my needs.
What I want is a system that does what I tell it to do, is streamlined, is intuitive, is simple and is universally supported. Linux doesn’t meet a single one of those criteria for me. I’d say does what I tell it to, which it does, but only after I have to spend 5 minutes googling how to do it.
I appreciate the effort and information but you would actively have to pay me to use Linux.
well then you want OSX… because windows is far from those