A little-discussed detail in the Lavender AI article is that Israel is killing people based on being in the same Whatsapp group [1] as a suspected militant [2]. Where are they getting this data? Is WhatsApp sharing it?
Lavender is Israel's system of "pre-crime" [3] - they use AI to
Uh yes? Iran is oppressive as fuck, but yeah they’re not an Apartheid state, and hell even if they were. At least Iranian women get citizenship and the right to a fair-ish trial.
Admittedly I don’t know much about the state of Kurds in Iran, but again we have a literal genocide in Gaza. What little I have read doesn’t mention anything that intense in Iran.
no its not close. fuck Iran’s givernment generally, not the good guys, but killing Nazis is always good. everyone gets points for that even if they otherwise suck.
You can literally look up what happened on Wikipedia, but the short of it is Mongol invasions and Mamluk misrule. I mean two thirds of the population left, that shit got everyone (though it admittedly got Jews and Christians more). Then it was victim to more Ottoman misrule. Not saying these are good things, but speaking as a Muslim Middle Eastern guy the scathing hatred for Jews in the modern Middle East is unlike anything from before the 20th century, and the stereotypes you’ll usually see (mainly the deceptive Jew that can’t be trusted to hold a promise and Jews controlling the world) are direct results of Zionist actions.
A quick read through Wikipedia showed significantly lower number.
Prior to the Muslim conquest of Palestine (635–640), Palaestina Prima had a population of 700,000, of which around 100,000 were Jews and 30-80,000 were Samaritans,[67] with the remainder being Chalcedonian and Miaphysite Christians.[5][68][69]
The pace of conversion to Islam among the Christian, Jewish, and Samaritan communities in Palestine varied during the early period (638–1098),[70] and opinions vary regarding the extent of Islamization during the early Islamic period.[71] While some argue Palestine was already majority Muslim by the time of arrival of the First Crusade, others contend that Christians were still in the majority and the process of mass adoption of Islam took place only from the 13th century onwards, during the Mamluk period.[71]
Are we totally going to ignore the fact that the Mamluks and other Turks were foreigners who only had Islam to try to bond with the region they were taking over. It’s not like it was Levantine Jews vs Levantine Muslims.
It’s a lot like how the US helps Israel because it has the same western values despite religion.
Talking about the “initial fault” in this conflict is moot. We’re at a point, where both sides can reasonably point to some events in the past and blame the other side for the conflict.
Fact is, Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and its allies are religious fanatic militias, while Israel is a liberal democracy, supported by pretty much all of The West™. Of course the expectations towards Israel regarding human rights and international law are slightly higher. And let’s be honest, what Israel is doing right now is certainly not helping calming the situation, or even making long term peace.
while Israel is a liberal democracy, supported by pretty much all of The West™.
Man Israel has more than 5 million people under an occupation that denies them any and all human rights. They’re not a liberal democracy in any stretch of the word.
authoritarian, apartheid, theocratic, genocidal and willing to start world war three over looking bad
Iran is authoritarian and theocratic, and the people there don’t love that.
I feel like one of these things is worse than the other. indefensibly, past the fucking moral event horizon, ‘kill them all and then shoot the bodies to make sure they’re dead’ levels of worse.
world war three isn’t, like, acceptable. theres no defense for that sjit, especially with some of the military hardware they now have.
lol “liberal democracy”. they’re as homophobic and more transphobic. they’re howling fascists that make the Nazis look like noobs (learning from history I guess. in a the worst ways). they don’t have virtue.
but iranisnt trying to start world war three, and they aren’t trying to do a genocide, so theyre the sensible allies here.
unless you want a global thermonuclear war. then by all means; back the Zionist terror forces.
If somebody supports Israel, they are supporting a genocide based on perceived land needs of the Israeli people.
If somebody supports Palestine, they are supporting a genocide based on the outright extermination of the Jewish people, funded by Iran and Qatar.
I don’t think we can get anywhere unless all of us as leftists acknowledge that the Jews of Israel will be in the same position the people of Palestine are in right now if we don’t thread the needle of support and guess what? We are not fucking threading that needle.
equivocating ‘the Jewish peolle’ with kapo genocide orcs doing 'protocols of the elders of zionc larp is antisemitic as fuck. what do you expect from a bunch of literal Hitler apologists though?
Uh… Hamas has tried to make peace with Israel before. Multiple times. Including two attempts to hand over Gaza to the PA and start peace negotiations. Israel has refused all of them.
So first, “Hamas killed all the PA in Gaza” ignores that it was the PA trying to overturn the result of democratic elections. Not saying Hamas didn’t do fucked up things either, but let’s not forget how it happened.
That said, there were many efforts for reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah. You’ll notice a theme of Israeli opposition to all of these.
Israel was literally funding Hamas in order to drive a wedge between Palestinians and stop chances of a unified leadership arising. Netanyahu admitted to as much. It is an Israeli media source, inb4 muh bias.
the real reason he bribed them was to buy quite to appear as someone who is “strong against terorrism”
about the funding, so i guess hamas had no choice but to murder people in order to recieve more money. after all its not like they recieve millions in aid from all over world, the only funding is bibi so he gets to tell them how to act and who to kill
Uh… They are? Hamas has stated what they consider an acceptable ceasefire by listing their bare minimum “if we don’t get this there’s no point” demands and Israel keeps rejecting them. It’s Israel refusing to compromise here.
uh, not the Jewish people. I support Palestine, and I’m not down for killing the guy who runs the donuy shop, or the guy at the deli, or even two of my ex girlfriends.
equivocating ‘the Jewish people’ with ‘israel’ is blatantly antisemitic and potentially genocidal. stop.
I don’t believe you truly didn’t understand what I said. I think you just wanted to tell the person concerned about antisemitism that he is the true antisemite.
You will be blocked if you try that on me again. So please either try good faith dialog in your next response or don’t bother responding.
they’re not concerned about antisemitism if they’re equating Jewish identity with a genocidal fascist apocalypse cult that draws protocols of the elders of Zion fan art on everyone’s maps.
well, not in the direction one would hope they’re concerned.
So Iran can fund jihad against Judaism itself, and it’s Israel’s fault?
Literally yes. The state of anti-Semitism in the middle east is a direct
causeresult of Israeli Apartheid.Edit.
And Iran is not an apartheid state?
Uh yes? Iran is oppressive as fuck, but yeah they’re not an Apartheid state, and hell even if they were. At least Iranian women get citizenship and the right to a fair-ish trial.
Bro gtfo, kurds have suffered under Iranian regime for more than a century, israel palestine conflict doesn’t even come close.
Yeah you get the fair trail as long as your aren’t kurd.
Man we have a genocide going on in Gaza.
Admittedly I don’t know much about the state of Kurds in Iran, but again we have a literal genocide in Gaza. What little I have read doesn’t mention anything that intense in Iran.
I’m not denying the ongoing genocide, but acting like Iran is some kind of good faith actor in the region is total bullshit.
no its not close. fuck Iran’s givernment generally, not the good guys, but killing Nazis is always good. everyone gets points for that even if they otherwise suck.
You think hatred of Jews among Muslims started after the creation of Israel?
That is ahistorical nonsense, and you know it.
Do you wish to try again?
Not after the creation of Israel, after Zionists started trying to take Palestine in 1917.
Conveniently ignoring about a thousand years of history there, little buddy.
Conveniently ignoring about a thousand years of history there, little buddy.
Go on, what’s that history?
There were 300,000 Jews there when tbs Mamluks took power and 5,000 when the Ottomans took power.
What happened? Did the Jews disappear?
You can literally look up what happened on Wikipedia, but the short of it is Mongol invasions and Mamluk misrule. I mean two thirds of the population left, that shit got everyone (though it admittedly got Jews and Christians more). Then it was victim to more Ottoman misrule. Not saying these are good things, but speaking as a Muslim Middle Eastern guy the scathing hatred for Jews in the modern Middle East is unlike anything from before the 20th century, and the stereotypes you’ll usually see (mainly the deceptive Jew that can’t be trusted to hold a promise and Jews controlling the world) are direct results of Zionist actions.
Where do you get the 300,000 figure?
A quick read through Wikipedia showed significantly lower number.
I got my number from the same article, under the Mamluk portion.
Are we totally going to ignore the fact that the Mamluks and other Turks were foreigners who only had Islam to try to bond with the region they were taking over. It’s not like it was Levantine Jews vs Levantine Muslims.
It’s a lot like how the US helps Israel because it has the same western values despite religion.
nothing makes Hezbollah seem reasonable quite like hezbarrah does.
Bot account?
no just something a lot of hezbarites need to hear.
literally yes. they didn’t give a shit before the 'all Jews are aligned with israelc protocols of the elders of Zion fanfic those fuckers are pushing.
and then making their entire existence genocide and atrocities.
Talking about the “initial fault” in this conflict is moot. We’re at a point, where both sides can reasonably point to some events in the past and blame the other side for the conflict.
Fact is, Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and its allies are religious fanatic militias, while Israel is a liberal democracy, supported by pretty much all of The West™. Of course the expectations towards Israel regarding human rights and international law are slightly higher. And let’s be honest, what Israel is doing right now is certainly not helping calming the situation, or even making long term peace.
Man Israel has more than 5 million people under an occupation that denies them any and all human rights. They’re not a liberal democracy in any stretch of the word.
Israel is an authoritarian state, they throw people in jail for disagreeing with the government, or just being Palestinian / Muslim.
authoritarian, apartheid, theocratic, genocidal and willing to start world war three over looking bad
Iran is authoritarian and theocratic, and the people there don’t love that.
I feel like one of these things is worse than the other. indefensibly, past the fucking moral event horizon, ‘kill them all and then shoot the bodies to make sure they’re dead’ levels of worse.
world war three isn’t, like, acceptable. theres no defense for that sjit, especially with some of the military hardware they now have.
lol “liberal democracy”. they’re as homophobic and more transphobic. they’re howling fascists that make the Nazis look like noobs (learning from history I guess. in a the worst ways). they don’t have virtue.
but iranisnt trying to start world war three, and they aren’t trying to do a genocide, so theyre the sensible allies here.
unless you want a global thermonuclear war. then by all means; back the Zionist terror forces.
I don’t know if I fully buy that argument.
If somebody supports Israel, they are supporting a genocide based on perceived land needs of the Israeli people.
If somebody supports Palestine, they are supporting a genocide based on the outright extermination of the Jewish people, funded by Iran and Qatar.
I don’t think we can get anywhere unless all of us as leftists acknowledge that the Jews of Israel will be in the same position the people of Palestine are in right now if we don’t thread the needle of support and guess what? We are not fucking threading that needle.
What? No significant player in Palestine is trying to do that.
equivocating ‘the Jewish peolle’ with kapo genocide orcs doing 'protocols of the elders of zionc larp is antisemitic as fuck. what do you expect from a bunch of literal Hitler apologists though?
If we pretend the “elected” government of Palestine is in significant than sure.
Uh… Hamas has tried to make peace with Israel before. Multiple times. Including two attempts to hand over Gaza to the PA and start peace negotiations. Israel has refused all of them.
Hamas killed all the PA in Gaza after the takeover in 2006. when did they ever attempt to give gaza back?
So first, “Hamas killed all the PA in Gaza” ignores that it was the PA trying to overturn the result of democratic elections. Not saying Hamas didn’t do fucked up things either, but let’s not forget how it happened.
That said, there were many efforts for reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah. You’ll notice a theme of Israeli opposition to all of these.
nothing like throwing people off of roofs to show how democratic you are
israel being against reconcilliation does not effect hamas, they did it because they wanted to.
so…when did they try to give it back multiple times?
Israel was literally funding Hamas in order to drive a wedge between Palestinians and stop chances of a unified leadership arising. Netanyahu admitted to as much. It is an Israeli media source, inb4 muh bias.
the real reason he bribed them was to buy quite to appear as someone who is “strong against terorrism”
about the funding, so i guess hamas had no choice but to murder people in order to recieve more money. after all its not like they recieve millions in aid from all over world, the only funding is bibi so he gets to tell them how to act and who to kill
Israel isn’t the one rejecting the cease fire right now.
Uh… They are? Hamas has stated what they consider an acceptable ceasefire by listing their bare minimum “if we don’t get this there’s no point” demands and Israel keeps rejecting them. It’s Israel refusing to compromise here.
Also you ignored my reply.
Uhm… No.
Hamas rejected the last ceasefire because they won’t hand over 40 hostages.
At least keep current of the news if you are pretending you care.
uh, not the Jewish people. I support Palestine, and I’m not down for killing the guy who runs the donuy shop, or the guy at the deli, or even two of my ex girlfriends.
equivocating ‘the Jewish people’ with ‘israel’ is blatantly antisemitic and potentially genocidal. stop.
I don’t believe you truly didn’t understand what I said. I think you just wanted to tell the person concerned about antisemitism that he is the true antisemite.
You will be blocked if you try that on me again. So please either try good faith dialog in your next response or don’t bother responding.
they’re not concerned about antisemitism if they’re equating Jewish identity with a genocidal fascist apocalypse cult that draws protocols of the elders of Zion fan art on everyone’s maps.
well, not in the direction one would hope they’re concerned.
You were told you would be blocked if you didn’t stop playing that game.