I read somewhere that people have bumpersticks and stuff that say things like “I got the car before he went crazy” or “if I knew him then, I wouldn’t have bought it”

Same boat here. I bought mine back when Elon was just “juvenile weirdo who makes dick jokes and smoked weed with Joe Rogan”. Best car I’ve ever owned hands down, no intention to buy anything Elon is selling ever again.

My biggest non-Elon complaint is the lack of Vehicle to Load. That is such an amazingly useful feature that’s ONLY AVAILABLE on the garbage cybertruck.

This is what I’ll now show to lemmy when they again run in their denial circles about tesla being a bad car, or the company going bankrupt soon.

That’s not limited to EVs, though. Most modern cars have the same antifeatures.

The spyware you are mentioning is in gas cars too. It isn’t exclusive to EVs it is a problem with all new cars.

You’d be hard pressed to find any modern car that isn’t doing that.

I was able to get my Toyota’s DCM disabled and did a data collection opt-out with the company. It was a total pain in the ass and they tried very hard to dissuade me, but it is possible (depending on manufacturer).

I disabled the OnStar unit on mine and don’t use any of it’s associated apps.

I consider electric only to be a commuter car at best. It’s not going to be able to do a road trip. And depending on the car and the commute may even not be able to do a grocery run after work some days.

I really wonder what kind of car you drive. Sounds like a Nissan Leaf or something.

I’ll share a couple of anecdotes regarding my experience with EVs:

My parents live on a farm in rural Maine. They are on their second Chevy Bolt (first was a lease, and they liked it so much that they upgraded to a later generation when the lease expired). It’s an inexpensive, no-frills EV that is their primary means of transportation. Living in the country, the shortest trip they take is likely to be at least 20 miles round-trip. In the past, I’ve borrowed that car for an overnight trip to Vermont. We made sure to charge it at home before the leaving, and drove to Vermont without needing to stop. I don’t recall the exact distance, but it was about 4 hours of driving through rolling hills. We charged it again in Vermont, and drove home the next day.

My partner and I have a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 that we bought used for $28k. It’s all-wheel drive and has a battery warmer, both of which are helpful in cold climates. We do not have a charger at home. My wife’s commute is 20 miles round trip, and we are able to charge the car where she works, which we do roughly once a week. Although the car itself is capable of charging very quickly, the charger available to us is a low-power home charger, so it’s nice to be able to leave it plugged in during the full work day. We don’t hesitate to take this car on longer trips, especially if they take the interstate highway system or pass through major cities, where faster charging is always available.

When I bought the car, it was 150 miles away from my house. It was charged to 100% when I picked it up, and the car estimated 300 miles of range. We arrived at home with 50% charge remaining, so I’d say the 300 mile range was pretty accurate.

With this car and our charging habits, daily driving doesn’t really require any special thought or planning at all. For longer trips, anything less than a 150 mile round trip requires no more planning than “I should make sure to charge it within a day or so of the trip, if possible.” For a trip in the 250 mile range, I would definitely prefer to start fully charged, if possible, otherwise I’d want to explore charging options along the way. Only if going over that would I definitely feel the need to investigate charging options at my destination or along the route. A home charger would make things even simpler, but as it is it’s so low-stress that we don’t feel a lot of urgency to get one installed.

I recommend reading Tim Bray’s experiences with several years of EV-only ownership, including some long (1000+ mile) road trips in Canada. Here are a couple:

• 5 year retrospective
• An in-depth report of a 1000 mile trip from Vancouver, BC to Regina, Saskatchewan

I’ve found that buying used is fine if the car is still under the manufacturers original warranty. Better yet if it has the premium/extended warranty package.

That’s basically the only warranty that you would care about (and actually want to extend), most other warranties have so many exclusions that they’re not worth it. And definitely ignore anyone calling you telling you that they’ve “been trying to reach you about your cars extended warranty.”

I’ve found the range is better than what they claim for stop and go city driving due to regen braking. But otherwise the range estimate is about as accurate as the miles per gallon estimate on a gas car.

It is definitely way cheaper to own than a gas car.

Spot on. Another thing to consider is weather. EVs perform worse in cold weather - lower ranger and slower charging. Some manufacturers are worse than others. Preconditioning while plugged in is super helpful in below freezing temperatures and use the heated seats and heated steering wheel instead of climate control if you can.

Just needs some research if you live somewhere where below freezing temperatures occur at times in a year. Absolutely not a reason to avoid EVs altogether, just know the limitations, what to expect, and how to best mitigate some of the limitations.

Double your commute gives you a buffer for the heater, or the grocery run after work. For most people this is only 80 miles… which almost every electric only car can do without issues.

Is the cost worth the vehicle?

This is where I get grumpy. I feel like that kind of range is a different category of vehicle, and it should be significantly cheaper than an ICEV, since it means I need to plan around the range.

I realize it’s the size of the battery pack, so it isn’t where most of the cost of the vehicle comes from, but still.

When it’s time to replace my current vehicle, I’ll probably go PHEV. But ideally public transit will be solved, so I won’t need to. 🤣

as most level 2 chargers can add ~18 miles/he charging (overnight charge means 144 miles charge).

Level 2 EVSEs (the charger is actually in the car) have a wide cross-section of power delivery. Portable units are usually limited to ~20 amps and will do this level of charge. Installed units with a sufficient circuit can charge at a rate 40 - 60 miles / hour. They are also considerably more expensive and should be installed by an electrician (adding more cost).

For the record, Level 1 EVSE’s (that plug into a US 110v outlet) only do 3 - 5 miles/hour. Important to know for US renters who might not be able to get a 220v circuit to their parking spot.

Is the cost worth the vehicle? Buying new is expensive, buying used can be risky. Do your research thoroughly and you’ll be able to decide what fits what you NEED (and that answer may easily be a used ICE vehicle instead)

This is one of the rare cases where, at least for right now, leasing a new vehicle may make more sense financially than purchasing outright. For one thing, many more cars are eligible for the $7500 federal tax rebate when leased instead of purchased. For another, used electric vehicles seem to lose their value a lot more than ICE vehicles. This is a combination of newer, better cars being released at lower prices than previous vehicles and consumers being unsure of the capacities of older battery packs. The latter is seeming to be less of an issue than feared based on preliminary data, but we really only have long-term results for a few models. The former is much more volatile from the market, though. Elon Musk single-handedly tanked used car values when he dropped prices on model 3 and Y vehicles, and it happens every time they cut prices, but Tesla is not the only electric manufacturer that’s been cutting prices on new cars. While manufacturers would love to sell for high prices, the reality is they need a larger market to be profitable from economies of scale, so as they reduce costs there’s been a general trend to cut prices too, either by cutting prices on existing models or introducing new, less-expensive models.

All of that is to say, it looks like the leasing companies aren’t factoring in enough depreciation on current leases. A lease is essentially you paying for the depreciation of the car. If you’re paying for a $50,000 car to be worth $35,00 in two years but it actually ends up being worth $25,000 in that time you’ve come out ahead, especially compared to if you bought it and tried to sell it yourself.

If you’re pushing for the lowest range, lowest cost EV that covers your daily needs, it will be a commuter-only car.

worse for battery longevity (level 3 chargers)

Is this because the power on fast charges is too high and bad for batteries in the long run?

This wall of text is like an EV prophylactic

I am exactly you except I live in the south.

I’m in New England and have had a Tesla for 3 years now. Two years ago we drove it down to South Carolina & back. No issues at all thanks to their supercharger network.

Sometimes you need to check your tire pressure, too.

The general reduction in scheduled maintenance requirements is really wonderful.

What about for gas station sushi?

Recharge the car when you’re away from home?

Most large gas stations I’ve been to have chargers now.

Dang 4 cars in 7 years?

This is the case with all newer cars. If you’re avoiding EVs for privacy then the same reason applies to any car with OnStar, OTA updates, apps for your phone (remote start, locate, etc.) Or pretty much any car made in the last 10 years or more.

I definitely appreciate wanting to protect your privacy and will readily acknowledge that any EV will make that a problem. But almost every car made since the Tesla Roadster has the same problems. Now, if we could get our respective governments to pass laws stopping this BS, that would be really nice.

I’m really intrigued by the Ioniq. It isn’t cheap, but it looks great.

Same boat as the other reply, I really like the look and features of the Ioniq. How much space do you have in the boot and in the interior in general?

Tesla require a better grounding than the building code in most countries

Is this a European thing too? I’ve never heard of this limitation in the US, and I certainly didn’t have to get anything changed. I’m curious about the details

Your second paragraph is why I haven’t pulled the trigger yet. I don’t WFH, but my commute is only about 10 miles round trip and most of my errands are done within that same area. My Toyota is 12 years old and only has ~80k miles on it, so it just doesn’t make sense to switch at this point.

That said, I’m casually looking for a new job and my commute would go up dramatically for a lot of options in my field, so I haven’t eliminated the possibility.

If your #1 priority is to save the planet and not pollute and you have the money, so of course go for it.

In the pollution case, it’s better to keep a viable used ICE car running than to go buy a new EV. But that’s completely ignoring the economics of it. Battery is cheap once purchased. And ICE has more maintenance and repair costs.

I work remotely too so a new car is an unnecessary expense. Instead a purchased a different kind of EV: an electric bike!*

*This is a lie I’ve bought four of them send help

My EV has been from Minneapolis to Key West, Seattle, Toronto and plenty of shorter road trips. I don’t stray far off the beaten path but I haven’t had issues charging.

Sadly that’s not going to be BMW specific for much longer, they’re all taking a page out of that book. 2022 Hyundai, long story on how I managed to kill a single spark plug at 30k miles, but this time last year the part wasn’t listed anywhere. It was FORTY DOLLARS for a SINGLE plug from Hyundai. I’m sure there were alternates that would work but I wasn’t going to risk it over 40 bucks at that low mileage.