I don’t understand the correlation with technical people on Mac. Like I DONT GET IT 😭
how can you just be ok with not being able to do stuff you want? I tried to use a cracked iPhone before deciding just to buy a new android because I just bout exploded with the corporate shenanigans apple has.
Edit: It would appear that Mac is very different from IOS. Ive never tried it other than 15 minutes of fiddling with a friends once, nice to know it’s not as locked down as IOS is.
Many thanks, but I hardly understand this conversation lol
Macs have a decent terminal + CLI interface built in, and decent hardware. Also, for many years apple offered huge discounts for students through their university, so many CS students got a macbook for super cheap and just never stepped out of the ecosystem.
The CLI interface is literally just GNU BASH, people need to understand Apple steals everything slaps a fresh coat of paint on it and boasts how innovative they are.
~full disclosure; I’m super jealous andhave always wanted a Mac Pro or Macbook Pro~
It’s better than power shell or whatever crap is on windows. Even WSL had issues the last time a used it a few years ago. Mac is Unix which Windows will never be.
The fact that Microsoft made it is what keeps me from using it as a daily driver. If it were an open source project I’d use it (on linux even) as my login shell in a heartbeat
The main problem is its different from the main POSIX style shells. Just makes it very confusing to use with its own proprietary functions and commands.
OS X and iOS are completely different beasts, iOS is a closed off nightmare whereas OSX is basically just stable pretty Linux missing a few packages and costing more
The fact I had to use iTunes to put music on my phone and the lack of access to the filesystem were extreme deal breakers for me. There is also the impossible hoops you had to jump through to change ownership of a phone. I gave my mother my old iPhone when I changed to Android and it was impossible to scrub my account from it, even with a factory reset.
The environment felt way too sterile for my liking. It treated me, a legitimate tech savvy user, like a malicious imbecile.
I hate this take. That is not how security should look on consumer devices at all and it’s one of the ways the security industry is being co-opted to ruin consumer devices. The user is not the attacker on a consumer device. Consumer devices should provide tools to enable strict protections and allow the user to choose. It should be easy to put the device into the fully locked down state at instal/initial provisioning, likely even the default, but it should also be easy to deviate from that during provisioning. After provisioning it should, of course, be incredibly hard or impossible to go from the locked-down state to the nonlocked-down state without wiping data.
I use a Mac precisely because it lets me do what I want. Linux is endless configuration and poorly designed UIs, Windows is an incoherent mess that needs to be wrestled back to a usable state with every major update. Mac does what I need without any fuss.
Truth be told, I have a PC for gaming and a Linux server for Plex, *arr, and home automation. But when I need to get work done, it’s the MacBook. No question.
This is the key difference people miss in this discussion. Being able to do the things you want varies so wildly but the system gets out of the way entirely to let you do things. Not sit and endlessly tweak configurations. While for some that might be what they want to do and believe me macOS also has endless configuration parameters to tweak, the class majority just want to do things with the computer as a tool. It’s a subtle nuance but you said it well, it specifically lets you do whatever you want. Editing configs for hours to customize the desktop environment is not the same as being productive with the system.
Mint is very good. Seriously. If I had to daily drive Linux on the desktop, I’d use Mint. But even Mint is a far cry from a Mac in terms of usability and software compatibility.
I’d also have to go back to x86-64 to use Mint, and that’s a big step in the wrong direction. I’m sure that won’t always be the case, but at the moment, the ARM Linux situation is still quite fragmented.
For tech people, OS X is basically a BSD with a pretty UI that comes preinstalled on nice hardware (which is important mainly because corporate IT procurement is only gonna give you a choice between a Mac or a [Dell|HP|Lenovo] business-line machine running Windows (and with corporate policy that prohibits installing Linux). The Mac is a much nicer choice in that situation.
Also remember that, although they’ve backed away from it now, there was a time back in the 2000s when Apple was leaning into the UNIX hackability of the OS – they were coming out with stuff like XServe and Automator and went out of their way to design their machines for toolless upgrades of things like RAM. Some of the popularity of Macs among technical people stems from that era, and memories of it.
iOS, by the way, has always been an entirely different story. Your experience with a cracked iPhone isn’t even slightly representative of the experience using an OS X Mac.
There are a lot of things that Apple just straight up tells you you can’t do – I don’t use a Mac often enough to make a list, but I can tell you that running apps made by people who aren’t giving Apple $99/yr for code signing was recently added to it – and using MacOS means being okay with that.
I’m always confused by people who don’t seem to understand that MacBooks and iPhones run different OSs. Why would they run the same OS?
You can install pretty much anything on a MacBook via the open-source package manager brew. I’ve been exclusively using Linux at home for almost 20 years, but on my work computer, which is a MacBook, I really don’t find much is missing. I use the same oh-my-zsh profile on both, brew install the real version of most utilities, and I move on with my life and get work done.
Apple doesn’t lock down the bootloader at all, so it’s trivial to install Asahi Linux now if you want to. I did this on my home computer because I like the screen, battery life, and keyboard layout.
It’s kinda simple actually. As much as I love patching the Linux kernel or debugging it, or anything really it takes a lot of the one resource in life I have less of each day, time. Generally on macOS I can just upgrade and not bother worrying about breakage. Not always sure but if you’ve ever had to deal with python libraries or c libraries and updating source you start to go if I’m not getting paid for this crap why bother.
My entire network is almost all Linux but I generally just use macOS mostly cause safari battery life is insane. Plus zsh as my shell I live in the terminal and use emacs I can pretty easy migrate off either but video apps and audio are so much better on macOS it’s not even funny. Maybe now that the realtime kernel patches are in mainstream Linux audio can get closer to macOS audio latency but I won’t hold my breath.
I can’t speak to windows though I don’t really use it outside of work related usage which is minimal as I work for a company that sells a Linux distribution.
I don’t understand the correlation with technical people on Mac. Like I DONT GET IT 😭
how can you just be ok with not being able to do stuff you want? I tried to use a cracked iPhone before deciding just to buy a new android because I just bout exploded with the corporate shenanigans apple has.
Edit: It would appear that Mac is very different from IOS. Ive never tried it other than 15 minutes of fiddling with a friends once, nice to know it’s not as locked down as IOS is.
Many thanks, but I hardly understand this conversation lol
Macs have a decent terminal + CLI interface built in, and decent hardware. Also, for many years apple offered huge discounts for students through their university, so many CS students got a macbook for super cheap and just never stepped out of the ecosystem.
The CLI interface is literally just GNU BASH, people need to understand Apple steals everything slaps a fresh coat of paint on it and boasts how innovative they are.
~full disclosure; I’m super jealous andhave always wanted a Mac Pro or Macbook Pro~
Actually its zsh but yeah nothing special.
Unfun fact: it switched from bash to zsh because Apple was butthurt and paranoid about GPL v3. Fuckin’ cowards.
It’s better than power shell or whatever crap is on windows. Even WSL had issues the last time a used it a few years ago. Mac is Unix which Windows will never be.
PowerShell is like the 1 good product Microsoft has made the las 10 years
That is a dangerous opinion. In my mind, Microsoft has made zero good products.
The fact that Microsoft made it is what keeps me from using it as a daily driver. If it were an open source project I’d use it (on linux even) as my login shell in a heartbeat
The main problem is its different from the main POSIX style shells. Just makes it very confusing to use with its own proprietary functions and commands.
OS X and iOS are completely different beasts, iOS is a closed off nightmare whereas OSX is basically just stable pretty Linux missing a few packages and costing more
OSX is
basically just stable pretty Linuxliterally BSD, including licensing the UNIX trademark to make it officialFTFY.
The fact I had to use iTunes to put music on my phone and the lack of access to the filesystem were extreme deal breakers for me. There is also the impossible hoops you had to jump through to change ownership of a phone. I gave my mother my old iPhone when I changed to Android and it was impossible to scrub my account from it, even with a factory reset.
The environment felt way too sterile for my liking. It treated me, a legitimate tech savvy user, like a malicious imbecile.
So it’s doing security correctly.
That’s like saying martial law is doing security correctly.
I hate this take. That is not how security should look on consumer devices at all and it’s one of the ways the security industry is being co-opted to ruin consumer devices. The user is not the attacker on a consumer device. Consumer devices should provide tools to enable strict protections and allow the user to choose. It should be easy to put the device into the fully locked down state at instal/initial provisioning, likely even the default, but it should also be easy to deviate from that during provisioning. After provisioning it should, of course, be incredibly hard or impossible to go from the locked-down state to the nonlocked-down state without wiping data.
I use a Mac precisely because it lets me do what I want. Linux is endless configuration and poorly designed UIs, Windows is an incoherent mess that needs to be wrestled back to a usable state with every major update. Mac does what I need without any fuss.
Truth be told, I have a PC for gaming and a Linux server for Plex, *arr, and home automation. But when I need to get work done, it’s the MacBook. No question.
This is the key difference people miss in this discussion. Being able to do the things you want varies so wildly but the system gets out of the way entirely to let you do things. Not sit and endlessly tweak configurations. While for some that might be what they want to do and believe me macOS also has endless configuration parameters to tweak, the class majority just want to do things with the computer as a tool. It’s a subtle nuance but you said it well, it specifically lets you do whatever you want. Editing configs for hours to customize the desktop environment is not the same as being productive with the system.
have you tried mint
that’s the stereotype a lot of people believe but it’s just false imo
if your hardware is compatible, then it’s as simple as any other os
I’ve been daily driving Debian and arch for over a decade lol.
Mint is very good. Seriously. If I had to daily drive Linux on the desktop, I’d use Mint. But even Mint is a far cry from a Mac in terms of usability and software compatibility.
I’d also have to go back to x86-64 to use Mint, and that’s a big step in the wrong direction. I’m sure that won’t always be the case, but at the moment, the ARM Linux situation is still quite fragmented.
For tech people, OS X is basically a BSD with a pretty UI that comes preinstalled on nice hardware (which is important mainly because corporate IT procurement is only gonna give you a choice between a Mac or a [Dell|HP|Lenovo] business-line machine running Windows (and with corporate policy that prohibits installing Linux). The Mac is a much nicer choice in that situation.
Also remember that, although they’ve backed away from it now, there was a time back in the 2000s when Apple was leaning into the UNIX hackability of the OS – they were coming out with stuff like XServe and Automator and went out of their way to design their machines for toolless upgrades of things like RAM. Some of the popularity of Macs among technical people stems from that era, and memories of it.
iOS, by the way, has always been an entirely different story. Your experience with a cracked iPhone isn’t even slightly representative of the experience using an OS X Mac.
Because it’s Unix, and Windows isn’t, and they refuse to try Linux because it’s
not backed by a corporationtoo much of a headache to use day-to-dayHuh? What do you mean?
There are a lot of things that Apple just straight up tells you you can’t do – I don’t use a Mac often enough to make a list, but I can tell you that running apps made by people who aren’t giving Apple $99/yr for code signing was recently added to it – and using MacOS means being okay with that.
I’m always confused by people who don’t seem to understand that MacBooks and iPhones run different OSs. Why would they run the same OS?
You can install pretty much anything on a MacBook via the open-source package manager brew. I’ve been exclusively using Linux at home for almost 20 years, but on my work computer, which is a MacBook, I really don’t find much is missing. I use the same oh-my-zsh profile on both, brew install the real version of most utilities, and I move on with my life and get work done.
Apple doesn’t lock down the bootloader at all, so it’s trivial to install Asahi Linux now if you want to. I did this on my home computer because I like the screen, battery life, and keyboard layout.
Hardware that doesn’t fail due to “parts pairing”
It’s kinda simple actually. As much as I love patching the Linux kernel or debugging it, or anything really it takes a lot of the one resource in life I have less of each day, time. Generally on macOS I can just upgrade and not bother worrying about breakage. Not always sure but if you’ve ever had to deal with python libraries or c libraries and updating source you start to go if I’m not getting paid for this crap why bother.
My entire network is almost all Linux but I generally just use macOS mostly cause safari battery life is insane. Plus zsh as my shell I live in the terminal and use emacs I can pretty easy migrate off either but video apps and audio are so much better on macOS it’s not even funny. Maybe now that the realtime kernel patches are in mainstream Linux audio can get closer to macOS audio latency but I won’t hold my breath.
I can’t speak to windows though I don’t really use it outside of work related usage which is minimal as I work for a company that sells a Linux distribution.