Estonia’s large Russian-speaking minority used to be taught in Russian. The government has responded to Russia’s invasion with a reform to end this. Now, lessons will only be taught in Estonian.

  • aramis87@fedia.io
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    8 days ago

    Their families have had eighty fucking years to learn Estonian. What makes you think that “further accomodation” in Russian will give them any desire or impetus to learn the language?

    • poVoq@slrpnk.netM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      8 days ago

      Why punish children for things their parents and grandparents did?

      • magnetosphere@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 days ago

        Why punish the rest of Estonian society? Why continue to isolate children who can’t speak the local language?

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 days ago

          You remind me of people arguing that America is an English-speaking country and those filthy Hispanics should just learn the language.

          • magnetosphere@fedia.io
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 days ago

            Estonia has a two-tiered education system. As mentioned in the video, in the Russian-speaking schools, students don’t perform nearly as well as in the Estonian-speaking schools. I’m optimistic that eliminating the language barrier would solve that, and students would be better off.

            Also, in Estonia, the Russian-speaking group is a limited number of students (unlike in America, where there’s a regular, constant influx of migrants). The transition will be difficult, but at least the problem has an end in sight, and it’s only a generation or two away. In America, it would go on forever, which is why I wouldn’t support it in the U.S.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 days ago

              Also, in Estonia, the Russian-speaking group is a limited number of students (unlike in America, where there’s a regular, constant influx of migrants).

              Uh… what the shit? That is your problem? Would you support it if Israel suddenly said they’d stop Arabic language education?

              The transition will be difficult

              Transition to what? The fundamental problem with this sort of de-Russification plan (and let’s be clear here the reason is de-Russification) is that… wiping out minority cultures is a bad thing, not that the “transition” is hard. And to make matters worse this is an ideological kneejerk meant to make a statement, not something done to improve these kids’ education; I’m not expecting a disaster on the level of Canadian residential schools but this is not good.

              • magnetosphere@fedia.io
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                7 days ago

                Would you support it if Israel suddenly said they’d stop Arabic language education?

                No, primarily because it’s Arabic land that was carved up by Europeans after WWII. I’m generally in favor of restoring and preserving native rights and culture.

                Transition to what?

                As I said, an improved education system and less divided society.

                The fundamental problem with this sort of de-Russification plan (and let’s be clear here the reason is de-Russification)

                Neither the video nor I am talking about a large-scale cultural change. Besides, the Estonians are the natives. Less than a hundred years ago, Russia made them a satellite country and treated native Estonians like second class citizens. Putin has used the existence of Russian culture as an excuse to invade other countries. If this is indeed part of a de-Russification plan, Estonia is only doing it to prevent being invaded and wiped out.

                Wiping out cultures is a bad thing, right? Russia already has their own country. Their culture is safe.

                • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  7 days ago

                  Neither the video nor I am talking about a large-scale cultural change.

                  It doesn’t need to have “large-scale cultural change” written on it to be large-scale cultural change. It’s nearly guaranteed there’s more coming where this came from. This whole thing stinks of WWII Japanese internment camps.

                  Besides, the Estonians are the natives.

                  Why does that matter?

                  Less than a hundred years ago, Russia made them a satellite country and treated native Estonians like second class citizens.

                  Yeah and screw them for that. However, this is a whole generation ago; Russian-speaking children today have nothing to do with that.

                  If this is indeed part of a de-Russification plan, Estonia is only doing it to prevent being invaded and wiped out.

                  Estonia the… EU country? Are you kidding me?

                  Russia already has their own country. Their culture is safe.

                  Again replace Russian with Arabic and see if your argument makes sense.

        • poVoq@slrpnk.netM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          8 days ago

          How is the rest of Estonian society punished if children are not forced into classes taught in a language they don’t speak? And sure the previous isolation was also bad, but at least they were able to learn something.

          Honestly… the amount of people here arguing like the children deserve any of this is very sad. Reminds me of Israelis arguing the Palestinian children deserve what is happening in Gaza. Are you even listening to yourself?

          • magnetosphere@fedia.io
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 days ago

            Society is punished by remaining divided.

            I understand your frustration. I don’t think anyone believes that the children deserve this; only that it’s the least harmful way to solve a problem that the Russians created. There’s a big difference between the two.

            If there were a better, faster, less disruptive option, we would be in favor of that.

            • amelore@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              8 days ago

              There are better, slower ways.
              Introducing this gradually (i.e. all children since a certain birth year), having extra language classes for the older children that need it. It’s not a uniquely Estonian problem, all places with migrants deal with children of linguistic minorities.

              They’re children, the ones under 6 will adapt to a different language quite quickly and at 18 there were already no Russian language colleges, so even at its slowest it would only take 12 years.

      • aramis87@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        8 days ago

        If the children don’t adapt, you’re simply replicating the mistakes of the past into the future. And every generation of kids has to learn and adapt to things their parents and grandparents never considered. My great-great-grandparents never dealt with car traffic. My great-grandparents never dealt with the threat of nuclear weapons. My grandparents never dealt with computers. My parents never dealt with school shootings. Change - both good and bad - happens.