Transcript
A threads post saying “There has never been another nation ever that has existed much beyond 250 years. Not a single one. America’s 250th year is 2025. The next 4 years are gonna be pretty interesting considering everything that’s already been said.” It has a reply saying “My local pub is older than your country”.
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While the US is pretty old as a state, most societies have a direct continuation from one state to the next. It’s not like when France overthrew its monarchy they stopped being France or seeing themselves as French. So they may see their continuous history as much older than the current state, with the Kingdom of France going back to 987.
The US doesn’t have a continuous history prior to 1776 because they mostly come from Britain but they denounce their British heritage and they settled in NA but also denounce the heritage of the local peoples there. So the average American sees their entire history as starting at 1776, maybe a little bit further back to include the initial colonies and that’s about it.
It’s not like when France overthrew its monarchy they stopped being France or seeing themselves as French.
They didn’t even stop being a monarch (for very long). I think they’re on something like their Fifth Republic at this point, because they keep going back and doing Bourbon Restorations, cause some of them cannot stop being monarchists no matter how hard they try.
Monarchists are like the fucking hydra. Chop off a thousand heads and you somehow get two thousand more monarchists in their place. It’s bananas.
I am sorry, but walking property of French feudals wasn’t part of French nation.
That aside, kingly blood from year 987 has, due to arithmetics of human procreation, gotten into most people from European countries by now. So technically a modern Frenchman can associate with a king of France from 1000 years ago, if they want that. Just doesn’t make much sense.
XIX century romanticism is the problem. Everyone has learned of their nation’s long and mythologized history because of that. Everyone believes that, which to an extent makes that real. Sibelius’ music, Goethe’s poetry, Vasnetsov’s paintings, whatever. Strong aesthetic and symbolic. While German national-socialists kinda made too much of this distasteful, they’ve also made new things that came before them seem old and good. And by comparison more real.
If we do direct continuations, the US can do that with England.
And so, if we don’t do ‘direct continuation’, the USA are older than France? Is that what you mean?
Wait till these people find out about Japan.
You guys think it’s bad reading all this online?
Try living here…
I bet outside of the US they have a very different perspective of what it’s like living here right now.
Specifically, the fact that things like some of our largest protests ever aren’t even being covered inside the states. There are huge public displays thousands and thousands of people being completely ignored by media. I wonder what else we’re not being allowed to see here.
This isn’t a facepalm. As any red-blooded American knows, the only country worth mentioning is America. Since all countries of note were founded after America, this OP is correct.
Remember the time we stumbled on an old local church with an American coworker. Yes dude, that thing was over 500 years old when Columbus discovered your continent, allegedly.
Columbus didn’t even travel to north america, he went to middle- and south america :D
France, Switzerland, england, bavaria, brandenburg, vatican, spain, netherlands, denmark, sweden, portugal
I could go on and on
Americans have been brought up on national exceptionalism in school. This is what they’ve been told since they were children. The “logic” being that other countries have reformed their governments once in a while for different reasons while the U.S haven’t. Sweden for example was according to american logic founded in 1994.
A ha ha ha ha Sweden is fouded in 1994 🤣😂 ouch my stomach hurts! What the hell 😁 I mean at least make it 1894 or something.
I don’t remember anything special in 94?? Maybe we got a borglig regering? But with that logic the USA is only some months old lol.
Sweden joined the EU on Jan 1st of 1995 requiring som changes in governance (just formalities with no real impact). Google even listed Sweden as being founded in 94 for at least a decade. I used to show that to people as an example of why they shouldn’t trust information from the internet blindly.
Another metric Americans and no one else use for age of countries is last time the constitution (grundlag) was changed. This would make Sweden born in 1974. Nevermind that the U.S has made several “addendums” to their constitution efter the fact. They don’t consider that a change.
Oh I can almost see the logic - It’s like an append-only log, you only add to it, the original text is still original
Except amendments can override existing parts, so in reality, the US was born May 7th 1992 and judging by its age and personality, was likely a Vine star for a while.
Arguably, I believe America is the oldest constitutional nation.
Even british constitutionalism is older
“Even”?
well that ended pretty recently unfortunately
That would be San Marino.
most other countries still have their constitution though
San Marino
I feel this isn’t quite the same though. When a country has a complete change in politics/ruling of the nation, then it really isn’t the same country anymore. (French Revolution ending in 1799 shouldn’t be still considered the same country, even though the name is the same. England still allowed the royal family to have power over the people and politics until 1957 so wasn’t a “full” democracy, Bavaria I became part of Germany in 1949, etc…) The US has for its entire time listed has always been an elected government that followed the constitution, meaning it’s been the same country.
Total rubbish. In the 1700s only landowners could vote. Truly universal suffrage wasn’t enshrined until 1965, so by your reckoning America is only 60 years old.
Changes of government don’t mean an entirely new country, there’s continuity like how France refers to the 1st republic or the current 5th republic. It’s still France.
So you mean the usa never modernise? Checks out…
You’re talking about “a country”, the guy in the OP talks about “a nation”. Pretty vast difference between the two.
You’re entirely right but Bavaria became a part of Germany in 1871.
Sorry about that, I just had done a quick check on Wikipedia which declared (and I quickly accepted):
joined the Prussian-led German Empire in 1871 while retaining its title of kingdom, and finally became a state of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1949.
Anything outside of Europe?
Japan, tibet, mongolia, iran, ethiopia, mali, kongo, thailand
Holy fuck. I can’t tell if they are a troll or not. Reading that is infuriatingly stupid. No wonder America is in the shemozzle it is now, this idiocy and lack of critical thinking is far too common over there!
Pleak times for being a troll. Nobody understands anymore if you are only dumb or provoking.
I’ve also heard the right say that America is the best and youngest country. Like they seriously think they are the most recent country to be formed.
They also think that America is #1 despite being the “youngest” makes them even extra good.
Americans don’t have the mental capacity to look beyond their borders.
I dunno, I’m pretty sure Japan is older.
Depends what you define as nation. Modern day Japan is only 157 years old since the Meiji Restoration started in 1868.
Like the US will still exist after the American empire collapses but sure as hell not in it’s current form.
You could argue that modern Japan only exists since WWII. The major changes required after losing in WWII majorly changed the country.
You could also argue that the US is a new nation since the Civil War, so it’s 160ish years old. If you ignore the civil war, what about when various states were added? Does the fact they were added gradually rather than all at once mean it’s the same country? It’s hard to argue that a country that was founded on the idea that all land-owning white males should get to vote is really the same as one that in 2022 believed that any citizen of any race or sex over the age of 18 should get a vote. Though, I suppose in some ways 2025 USA is showing it’s still the same country as 1776 USA.
It’s all pretty arbitrary though. What defines the start and end of a country? Does changing names count? Does changing borders? How radically does a government have to change to mean it’s a new country? How radically do founding documents need to be changed? I guess it’s the Country of Theseus. When is it no longer the same one?
Then the US can only count since the civil war 🤷♂️ Or maybe since Hawaii’s invasion (1959).
I don’t consider different eras as different nations though. I think that’s splitting too many hairs. I see a nation as a country that is generally united and governed by a leading entity.
Going back to the Japan example, I would consider them a nation when all the clans were united under one rule. Same with UK, India, Thailand etc.
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Even if this were true, this would be anthropic reasoning, which is always suspect. The belief that the present, the here and now, cannot be exceptional will always overlook examples where it is exceptional.
We live in interesting times.
Does this person not understand how dates work?
I assume they are talking about the US government being one of the longest running continuous systems of government.
Even that isnt true.
If we talk overall after 0 AD then the HRE would probably take the reign If overall with no time, egypts, inka and romans probably will top that(i have no idea how old the inkas are)
Let us never change! /s
This person doesn’t understand how books work. Calendars & history? doubt…
So, yeah, that first person is a dumb-ass, but that second comment doesn’t really prove anything. I live in a 400 year-old town in this 250 year-old country,
The first statement is just so stupid, the second is just a dunk because it didn’t need to be rebutted.
Yeah, we have bars in the USA that predate the founding of the country as well. White Horse Tavern in Newport, Rhode Island had been operating since 1673.
Jean Lafitte in Exile. Oldest gay bar in the US, formed long before the US existed.
Yeah, I’m in Massachusetts, and you can drive to any town on the North Shore and find houses with plaques dating them to the late-sixteen or early-seventeen hundreds. They’re not even landmarks, they’re just someone’s house.
I’m pretty sure the Scandinavian countries are older than counting years with four digits.
Sweden has technically only existed since 1523 when we got our independance from Denmark. Norway has been under both Sweden and Denmark for numerous years until 1905 when the Swedish-Norwegian union ended. Denmark on the other hand has existed atleast since 863 as that is the first time it is mentioned. So it depends on how you count.
the u.s. is ‘young’, relative to the world stage, this is true; but its constitution is among the oldest in the world… and it is starting to show its age.
It was “showing its age” a not long after it was made. Two years later the French based their first written constution on the US one. Then other nations followed suit over the years and wanted their own, and they already thought the French one was the better option as a starting point.
In fairness, given that the French are currently on their fifth attempt at a republic, the other nations were arguably wrong.
I’d say if you measure success by being able to change and try again instead of trying to keep a dead thing alive then maybe they were right
Thomas Jefferson believed the constitution should be a living document.
“let us provide in our constitution for its revision at stated periods. What these periods should be, nature herself indicates”
Nature itself dictates so through the length of a generation: If the constitution outlives human, we end up being ruled by the dead rather than by the living, as a democracy presupposes.
One could assume this would mean that they should last a lifetime, but in a letter to James Madison, Jefferson expresses the belief that each generation have the right to their own:
Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right
This was the ideas of a central founding father of American democracy. Yet today, authoritarian tools in the supreme court are using their perceived legislative intent of the founding fatgers to justify all kinds of fucked up shit. The intent of the founding fathers was that the nation should move the fuck on and not be stuck in the past.
They inspired a lot of longer lasting constitutions in other countries
Yeah, this is a misunderstanding among conservatives. Our legal system and government structure is woefully outdated, but our country is really young.
It’s like a teen athlete being really proud that he has the oldest sneakers of all the competitors.
Worse, it’s like a teen athlete being really proud that he has the world record for best stickballer, so he drops out of school to play stickball full time.
Then when everybody else wants to play an actual sport with actual rules where people wear helmets and don’t die, suddenly the teen starts starts swinging his stick through people’s windows and at people’s heads.
Because other countries modernize it. Well America worships it as a god. Even though it has been changed before.
Constitutionalism is a new idea. Pioneered by America. Of course America will have the oldest until it collapses.
England? If we talk about nations that became part of other nations, venice, lots of former city states in germany are even older
