• RageAgainstTheRich@lemmy.world
    2·
    2 days ago

    Something i have brought up before as an example is when i was in elementary school and high school, i was bullied very very badly. They would say horrific things and beat me up. This happened for almost 10 years. Everyone always told me “ignore them. Be the bigger person.”, “if you hit them, you are just as bad.”, “if you ignore them, they will stop.”, “have you asked them to stop bullying you?”.

    Teachers would constantly make excuses and ignore the bullies. Because if they said something about it, the whole class would lie and say i did something to deserve it. I never did anything because i was terrified.

    One day i got jumped again after school by one of them and i snapped. I beat the everliving fuck out of him. The last punch was straight to the throat and he struggled to breath.

    Not a single person in the class bullied me ever again. Not a single word was said to me from that day on.

    My point is that asking bullies and fascists nicely to stop, does not work. They are not playing according to the rules. We are currently “fighting” them with the assumption they have morals and will stop if we firmly tell them to. Did the protest annoy trump? 100%. Probably spend the entire night annoyed. Is he rethinking his fascist plans? Absolutely not.

    I do think the protests are beautiful to see. So much solidarity and love. Its amazing to see with our own eyes that our side is MASSIVE. and that the right does not have nearly as much people as they pretend they do.

    But i also know it won’t change but. Trump is not going to leave. He will not stop advancing his fascist plans. ICE continues their gestapo bullshit. LGBT and womens rights continue to be taken away.

    It’s a beautiful morale boost. But sadly that is all it is.

    Sorry for the rant. I do love seeing the protests and i really have so much respect for the people out on the streets. But i don’t think much, if anything, will change.

  • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
    521·
    7 days ago

    But in condemning violence it would be an act of irresponsibility not to be as strong in condemning the conditions in our society that cause people to feel so angry that they have no alternative but to engage in riots. What we must see is that a riot is the language of the unheard.

    What is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last 10 or 12 years. It’s failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. It has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity.

    • MLK Jr
  • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
    16·
    6 days ago

    Peaceful protest or “sitting it out” is when you have hope to last longer than the current crisis.

    The current crisis, at least in the US, is not going to vanish that quickly. The real crisis is the dropping wages, and that’s not gonna revert much. Socialism or barbarism!

  • fodor@lemmy.zip
    14·
    7 days ago

    Well yeah. It’s possible for peaceful protests to work, but let’s look at history. In reality, the pigs are going to get violent regardless of what anyone does, the national guard will be called out and they’re going to use tear gas because their bosses want them to, and despite the fear of injury or death, large groups of people will keep working to make things better.

    This is guaranteed to occur. For good or bad, whatever, it will happen. So let’s stop worrying about certain outcomes and move our focus to the uncertain things.

  • VasovagalSyncope@lemmy.world
    7·
    6 days ago

    The only police reform we have seen in 15 years has been as the result of BLM violent protests.

    Violent protest got you every single right you have.

    It’s historically the only way slaves and the poor have ever improved their lives.

    Shut the fuck up

  • FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
    13·
    7 days ago

    Absolutely right. Even Gavin Newsome is doing nothing but threatening to file a lawsuit. Buncha goddamn pussies. There is only ONE way to deal with Nazis and it isnt bEiNg pEaCeFuL

      • FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
        7·
        7 days ago

        It is absolutely right to use direct action against the Nazis and stop trying to walk on eggshells to keep them from acting like Nazis. Nazis are gonna Nazi; you cannot appease them by being pacifists. The entire shitlib argument is fucking bullshit and is what gave us the fucking Nazis in the first place.

  • shaggy@beehaw.org
    8·
    7 days ago

    Educate me. I mean this with no hostility, and I’ll be honest about the fact that I’m not an American and am seeing this from the outside. I’m not attacking anyone and I’m not defending any one stance, because I’d like to be educated and I’m not confident my news is giving me the whole picture.

    Educate me.

    Here’s what I hear.

    • American troops (including marines) have been deployed without the governor’s consent (this sounds terrifying)
      • This has been temporarily suspended because it was a hasty move and requires the governor’s consent
    • If this turns violent then it can be considered an insurrection (or meet whatever terms required to be considered) and the insurrection act can be invoked (this sounds terrifying) (why would you encourage violence in this circumstance?)
    • I get how pacifism can be the wrong move in some circumstances, but this post sounds like it came from people wanting to stir the pot. And that’s exactly what Trump would want, right?

    Please spell it out for the rest of us. And how can I help?

    Isn’t this exactly what Trump would want? I may be missing the point here, and as an ally I don’t mean to take anyone’s energy away from far more important efforts.

    Please educate me (if you can). Please fight for your rights!

    • polyploy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      16·
      7 days ago

      When people are having members of their community kidnapped at graduation ceremonies, hearing stories of secret police trying to enter elementary schools to abduct 1st graders, that affects you. Masked agents of the state who hide their identities are routinely disappearing people, and when communities respond to protect each other from abduction, or protest these monstrous actions, the police show up to disperse them so the kidnappers can do what they came to do. They routinely attack people unprovoked.

      If you have never been to a protest where the cops decided to escalate, you cannot know how crystal clear the barbarity becomes. These cops have been pelting peaceful people with pepper balls, tear gas, concussion grenades, and baton rounds. According to a study, those “less lethal” rubber rounds permanently injure ~15% of the people hit by them. 3% are killed, eventually dying to injuries sustained.

      Here’s a video of someone being shot with one point blank for asking an officer to identify himself, who refuses to do so. Here’s a police horse being used to trample a man that is already subdued and surrounded.

      The other thing to understand is that while the outrageously ghoulish shit ICE and other state bodies have been getting up to, this situation with the police has been the status quo for a very long time. The same forces have been doing this shit to virtually every form of protest for ages. These are the same people that are responsible for the highest incarceration rate in the world, with a for-profit prison industry, and contracts to exploit incarcerated labour.

      The point I’m trying to make here is that the situation is already incredibly violent, that violence has just been normalized, and people are literally trying to protect their neighbors from being kidnapped by the state. Communities have been experiencing relentless institutional and systemic oppression for generations. Appealing to the conscience of people brutalizing and kidnapping targeted groups on behalf of the state is a fool’s errand, they clearly have none.

      Asking people to remain completely peaceful is to ask them to sit back and watch their neighbors disappear. It’s to ask them to passively watch as more people get subjected to greater levels of violence, to show up and be beaten themselves for daring to resist the expansion of fascism. Burnt Waymos and shattered glass can be replaced, rebuilt. Objects are not people, and it’s overwhelmingly cops that have been damaging people.

      I am not advocating for violence, but I think every person understands the innate urge to rebel against oppression. Whatever shape that takes, people that are not putting their bodies on the line do not get to tell those that are what to do.

      There are also people who have no choice in the matter, their bodies are on the line either way because state agents have orders to take control of them in some way or other. Before you think to tell people what they should or should not do, take a moment to ask yourself how it would sound if it was you and yours in that position.

      Beyond that, expecting that years of passivity will somehow pay off is absurd. If it worked, the situation would be getting better over time, not worse. This regime is going to escalate no matter what, it’s already deporting dissidents and shipping innocent people off to foreign concentration camps. They’re already actively trying to revoke citizenship from all sorts, unilaterally criminalizing completely law-abiding people overnight.

      We know where this road leads. Whatever actions people take to shut it down, history will be on their side.

      • shaggy@beehaw.org
        1·
        6 days ago

        My concern is that someone could bait violence too easily. Maybe this is not a conversation I can can be helpful in. I hope you all are safe! I hope you all take action to help you and others around you remain safe or find safety.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
      9·
      6 days ago

      Let me break it down very simply:

      Did you ever get bullied in school or see a bully terrorize other kids?

      Was the bully stopped by appeals for him to act nicely? Was the bully stopped by the administration? Did the bully stop beating a kid when the kid didn’t fight back?

      Yes the bully will beat another kid and then cry wolf when the kid defends itself. However the administration full well knows who the bully is and decides to side with him anyways.

      If you fight back you might loose. If you don’t fight back you will definitely loose.

      • shaggy@beehaw.org
        2·
        6 days ago

        My concern is that someone could bait violence too easily. Maybe this is not a conversation I can can be helpful in. I hope you all are safe!

    • y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      9·
      7 days ago

      Not OP but for your second bullet, the idea is that we’re getting the insurrection act or martial law pretty much no matter what because trump wants it and is looking for any excuse.

      So, if it’s going to happen anyway, why not do it on our terms?

      • shaggy@beehaw.org
        2·
        7 days ago

        That’s a pretty important point, I think, thank-you.

        • If Trump can enact the insurrection act if there’s violence… then he will encourage violence
        • I’m worried that outside actors would easily decide to do this, and this shouldn’t be a decision made by non-americans.
        • I deeply hope that the united states maintains its presence (it is a beacon)
      • shaggy@beehaw.org
        1·
        6 days ago

        This is a very scary place to be in. Do whatever you can to keep everyone around you as safe as you can. I can’t offer anything but my hope that things will get better, I’m sorry, because that means next to nothing.

        I’m watching, and the rest of the world is watching. What’s happening is not right.

  • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
    72·
    7 days ago

    Organize first, then fight.

    Most people aren’t going to risk their lives for this shithole until elections stop altogether.

    Look at past examples of revolts and civil wars. Minority factions and secessionists pretty much never win and often end up operating in ways that promote war crimes.

  • DynoNoob@lemmy.world
    25·
    6 days ago

    Does anyone think that Donnie is going to be sad if someone burns a truck? Or a Home Depot? Or an ICE officer?

    Don’t follow the provocateurs in pointless vandalism. Protest, and save the rocks to throw at the people who are directly responsible for this blatant fascism.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
      15·
      6 days ago

      A burnt truck cant be used to haul people away. An injured ICE goon can’t kidnap people.

      Not breaking random things is important. But the goons and their weapons and tools absolutely need to be broken.

      • DynoNoob@lemmy.world
        27·
        6 days ago

        True. But they have more trucks. And if you arrest/deport/shoot the people burning the trucks, there’s a chance that the trucks will eventually stop being burnt. Donnie would love to escalate this all the way to a fascist racist police state.

        Grandma’s blocking ICE arrests gives off real tank-man-of-Tiananmen-square energy, and it’s hard to justify shooting "normal americans"without looking like the fascist goons that they are. But, shooting a guy waving a Mexican flag while looting and buring down a shoe store … some might agree that it’s justified to stop this “foreign invasion” with military force.

        I can’t blame people for wanting to stop ICE from kidnapping innocent people. But, we don’t want to serve up justifications on a silver platter either.

        • Saleh@feddit.org
          9·
          6 days ago

          LAPD shot journalists who were providing live coverage of the protests.

          We are well past the point. Also serve justification for who? The notion not to serve them justifications implies that there is a sizable part of the population that would take to the streets if they see unjust police violence. We already have the unjust police violence. Now is the time to take to the streets. And taking to the streets means to not obey the dispersal orders and curfews that will be placed. Because then the protests will not be any threat to the government.