Privacy on a non-degoogled Android device is non existent. Just because only Google gets to munch on your data doesn’t equal privacy.
OK, but in terms of privacy, I can degoogle my phone by installing one app which is even in Google’s play store (Netguard).
Edit: Maybe refute instead of downvote? Netguard lets you block all apps from sending data, including all system apps and Google Play Services.I suspect the issue people have is that it is not possible for the average user to confirm that a block like that is working 100%. Seen as google control the OS they can just route their traffic around a block like that if they wish. Sending the data over 4g would mean you don’t even see it on your network traffic logs. There are a number of reviews suggesting it intermittently lets aupposedly blocked traffic through too, but the biggest issue maybe the way it works. As far as I can see, it acts as a VPN, but that means it won’t work well with other VPNs, which is another way the traffic can leak. Basically, installing an app like that doesn’t degoogle your phone at all, it just makes you feel like you’ve stopped your data leaking.
There are a number of reviews suggesting it intermittently lets aupposedly blocked traffic through too
Do you have a link for me? The only thing I could find was this:
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/206802/why-network-activity-is-detected-from-apps-after-vpn-firewall-blocks-themWhich looks like the person who “detected” the traffic doesn’t understand the OSI model.
In my own exeriments, I never detected any leaking data.Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a way to link to a filtered set of reviews on the play store, but If you go to the store, find the app, go to the reviews and filter by 1 star you’ll see them. Some of them just don’t understand how the app works, as you say, but there are a number that are harder to ignore. The thing ism if it is acting as a pseudo VPN, it could easily leak when the OS suspends it (for power saving, switching network modes or the like). Honestly, I haven’t tested it, it doesn’t do what I need (I’m on another VPN a lot of the time), and I wouldn’t trust it very far myself, but if it does what you need, that’s what matters.
Thanks for the reply. I’ve now read through all 1 star reviews on the play store and am pretty confident that all of them have no idea what they’re talking about. Various popup messages during installation and use of the app explain in simple terms how to avoid all the issues these users were facing.
I personally observe with my own eyes many many times where Android turns off Adguard’s VPN for a split second when doing various Google things like receiving messages in Google Messages.
I haven’t been able to pinpoint it but my observation is that the disconnect/reconnect happens when a connection is trying to be made (ex. RCS message incoming), and I suspect Android is dropping the VPN to make its own connection. Sounds paranoid, but I’ve been carefully watching it happen for a long while.
Same with sensors, camera and microphone. Core system services will always have the privilege to override your permissions.
Developer Options allow you to fully(?) disable these, but even then, your dialer app for example will have perfect access to your microphone.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have it be like that in case of an emergency, but it does make you think.
Maybe read up on their FAQ (1)?
Sorry, but I don’t understand your comment. Whose FAQ? Do you have a link or would like to explain what you mean?
No sorry - if you want to claim knowledge without even checking their FAQ I’m fine with that.
Ok, if you won’t even tell me whose FAQ you’re talking about then I don’t care about your opinion anyway.
I’m not sure if you’re dense or just pretending. You talk about a piece of software and I refer to their faq. I’m sure you have researched your claims and read up on this software….
OK I’m now assuming you talk about Netguard’s FAQ, not some others from Google, Android or Apple (all of which would have been equally likely in the context of this thread). Yes, I’ve read them. I’ve also read all the 1 star reviews of the app. I know about the apps limitations and am still confident it blocks Google from spying on me. Now what?
This meme is brought to you by someone who has no clue what iOS can do.
Can you elaborate?
iOS has privacy features built in. It has iCloud private relay which is essentially a VPN, and has dynamic IP and MAC addresses to limit tracking. You can also install profiles to modify your DNS however you want, just like on android without a jailbreak.
I’m trying to that it is easier to be more private on android by setting methods such as DNS66. dns66 acts as a VPN so It can’t be blocked by network providers. it is hard to setup measures to protect you privacy on ios and there are not many reliable methods in place on IOS without jailbreaking
You don’t have to jailbreak an iOS device for privacy feature like DNS profiles, limited IP and MAC address tracking, and VPN routing of traffic.
u can do literally the same thing with AdGuard pro or lockdown for iOS
Ik that but I wonder what the person that comment meant. BTW, have a look at rethinkDNS (You can combine it with dnscrypt either)
Can iOS be bootloader unlocked? Can it be rooted?
Probably - but not as easy as your android device. Ask the black hats if they prefer their victim on iOS or android - it should help identify the most insecure device.
An OS is as secure as the user. Android gives the user freedom while iOS is very locked down
No - that would only be true if both OS are equally secure in the first place. No matter how you behave you are limited by that. So equal behaviour on each system does not yield the same result.
Freedom is not security or privacy, but sure you (or someone else) can change your dialer on android and that can’t be done on iOS.
Freedom is not security or privacy, but sure you (or someone else) can change your dialer on android and that can’t be done on iOS.
Technically you’re right, but I guess op meant that that freedom let you degoogle the device pretty easily, which turns it so much more private.
Talking about privacy on stock OSs is a waste of time because we all know both Google and Apple are getting lots of data from their avg user.
I’m not sure you can compare the is to each other. It’s like comparing Ubuntu to Windows and say they are equal as you can demicrosoft windows.
I’m not sure you can compare apple to Google either. One gives away their os for free and make their money from user data, the other charge their users silly amounts and make their money from devices and cuts of app publisher’s sales. To me that’s a big difference.
As any user can install an app that “takes over your internets” without rooting there’s only trust keeping other apps from doing the same. Customisation comes at a cost, and many people don’t understand that.I’m not sure you can compare the is to each other. It’s like comparing Ubuntu to Windows and say they are equal as you can demicrosoft windows.
That’s simply not true. You can install either Linux or Windows on your Desktop, but when you buy a phone you basically stuck with the OS. (You can flash LineageOS but it’ll still be android)
I’m not sure you can compare apple to Google either. One gives away their os for free and make their money from user data,
Not sure it’s true either, I heard that companies have to pay for Google for putting Google services on their smartphone lines. I might edit to add a source later.
As any user can install an app that “takes over your internets” without rooting there’s only trust keeping other apps from doing the same.
But when it’s open source and reviewed, while being backed up by bodies like mozzila (looking at you rethinkDNS), it’s way better than your other options. Also, if you don’t trust and app just don’t use it? Web versions are good enough for most cases. And there you have Mull (hardened ff for android) with uBO to protect you.
Apple does still spy on the users (like scanning their files to pretect the children)
Technically you’re right, but I guess op meant that that freedom let you degoogle the device pretty easily, which turns it so much more private.
That is what I meant
Technically that would make it expressly LESS secure. Is that your aim?
Regarding privacy, Apple does end to end on the vast majority of their services. Their servers are set up using a unique, physical key, that is then broken so once running, no one can get to the data.
Apps are sandboxed. Most every sensor or feature is gated behind a user setting to allow/deny.
But the most critical, Apple is a hardware company. The lions share of profits come from hardware. Google is an ad service/data manager. Probably one of the biggest reasons they dove right to amassing market share by licensing the OS to everyone outside Apple. It certainly helps their vested interests.
Trust whomever you like, but most things are true to their nature. Whether you want to believe it or not.
If you root a phone then you can remove alot of insecurities and also if you unlock the bootloader you can install something more secure like calyxOS
If you root your phone you can go both ways and give your security a good night kiss. It is important what kind of phone it is as well. Android devices are a wild world where you can stop getting any updates last week. Also, being able to unlock bootoader does not mean you will get the ability to install any rom you want. Usually this only counts for more expensive devices. Otherwise you might be lucky to get a rom maintained by one guy from India who is taking care of 5 other roms.
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Privacy on graphene os
I’m patiently waiting for my 4th Pixel 5A RMA since they love frying motherboards outta nowhere but damn once you get grapheneos going it really is something else
It makes the stock pixel seem so bloated with all the non-removable google apps. Like why can’t I remove the pixel buds app?
I never had any issues with the motherboard on my 5A, but I gave up on it after destroying the screen twice. I have a 6 now but it’s annoyingly large, top heavy, and I have to keep it on LTE only mode to have decent battery life.
I had similar argument in reddit today , people talk about bloat but ignore all the Google bloat, I don’t want to use Google apps, there are better alternatives out there.
I’m running Paranoid Android on my mi 11x . better than stock miui though I need GM’s and few Google stuffs for some peculiar apps to work.
does changing ur os void ur warranty?
Ehhh, technically but its hard for them to tell if your able to switch back before turning it in. And if it doesn’t boot then well… It’s not going to be much of an issue then. Also it is a bit legally grey if companies can void you warrenty solely for installing a custom ROM.
I know with OnePlus, they wipe your phone right out the gate when you send it in for repairs. I’ve had mine fixed twice and never had an issue.
Oneplus allows it in its warranty I believe
They provide, or at least used to provide, ROMs of both Oxygen and Hydrogen OSes to flash at your leisure. Not 100% what the deal is in the new OPPO-ish world.
Depends on the brand. Xiaomi will (in most cases) service the phone even if the bootloader was unlocked and os changed, you just need to restore it to stock state. I haven’t personally tried this, but I heard multiple stories confirming this.
It shouldn’t but, ya know capitalism
I rooted mine, messed with custom ROMs, bricked it and sent it in.
They honored the warranty and sent it back with a newer Android version than was installed originally, or available through updates :)
IOS has DNS profiles.
Yeah, OP has no clue if they think privacy is better on Android.
Saying privacy is better on Android is literally insane, I can’t think of a less private OS (talking about the version installed by manufacturers). Even Windows has some catching up to do to be as invasive.
For wifi, I was pleasantly surprised that I could set a custom DNS on iOS while still using DHCP for other settings. Can only set DNS on Android if I use manual IP (or just use Wireguard).
Edit: not true, Android can have custom DNS with DHCP, see below.
I don’t think that’s true, Android has a setting called “Private DNS” that allows you to set a custom DNS while using DHCP. I’m using it right now.
Ah, TIL! I was looking for that setting in the WiFi settings, since I only wanted it on one access point (to avoid loopback NAT issues).
Does iOS have button to disable camera and mic access all together?
The operating system that Google created to collect your data is secure? Not unless you get rid of all the Google services.
Don’t confuse privacy and security. Android is a very secure system.
Android is AOSP, it has no Google at all. Don’t confuse OEM ROMs and Android Open Source Project. As someone with GrapheneOS I can only laugh when someone calls iOS more private
I don’t confuse anything. All flavours of Android are secure systems, but that doesn’t mean they’re all private.
I definitely agree with you that Graphene is more private than iOS, which is probably more private than most OEM Android systems out there.
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So, originally I simply stated that privacy and security aren’t the same, and that Android as a whole is very secure.
And from this, you somehow extrapolated that I don’t know the difference between AOSP and OEM Systems?
Enlighten me.
true, but most think of oem roms when they hear android
When I hear Android, I think of Android. And that word encompasses everything imo. That’s how most people use the word in my experience.
If someone means AOSP specifically, they’ll say AOSP
exactly. i think the term ‘android’ should be used as an umbrella term only, like linux.
“im running linux”
yeah but what distro? same with android
Exactly, but it’s inexcusable when a tech discussion happens. You either know it, or dare to shut up (not you precisely, though). Don’t be a hypocrite, only facts.
Yes yes you are special and precious.
AOSP has no Google at all
…? dafuq u smoking?
Android is a very secure system
Except for the ridiculously powerful permissions you need to give most system-type apps in order for them to function (i.e. read and paint over all screen content) because the accessibility APIs are shit, and password manager APIs too fragmented to be useful.
Sometimes the policy of “you will use our API and you will be happy” is actually beneficial for users.
It has its flaws, like any other system. But it is a lot more secure ootb than most peoples’ Windows installation, for example.
Is that a low bar to clear? Yeah, I guess. But it clears it by quite a margin.
The whiplash between posts on Lemmy is so great.
Everyone seems to hate google and how invasive they are while simultaneously simping for google’s mobile OS
This shit is so stupid.
If one person believes one thing and another person believes the opposite, that doesn’t mean they’re hypocrites. That means there isn’t a consensus. Besides, android can be better than iOS and deserving of criticism at the same time.
Or maybe people hate Google ruining the internet AND realise that iOS is still much worse than Android? The two things are in no way mutually exclusive unless you view the world as a tribal binary.
Android can be whatever a dedicated community wants it to be, since it’s open source at its AOSP core.
I love AOSP, but I hate what Google does with it. Or most other manufacturers, for that matter.
Chromium is open source, too, but so many projects putting all their eggs in the same basket gives Google carte blanche to push any standard they want as a new de-facto standard before the rest of us can decide on whether it’s ready or needs changes or is just bad.
If you can’t or don’t want to root the phone and install your own de-Googled Android rom then you could get an Android phone designed for mainland China, which will come with all of the Google stuff already removed.
Because I’d trust anything Chinese/for China more than I’d trust google.
I mean, what’s Xi Jinping gonna do with your data? If you’re not a higher up in the defense industry then you really have nothing to lose from a hypothetical Chinese government backdoor into your phone (an American government backdoor, on the other hand, is extremely threatening to you as the USG has shown time and again that if you become a “person of interest” for any reason they can and will build a spurious case against you).
Ahh yes the ol’ “the (Chinese) government doesn’t have any reason to want my data.” You know this is what some people use to deflect the concept of privacy because they have got nothing to hide, right?
Yikes, that’s an ugly looking turn of phrase. I guess I’m blocking another racist.
Holy shit lmao.
It’s no secret that the Chinese government controls everything Chinese companies produce. If I’m using any digital item made in China I assume it sends whatever info it can on me back to China. This is nothing to do with Chinese people and everything to do with its authoritarian government.
Touch some grass and learn the concept of nuance you twat.
Touch some grass and learn the concept of nuance you twat.
They’re from hexbear, you’ll have better luck telling fire to be wet
That makes a bunch of sense.
What a fuckin loser
shut up
No u
Android is less secure then apple tbh its so bloated with Google crap
I don’t see any bloat on my lineageOS phone.
The average android user doesn’t have the ability to use lineageos. None of the android phones in my home even have support. So its not really a fair to talk about lineage when comparing android to iOS.
I could be wrong, but doesn’t lineageos have problems accessing banking apps since its missing some kind of DRM?
Maybe this I’d a solved issue at this point.
Well yeah but from where I see it, I can choose thàe phone I buy, so I choose a supported one.
Also, I’m using microg and most apps work. But I mostly use the website anyway so uBO step in too.
Not custom os stock android
You can’t even install DNS66 from the play store because Google bans apps that block ads. This meme is way off the mark and I’m and android fanboy.
If you are a android user that thinks the only source of apps is google play store, you aren’t a real android user
The meme didn’t mention the play store, anyone actually concerned with this stuff likely also is savvy enough to install apps without the play store.
You can still install it from fdroid or github. And there’s an alternative called PersonalDNSFilter if you really wanted an app from the play store.
You can get it off f-droid
Lol me who just installed nextDNS from the play store
Do you know you can just use the private dns option if you are on Android > 9. I use nextdns too.
Yeah I know :) NextDNS is great!
This is such a brain dead take. You cannot compare an OS from one developer to a device from another unspecified manufacturer with no context. No one would claim that a Samsung phone is more private than an iPhone, regardless of the “potential” in the context of degoogling, or the niche privacy switch that’s present on less than 1/10,000 Android devices sold.
Yeah its much more fair to compare pixel devices to iphones. And it still matters if you install a custom rom onto it or not. In my use case yes a pixel is more secure but a lot of people who just go with the out if the box experience may be safer with apple.
Regular Android < iOS < Custom ROM
Stock android ain’t to bad
It’s almost impossible to buy a phone with plain android on it. Google’s version on the pixel is nice to use, but a privacy nightmare
Custom rom maintained by Pakalu Papito who does not even have original device? World is not that simple.
Install From Dev’s who make userbuilds with actual devices. Who said to install roms from a random dev.
Button to disable all sensors? Which phone has this?
My phone has it.
And how can we be sure it’s doing what it says? It’s software, on most phones you don’t control software that is running above apps layer.
Especially if it’s straight out of China. I just kicked back a fake 11 tablet that was actually 7. The OP advice is only useful if you’re running a rom that you can at least audit the source of.
I don’t know what phone they’re talking about, but PinePhone disables sensors via hardware kill switches, i.e. nothing on the phone can use the sensors because they’re physically not connected anymore.
Try rotating the screen or using the camera
That just proves that you can’t use the sensors.
Apps can have denied permission from the system, but the operating system can toggle it back for itself or just lie to you.
The only defence agains manufacturer is having free software OS. And the only way against third-party malware are hardware switches.
Even something as degoogled as DivestOS will override your permissions and sensor settings to make the dialer app work in all circumstances. So who knows what proprietary apps that many people need might exploit this possibility.
Like you say, unless you physically disconnect the hardware, you can never now.
That’s true, but you can always flash Lineage OS or just stock AOSP if there’s a version for your device
Librem phone has physical switches to turn off shit.
Lol
At least i dont have to (cant) use chromium on iOs.
Didn’t google only recently get the ability to block apps access to stuff like your camera, microphone, files etc? That was in iOS over a decade ago
No, the app permissions prompts for those things have been around forever, they aren’t remotely new.
Its just now possible to turn it off for all apps with one swipe and on click. Like I know WhatsApp need Microphone access for voicemail, but I can turn off the access for all apps with one click and turn it one for all apps with access when I need it
No, its been there for about the same time ios. A few years ago now they changed it so that the permissions are asked for from inside the app (when X is used) instead of when installing if that is what you are thinking about
Pretty accurate, though google does collect a lot of data…
