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- unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
- cross-posted to:
- unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
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I don’t see the issue with thin models, or that people would rather look at them. What should be banned is retouching the images to the point of being unrealistic.
That’s good news.
Can we also ban ads with obese people in them, too?
There are two ends to the unhealthy weight spectrum, so it’s not right that only one is being targeted.
And then we ban the rest of the ads! I like it. Write that down.
Do you have any examples of ads that you would be in favor of banning?
Honestly, no, because I block all ads… and have no reason to see fashion ads at all.
Buy if I recall correctly, there have been several beauty brands that have overweight models and then frame it as “perfect” or something like that.
Like like with malnurished models, promoting obesity as “perfect” is damaging to anyone influenced by the marketing, especially teens.
I get their inclusion and body positivity mission, but neither obesity or severe malnutrition should be promoted as anything but unhealthy.
Do you have any evidence that people are striving to be obese because of these adverts? I’d rather not have people call for laws based on vibes. Especially your shitty vibes.
While one might struggle to find evidence that people are striving to become obese due to these ads, I think, these ads normalize (or at least, try to normalize) obesity which might lead to obese people not wanting to seek help (medical or otherwise) or might even discourage obese people from trying a healthier lifestyle.
The reason we target advertisements in this way is because they’re saying “this is what you need to look like” which encourages young women to starve themselves as they strive to be size 4. This is a separate issue to merely “normalising” things. If you’re concerned with normalisation of obesity, why are you focusing on adverts and not, say, The Simpsons or Family Guy?
Because Homer struggles with it and tries to lose weight and the clothing industry marketing was unapologetic adiposity jingoism for a few years before us fascism overcorrected with Sweeney’s geans.
Do you have any evidence that people are striving to be obese because of these adverts?
Yes, there is evidence. For example, this paper from 2015.
I wouldn’t say they are “striving” to be obese, but conceding to an unhealthy weight is objectively just as bad.
So no, then
No to “striving to be obese”, yes to “being ok with staying obese.”
Does that matter if the end result is people still being unhealthy because of the messaging in these ads?
Well the law in question here wasn’t made because ads were normalising being a skeleton. The law was made because people were starving themselves on purpose to become like that. The adverts set an unrealistic beauty standard and women were becoming malnourished trying to reach it. So yes it matters. It’s literally why the law was created years ago.
Making an argument about “normalising” unhealthiness is a whole other ball game.
False equivalence.
Obese is not a fashion standard people pursue, being extremely thin is.It is not just about being unhealthy, it’s about not setting unhealthy standards.
a fashion standard people pursue, being extremely thin is.
I strongly disagree.
Standard people want to look healthy, fit, and maybe have some muscle. You know, the stuff that the majority would say brings sex appeal.
But nobody wants to look like a sad, malnourished bonerack, unless they have an eating disorder. I’d argue that most people find the look of gauntness, protruding bones, no muscle, etc. to be unflattering and quite disgusting. There are probably studies on this, I haven’t looked.
The issue is that the fashion industry seems to like this look, and people with eating disorders find validation in that. It is a terrible cycle, no denying that.
That does beg the question, though: why not set the standard by having fit people wear your clothing? Why malnourished and sickly? Only a tiny fraction of the population has an eating disorder that causes them to be underweight, and I doubt very much that these companies are making all their profits off them.
It is not just about being unhealthy, it’s about not setting unhealthy standards.
I agree, which is why we should not be normalizing obesity, one of the top causes of death and morbidity, in advertisements. This isn’t an opinion, I already linked a study showing that ads, even when intended to be positive, negatively affect obese people due to the normalization of this unhealthy standard.
But nobody wants to look like a sad, malnourished bonerack
That is more common than you are probably aware of. Of course they don’t see it that way, they only see themselves as too big, even when they are far from it.
Unfortunately many clothes designers prefer models that are basically clothes racks. This is AFAIK the reason the standards have become so unhealthy they need to be regulated.
There are plenty horror stories about fashion houses that pressure their models to lose weight, and even provide drugs to endure not eating, despite they are already underweight. So there is 100% a widespread unhealthy attitude towards weight in the fashion industry, that needs to be regulated. The same is not the case for being fat that I have ever heard about.we should not be normalizing obesity
Absolutely, but there also needs to be the possibility for clothes brands that specialize in clothing for “big” people to show their products in a reasonable way.
It can be very difficult for both overweight and even just tall women to find clothes that fit well. I don’t think banning advertising that helps anybody.
It’s very obviously not either a fashion or beauty ideal.
This is not normally nearly as much a problem for thin people. Although it can be for very small women too, I’ve heard of some that have to buy clothes and shoes for Children.So there is 100% an unhealthy attitude towards weight in the fashion industry, that needs to be regulated.
In fairness, the fashion industry is a circus, almost literally. The stuff you see on the runway is so ridiculous that they might as well simply be costumes and not clothes. And the models, while they do suffer real consequences, are forced to have an unhealthy look to fit the character they play in this circus.
I would much rather see positive education into how to actually be fit and healthy, so that teens have no reason to look at these circus performers as a template.
but there also needs to be the possibility for clothes brands that specialize in clothing for “big” people to show their products in a reasonable way.
Absolutely. The reality is, people come in all different shapes and sizes, so there’s a realistic expectation that they’ll still need to buy clothes. But the normalization of super heavy (or super skinny) needs to go away.
The fashion industry is so much more than just the “circus” you mention. That is just the top of the iceberg. These standards have also spread to more common fashion, advertising clothes for ordinary people.
I would much rather see positive education into how to actually be fit and healthy, so that teens have no reason to look at these circus performers as a template.
If there’s a method for that, that actually works, that would be great.
These standards have also spread to more common fashion, advertising clothes for ordinary people.
No doubt.
If there’s a method for that, that actually works, that would be great.
First, block and avoid ads. They are poison to the mind. Dropping social media is also strongly suggested.
It’s hard to not fall prey to marketing companies if ads surround you on a daily basis, and I can’t honestly imagine how difficult it must be for any teen who uses the internet or apps unfiltered. It’s a losing battle if those influences aren’t dealt with first.
I have all ads blocked, I never see ads in my everyday life, not on TV, not on my phone or on my computer, and not on radio. I’m personally 99.9% ad free.
But the only reason that’s possible, is because we are a tiny minority, probably about 90% of people don’t care enough or don’t know how to get around the advertising.To do that for everybody would be a major shift for society, that is not possible to do without a strong legal framework to achieve it, something that is not at all realistic in the current political situation in any place in the world.
So I think for now, the best we can do, is to regulate very thin models in the situation we are debating here.
Bad comparision since the obese look is not something that young people strife for when they see an ad showing an obese person.
Normalising obesity makes it seem like less of a problem. It should not be normal to be so unhealthy that one is obese, let alone nearly half the country.
But I know that absolutely nothing will be done to improve the quality of life for people by our current government, and quality of life is a big factor in obesity as food is an easy comfort. So even if obese people were no longer shown in adverts etc, it would only mean that obese models and actors would get fewer roles.
What’s with all the stupid comments here?
She is obviously unhealthily thin, and of course she is allowed to be thin.
What is not allowed, and shouldn’t be anywhere, is to idealize such extreme unhealthy standards in advertisements, and particularly not as a “fashion statement”.Edit PS:
The reason it is banned in some places, and should be banned, is that it sets an unhealthy standard, and causes eating disorders among especially teenager girls. It’s basically for the same reason that advertising tobacco is illegal in most places.So by that logic we should ban all ads featuring fat people too?
You have to compare this to being obese, not simply being fat, that girl is not simply slim, she is extremely thin bordering on anorexic.
So no, and the reason it is banned in some places and should be in all, is that it causes eating disorders especially among teenage girls that try to become unhealthily thin to live up to an impossible fashion ideal.
There is no similar fashion ideal for being obese. But if hypothetically there was, and it caused a similar effect, it should also hypothetically be illegal to use obese models.
I’m that thin too. Do you know how fucking tired I am of hearing about how I’m “bordering on anorexic”? Shut the fuck up, I probably eat more than you. You’re right, there are a lot of stupid comments in here, as you put it. But they all sound like you. Reread your comments with the new understanding that there are thin people reading them too.
This is just a bunch of fat people collectively saying ‘ew you should eat more’ and it’s gross.
Seriously. This was my take too. It’s gross that people are calling a thin person that they know nothing about “unhealthy”.
This assumption that young women are so silly and impressionable that they can’t be allowed to see thin women modelling clothes because they might be inspired to become dangerously underweight, is really starting to annoy me.
Yes having only very thin women modelling in adverts is bad, but this isn’t bad because ‘fashion obsessed girls are so dumb they’re gonna stop eating if they see this’, it’s bad because not all women are thin, and advertising only with the thinnest narrows the market you appeal to.
And if eating disorders in young women were really such a big worry for the government, surely they would instead fund nhs mental health services properly to make getting help for disordered eating and the issues which cause it (here’s a hint, it’s not fashion), much easier and safer to access?
But no, this is not what is being done, they’re banning adverts with thin models instead.
Starmer really doesn’t like women it seems. Too thin and you’re stupid and impressionable and promote mental illness by existing, too many children and you’re a scrounger who doesn’t deserve government support, lacking an extra X chromosome and you’re banned from public loos and refused healthcare.
Why do I have to compare this to being obese? What metric are you using that implies
(obese == skinny) > fat?Very obviously for similar extreme in the physical condition.
So its only extremist based? What about body building?
Whataboutism?
You could say what about lots of things, but what about arguing your case?
Body building is not at all within a similar category of fashion magazines setting an unhealthy standard as for being thin.Mention One high end fashion company that uses extreme body builders for their models.
Body building is a sport, being thin is not a sport.Although body building is also extreme, it is a different category and a different debate.
It’s not whataboutism - just trying to understand your point of view how skinny is worse than fat when objectively speaking they both carry similar health risk, I’d even argue that until you get old skinny is still healthier than fat. So clearly you’re not referring to the health metric - what is it then?
You just keep patching your thought process with goal post movement. First it’s health, then it’s extreme mindset, now it’s “sport” whatever that means?
Either way cleaely you haven’t formed a steong position here and as someone who’s been friends with many people who are naturally skinny and got bullied for it I’d say that you’re really missing something here.
Why do you say she’s obviously unhealthily thin? Per the article:
both models in question had medical certification proving they were in good health when the pictures were taken.
The only evidence the article gives to there unhealthiness is the protruding collarbone. As someone who is naturally very thin I can assure you that you can be healthy and have a protruding collarbone.
I understand ads are setting beauty standards that are unachievable for a lot of girls and women which causes a lot of problems, but I don’t think ths solution is to mark certain body shapes as unhealthy and ban them, there is no universal healthy body shape, what is healthy for some is unhealthy for others. This isn’t even getting into issues of race and other unchangeable attributes someone else might have and feel bad for not matching a standard. The solution is to ban fashion advertising in general, or at least to teenage girls, so you don’t have to deal with these issues.
Trump also has stellar health certificates despite being obese, when they are obviously false, why should I give a shit about a piece of paper where you can be paid to write anything?
I did not make my conclusion based on the wording in the article, but based on the pictures. And 2 things stood out to me, her sunken eyes, and her very thin legs.
Regarding the protruding collarbone, it’s not just protruding which I agree can be normal, but hers is extremely protruding.
She may be built that way maybe having some fat burning gene or something, but she is still extremely thin, and using that kind of models to depict what is fashionable, has been very well documented to be harmful to especially teenage girls and cause eating disorders.
Welcome to the internet. Lemmy is better than a lot of places but we’ve still got people who need to be deprogrammed and/or don’t understand nuance.
In this instance, there seem to be people that believe pushing an unrealistic beauty standard on young people is some monumental effort to curb obesity or that tackling that problem is promoting obesity.
And just bc I’m on the internet and it’s expected that I have no nuance, I’ll go ahead and guess it’s a bunch of dudes that think they know what’s best for women. Real, “I’m a feminist bc I protect them” types.
You’re going to need to add “plus size” models to stay consistent.
Plus size models are not becoming a problem as a fashion statement, which is contrary to unhealthily thin models.
And using plus size models serve the purpose of showing the clothes are actually available in those sizes, which they often are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have
Why is the description a snippet of Rule 3?
UK try to go a day without banning something challenge: impossible
Got a liocense for that physique
America just deports you to el Salvador without due process instead.
In America you have the license but the officer can’t read so you’re under arrest (shot in self defense) anyway
Dated a Jamaican woman back in the day, 5’10", maybe 110lbs, perfectly healthy, did nothing to keep her weight down. People can be fine looking like this model.
This story seems so odd to me, like crazy overreach in service of a fine goal. Meh, what do I know. Fat people were rare when I was young. What’s now considered “skinny” was perfectly normal in the last century.
In the early 1960s, roughly 13% of people were considered obese by Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines. Recent figures suggest that a current national obesity rate closer to 43%.
In addition, nearly 10% of all Americans were morbidly obese during the 2017–2018 survey, compared to less than 1% in 1960–1962. Childhood obesity rates tripled from 5% in the early 1970s to more than 19% by March 2020.
https://usafacts.org/articles/obesity-rate-nearly-triples-united-states-over-last-50-years/
crazy overreach in service of a fine goal
The UK
Is anyone surprised? That’s their MO.
LOL, the cops over there all proud of their pocket knife angel.
I used to be similar to your ex, and stuff like in this post is why I wore a t-shirt to the pool until I was like 20. Not saying I had it as bad as a fat person, but body shaming the other end of the spectrum ain’t it either.
LOL, think you misread me or misstated. You were tall and thin as a rail but had to hide that at the pool? 😆
I do not wish to shame anyone. I merely want to scream to the heavens that where we are at is not normal or sane.
What if the same stats showed such a rise in alcoholism? Wouldn’t we find that to be a major problem? Wouldn’t we be questioning the impact on societal health? Wouldn’t we be questioning the impact on all of our medical systems?
Here’s NYC in the 1900s. Spot the fat people. No one is going to tell me those people were suffering starvation. They had plenty of other problems, but that seems like a thriving society to me.
We can talk all day long about why they were normal sized. We can talk all day about why everyone’s fat now days. We need to talk about BOTH.
I think I was being unclear! I was trying to agree with you that banning ads with thin people is shitty, because when I was growing up, that was a huge thing, with ‘real men like curves’ and generally all the media being all about how gross it is to be skinny. And so I felt compelled to hide my underweight body. ‘protruding collar bones’ like in the article is pretty much a direct quote from quite a few of my bullies. It’s important to fight fat phobia, but this really ain’t it.
Oh! I get you now. My ex-wife had the same issues, wouldn’t wear shorts because she was bullied for her skinny legs as a child. She’s got long, thin, smooth legs any woman would DIE for!
Absolutely overweight is a public health problem. But overweight is not a beauty or fashion ideal. It’s a very different problem.
People are getting eating disorders in attempts to become thinner than they should, which is why extremely thin models in some places are not allowed in fashion modelling. It’s not just to protect the models, it’s also to prevent an unhealthy ideal.
‘protruding collarbones’
Isn’t that normal in a healthy person?
It should protude if you do the
Dude looks like Ruby Weapon
The what, mind flayer?
As someone with their six pack stored in the cooler, even I have protruding collar bones
Yes but she didn’t have a license for protruding collarbones
Arrest her ass and send her to el Salvador. This is a traitorous crime. Over half of patriotic Americans work tirelessly to ensure their collarbones are buried deep.
There’s a difference between seeing someone’s collar bone and accidentally slicing your hand on it.
Internet full of people blatantly arguing in bad faith shocker.
Anyone who shops at zara is a moron.
What’s sad is I’m sure most of them are the kinds of idiots that think they “need” more money.
Ooh do Dollskill next
this is thin shaming.
Or normalising obesity.
Generally: Good! Nuance: Some people are super thin by default and still healthy. However, that is not the standard and should not be pushed on anyone. Can we find a way to regulate health requirements for models? There’s so much technology we can use these days to see if someone is damaging their body by behaving a certain way, would mandatory screening for that not be the best way forward?
That’s not to say less/unhealthy people can’t be models or beautiful, but just to make sure nobody feels like they need to starve themself in any way.
They look anorexic. I don’t know why so many people are into that skeletal look.
They absolutely do not look anorexic - are we looking at the same pictures?
This seems like just a different flavor of bullying just now skinny people instead of fat. Some people are naturally frail and shouldn’t be outcast from society for something they cant control (unlike most fat people).
Anorexia is much more dangerous than obesity. Holding up the anorexic body type as a model of beauty has killed many young girls.
Is it? According to whom? Are you comparing an extreme anorexic to an extreme 400kg obese person? Is the line really that clear for you here?
We’re talking modeling here, unfortunately a lot of those girls are forced down anorexia street and dont just appear to be thin naturally
Idk, I thought they looked good. I wouldn’t describe that as skeletal
I love women so thin that other guys find it borderline gross. But damn, I’m afraid that model is skeletal under her clothes.
Great news!
Have you looked at the pictures? It’s a normal looking woman.
Zara is gonna be going on a big hiring spree in Gaza soon…
Man, this is the kind of dark humor i like.
Distasteful comment.
