My dad’s family used to have a dairy farm. There was one point in time, like 100 years ago, where they rivalled Wiseman’s for distribution in Scotland. However my uncle took it over in the late 70s and gradually made bad decisions with regards to running it. I think it was ok for a while because the long standing managers were on top of everything but when they retired everything became more chaotic. My poor uncle probably should have gone into academia as opposed to business since he’s neurodivergent* and not particularly practically minded but his brothers had left to start careers in other professions, so I think he felt the mantle had fallen to him.
From what I can tell it was kind of inertia that completely killed the business. With supermarkets charging less and less for milk, the old way of operating a dairy farm as a regular business is not really viable. Successful farmers these days don’t just do produce; they do open days and sell “country experiences” to punters who crave some kind of rural nostalgia. You pretty much have to be half farm and half events agency providing organised fun to school/office groups or families.
*From what I understand, they didn’t really have the vocabulary to recognise this in the 70s. Family thought he was bright but eccentric.
Animal ag doesn’t produce food, it consumes it.
Agreed, but the problem is butter is really nice. We want something as good, or better, that doesn’t use so much land and water create so much CO2 (well CO2e).
We already have butter free of animal products that tastes and functions just the same. It’s probably in your supermarket, no Bill Gates required. You don’t use it because you don’t particularly care about committing cruelty and violence to vulnerable individuals living in atrocity. I don’t use it because it’s still not good for you.
This really depends on where you live. I didn’t realise how spoilt I was living in Berlin until I moved away. Vegan butter that is as good as actual butter is widely available there, at about the same price - albeit unsalted.
I’m now in France, where big supermarkets often have a whole row of fridges dedicated to butter, and I’ve not as yet even seen one place selling any kind of modern vegan butter. I think it was the same story in Spain too, although I wasn’t staying in large cities there.
I’ve tried a range of different vegan butters while I’ve been at home in the UK and they all just taste like margarine. France I can understand, as they have a big dairy culture (no pun intended - that would be too cheesy), but I’m at a loss to explain why the good stuff isn’t widely available in the UK as the demand is there.
Have used it actually, but it’s not as good. Also we know some dairy farming families and they aren’t torturing their herd. Though you are right, I don’t really care about the fate of them. As long as their isn’t real sadistic cruelty. In that instance, I worry more about what it says about the people.
I’m far more interested in the environmental impact. I can’t seam to digest meat substitutes (even when they are meant to be coeliac safe). We make a point of restraining our beef consumption due to the environmental impact, as it’s the worse meat impact wise. I’d jump on lab meat and milk.
There isn’t a worker shortage, there’s a compensation benefit shortage.
You offer six figure, part-time contracts and the applications will come flooding in. Offer enough to get the number of applicants you want.
Farmers and field-hands never have been a rich bunch, most of them literally just get by.
Field-hands have traditionally been undocumented workers willing to work for cheap with free room and board. They work dusk till dawn, have dinner with the farmer, and sleep in the farmers basement or unused shack. The farmer pays them under the table with cash, and they leave after harvest is done a few weeks later.
Many parts of southern Germany still operate on cheap summer workers from Bulgaria.
It’s not a compensation issue, it’s a lack of migrants issue due to the UK’s new found sense of xenophobia.
new found
I have bad news for you.
I’m not disagreeing that the UK is xenophobic. I would disagree that the UK’s xenophobia is new found. But it is also a compensation issue.
Solution for butter at least : https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/butter-carbon-bill-gates-batavia-illinois/
Dairy Farmers: “We can’t find anyone who wants to work hard and try, but fail to survive on these unsurvivable compensation levels”.
Sure I like cheese as much as the next person but its hardly critical to food security.
If you are struggling to find staff, then answer this: Why would I want to work for you?
If milk disappears. You will wake up to us old tea drinking zombies trying to eat brains.
Just a warning.
Tea with real milk is still one of the most popular drinks in the UK. Just not for youngsters.
Milk alternatives are still low sales compared to real milk. Even as popular as they have grown.
Edit: I’ll add. We actually import the majority of cheese from Ireland. We do make our own. But milk is the main product of UK diaries. As it is still cheaper to transport shorter distance then any secondary dairy products. Cheese butter etc. so supermarkets tend to stay as local as possible for such short storage projects.
If milk disappears. You will wake up to us old tea drinking zombies trying to eat brains.
Just a warning.
Tea with real milk is still one of the most popular drinks in the UK. Just not for youngsters.
Milk alternatives are still low sales compared to real milk. Even as popular as they have grown.
Edit: I’ll add. We actually import the majority of cheese from Ireland. We do make our own. But milk is the main product of UK diaries. As it is still cheaper to transport shorter minecraft 1.21 download apk distance then any secondary dairy products. Cheese butter etc. so supermarkets tend to stay as local as possible for such short storage projects.
Ça ressemble à un souci matériel sur la manette, possiblement lié au module sans fil. Un test sur une autre console pourrait confirmer.
Sure alternatives are less popular but if cows milk goes up in price then it makes alternatives more appealing.
I don’t see running out being a likely risk tbh.
Agreed. Running out wise.
But the taste of the alternatives is simply not milk. Many find alternatives unpleasent. So their will always be a demand.
But yeah that demand is currently artificially high due to low pricing by supermarkets/delivery competition.
The whole thing is making things hard for dairy farms. Not just staffing that is more to do with the pricing.
But the whole supermarkets avoiding uK providers for cheese etc.
Oh no my milk tastes different is hardly a food security issue
Simple lack of a regular supply is a food security issue.
It has to be replaced and ensuring the alternative exist is an issue that takes land and effort.
At a time when farms harvest have failed. Alternatives also have issues.
Stop looking for reasons not to care.
You clearly lack any understanding of food supply.
It takes 4 to 6 months to grow a new crop. Not to mention free growing land is hardly available.
Add to that a couple of years to expand current production facilities. No a huge source of current protine is in no way instantly replaceable with plant milk.
Historically yes taste has negative affects on citizens health. Look at WW2 war history of trying to force replace products in the past. You cannot force folks to consume things they dislike health is lost historically. Even in a war setting it has issues.
It takes huge time and investment and yes societies health is seriously effected by refusal to accept the replacement.
Your attitude seems childish in many ways. Based entirely on your own perceived importance of a high Y used product. With no understating of what is involved in actually replacing such products. Or what happens to non milked cows if dairly farms fail.
I have no issue with blaming those responsible. But yes any lose of a hugely used food source is a seriose issue.
Are they complaining they can’t find people to work a split shift, milking and feeding? Automated milking parlours are a thing. Automated feed, water. Just check on them daily.
But nobody wants a zero hour contract with an average of 1hr a day to do that, so is that what they’re complaining about?
hopefully the dairy industry collapses globally.
Dairy and meat are important components of the diets of children.
Health aspects of vegan diets among children and adolescents: a systematic review and meta-analyses
Meta-analyses showed lower protein, calcium, vitamin B2, saturated fatty acid, and cholesterol intakes, and lower ferritin, HDL and LDL levels as well as height in vegan compared to omnivorous children/adolescents.
The evidence indicates that vegan, but not vegetarian, diets can restrict growth relative to omnivorous children and increase the risk of being stunted and underweight, although the percentage affected is relatively small.
Vegan diet in young children remodels metabolism and challenges the statuses of essential nutrients
Detailed analysis of serum metabolomics and biomarkers indicated vitamin A insufficiency and border‐line sufficient vitamin D in all vegan participants. Their serum total, HDL and LDL cholesterol, essential amino acid, and docosahexaenoic n‐3 fatty acid (DHA) levels were markedly low and primary bile acid biosynthesis, and phospholipid balance was distinct from omnivores. Possible combination of low vitamin A and DHA status raise concern for their visual health.
Both groups [vegans and vegetarians] had lower bone mineral content (BMC). The difference for vegetarians attenuated after accounting for body size but remained in vegans (total body minus the head: –3.7%; 95% CI: –7.0, –0.4; lumbar spine: –5.6%; 95% CI: –10.6, –0.5). Vegetarians had lower total cholesterol, HDL, and serum B-12 and 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] without supplementation but higher glucose, VLDL, and triglycerides. Vegans were shorter and had lower total LDL (–24 mg/dL; 95% CI: –35.2, –12.9) and HDL (–12.2 mg/dL; 95% CI: –17.3, –7.1), high-sensitivity C-reactive protein, iron status, and serum B-12 (–217.6 pmol/L; 95% CI: –305.7, –129.5) and 25(OH)D without supplementation but higher homocysteine and mean corpuscular volume. Vitamin B-12 deficiency, iron-deficiency anemia, low ferritin, and low HDL were more prevalent in vegans, who also had the lowest prevalence of high LDL. Supplementation resolved low B-12 and 25(OH)D concentrations.
Adults are a little more resilient and some can survive on a carefully designed vegan diet.
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements.
https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672(16)31192-3/abstract
Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
The association is funded by a number of food multinationals, pharmaceutical companies, and food industry lobbying groups, such as the National Confectioners Association. The Academy has faced controversy regarding corporate influence and its relationship with the food industry and funding from corporate groups such as McDonald’s, Coca-Cola, Mars, and others.
…
During fiscal year 2015, the organisation received $1.1 million in corporate sponsorship’s from companies like General Mills, Coca-Cola and Pepsi Co via donations, joint initiatives, and programs.
Emphasis mine. As always, it’s important to view all organizations in the context of their relationship with other larger and more influential organizations.
Isabelle Thiebaut, a co-author of the opinion and president of an European organization for dieticians, said that it is important to explain to parents about “weight-loss and psychomotor delays, undernutrition, anemia” and other possible nutritional shortfalls caused by a vegan diet for children.
I have more of these. Veganism is generally not recommended by health professionals across the world for children. I’m sure you can find some authorities which disagree, but they are in the minority. I’ve provided peer reviewed research showing a clear health risk for children. Not every child who is raised on a vegan diet will suffer health issues, but it is an unnecessary risk, and some of the potential issues are permanent.
You need people to choose it. Pricing dairy and meat away from the masses makes it a social inequality thing. I don’t think that is the answer anyone wants. It can’t be a hair shirt thing. (Though if history is to go by, there will be affordable meat from somewhere, legal or not.)
It has got to be a better option thing. Like EVs vs ICE. Climate and pollution advantages are nice, but it’s 10x running cost difference that sells EVs. It has to be a jam today option.
lol
