Many NSFW have nothing to do with porn. Sometimes are horror contents, some times are crude images, some times are just lazy people who don’t know of the Spoiler tag. Can we have a quick and easy way to filter off all the (very funny but not alway wanted) Porn posts without locking out those other contents???
I think horror or gore should go to NSFL rather than moving porn off NSFW. NSFW had traditionally meant porn where NSFL has meant gore, there just hasn’t been a separate NSFL tag because that type of content has been discouraged and giving it it’s own tag could be seen as legitimizing it.
Horror doesn’t mean gore and people use the nsfw tag for things other than porn, gore or horror too.
Horror should still be nsfl
I totally agree with @Lojcs@lemm.ee (damn you scrolling comment setting)👆
@Lojcs@lemm.ee
The tags are currently worked on, if you want to say something to make a change, write there.
https://github.com/Neshura87/Lemmy-RFC
Github issue that started the tags conversation. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/317
I don’t think tags would be a solution as they wouldn’t be standard threadiverse-wide. Also porn communities would want to mark their posts with specifying tags like every other community does instead of a generic porn tag.
What’s needed is expansion of the nsfw mark into subcategories
there is proposal for three types of tags: NSFW, spoiler and generic. NSFW and spoiler will blur the images, and generic tags are for content categorization. NSFW and spoiler tags should have the same behavior on lemmy. kbin dev will want to make parity change for his feature.
I still don’t think it’d be enough to leave nsfw tag creation to communities. Even if a porn community created multiple tags under nsfw to classify their posts that would do nothing to help people block all porn on the platform. Porn, gore etc need to be their own tag types under the general nsfw type.
I would recommend you read the request for comment made by Neshura87, there he explained that it won’t work like that. nsfw and spoiler tags are embedded into lemmy software.
I read the thing, but that’s still no reason not to seperate nsfw category further. It makes no mention of a technical limitation that prevents creation of more categories, it’s just a person suggesting how a tag system could look like.
there he explained that it won’t work like that
The entire reason I’m commenting is because I don’t want it to work like that. I have no idea how to reply to a git commit, if I did I’d object there too.
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CW and NSFW are too broad to be the only 2 types of tags.
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The suggestion to use tag urls as ids don’t work with the idea of using ids to share tags across instances. I don’t want the entire threadiverse to decide https://lemmy.world/t/nsfw is the global nsfw tag and smaller instances being forced to use that or risk people facing unsolicited nsfw from their instance.
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There is no mention of filtering posts based on their tag category, which would make it impossible to block nsfw posts across instances without using the shared id. There needs to be platform level tag categories (especially for things people might not want to see) so content filtering works in a consistent and decentralised manner. Then individual instances or communities can create their their own tags based on those categories to fit their needs.
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The author seems to want to replace the spoiler mark with a (cw) tag called spoiler, but things can be both spoilers and fall under other tags (ie an image post, a leak, a discussion etc). Also this would pointlessly filter out regular spoiler content if a user blocks tags with the cw category.
The way I’d want things is tags and spoilers / content warnings being completely seperate from each other at the platform level:
Content warnings to let people filter out content they don’t want to see. They wouldn’t a content discovery tool. And they would be nestable. There would be platform wide default ones like
- Spoiler
- Nsfw
- Artful nudity
- Nudity
- Porn
- Nudity
- Shock
- Injury
- Gore
- Injury
- Slurs
- Artful nudity
. Users would be able to choose whether to show, blur or block content with these warnings in the settings. Instances and communities would be able to make their own content warning as well, managed by the user in the settings of a community. A user creating a post would see a menu to pick the content warnings (multiple if they want) that describe their post. Tags describe content to people who want to find such content. There could be generic platform wide ones like news, qna etc, but the majority would be community specific. Tags could also include default content warnings (eg ‘leak’ tag could activate the spoiler content warning).
I think this would be the most elegant way to do it, but even what we have now feels better than what is proposed in that link
Preffix: someone needs to fix comments disapearing when clicking on literally anything at all.
Commenting directly since ludrol tagged me.
CW and NSFW are too broad to be the only 2 types of tags.
There will be 3: NSFW, CW and Generic. Excuse the passive aggressiveness but this tells me you didn’t read the RFC at all
The suggestion to use tag urls as ids don’t work with the idea of using ids to share tags across instances. I don’t want the entire threadiverse to decide https://lemmy.world/t/nsfw is the global nsfw tag and smaller instances being forced to use that or risk people facing unsolicited nsfw from their instance.
Your example makes no sense as people not wanting to see will block the entire NSFW tag type in the settings, not the instance tag. The id’s are for granular filtering, not for blanket blocking
There is no mention of filtering posts based on their tag category, which would make it impossible to block nsfw posts across instances without using the shared id.
Is there now? Gee I sure wonder what I wrote in that Outlook section…
There needs to be platform level tag categories (especially for things people might not want to see) so content filtering works in a consistent and decentralised manner. Then individual instances or communities can create their their own tags based on those categories to fit their needs.
Preset tags can and will definitely be included, not least of all because functionality of the current borked NSFW system will need to be preserved once it is replaced with the tag system. What you are describing here is pretty much what I wrote in the RFC, again: Did you actually read that thing?
The author seems to want to replace the spoiler mark with a (cw) tag called spoiler, but things can be both spoilers and fall under other tags (ie an image post, a leak, a discussion etc). Also this would pointlessly filter out regular spoiler content if a user blocks tags with the cw category.
See my point regarding NSFW filtering, if a user does not want to see some Spoilers they would filter out those Spoilers or Whitelist the ones they want to see (more likely option but both are possible). Problems like this are partly why the Filter System debate is still ongoing. Changing the tags to be limited to certain groups does not really fix this problem, it simply moves the workload from the moderators to the devs.
Users would be able to choose whether to show, blur or block content with these warnings in the settings.
Is the plan with my RFC as well, again your idea moves the burden of moderation to the devs which is a horrible idea, there already isn’t enough brainpower behind this project.
A user creating a post would see a menu to pick the content warnings (multiple if they want) that describe their post. Tags describe content to people who want to find such content. There could be generic platform wide ones like news, qna etc, but the majority would be community specific. Tags could also include default content warnings (eg ‘leak’ tag could activate the spoiler content warning).
You are almost literally describing my RFC, i ask again did you actually read it?!
but even what we have now feels better than what is proposed in that link
lol.
- There will be 3: NSFW, CW and Generic. Excuse the passive aggressiveness but this tells me you didn’t read the RFC at all
I thought it was obvious that generic is even broder than nsfw or cw, and is irrelevant since we’re talking about nsfw type not being specific enough. And your writing isn’t passive aggressive, it sounds angry. If you didn’t want comments why name it request for comment?
Your example makes no sense as people not wanting to see will block the entire NSFW tag type in the settings,
Your rfc doesn’t mention that, it only mentions blocking tags.
This is what your outlook section says:
There have already been several discussions about future expansions, in particular filtering tags has been requested. Given this proposal tag filtering in the feed view should be possible without further changes to the backend.
Do you see tag type filtering anywhere?
Preset tags can and will definitely be included… What you are describing here is pretty much what I wrote in the RFC
You wrote of only having the nsfw and cw (and general) types in the rfc. I didn’t see anything about expanding that to more specific types. And if you mean having an nsfw tag with the name porn, it’s not clear in the rfc that tag names can be used for filtering.
Using the object ID optional tag federation can also be achieved, allowing for communities across multiple instances to share content via tags
Makes it sound like only tags with the same id would be considered the same in the interface, so the same preset tag from different instances/communities would not be interchangeable.
See my point regarding NSFW filtering,
If your point was:
Theoretically NSFW could be implemented using a preset “Content Warning” tag but seperating out this tag allows instances to better filter it out for moderation purposes
Then your point is that it does make sense to have more tag types if they’re important enough, so that’s not a point against having a spoiler tag type. Anyways, I wrote that because I thought every post would be limited to 1 tag like on reddit and didn’t see the news example. Mb.
You are almost literally describing my RFC, i ask again did you actually read it?!
Stop being so flippant about it. I read your post. It talks about a single tag system that also takes the role of content warnings. I specifically wrote that (imo) content warnings (for filtering out) should be seperate than tags (for filtering in). Also your post doesn’t mention platform wide default tags.
@neshura@bookwormstory.social tagging the author.
as I understand:
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we have 3 types of tags CW, NSFW and general type
CW makes images blurred and text collapsed
NSFW is the same as CW but you can opt in in setting to see all types of porn
general tags are additional to tags above to specify content type: hentai, news, memes, etc.
you can tag things with multiple general tags + CW or NSFW -
we won’t have only lemmy.world/t/nsfw but also lemm.ee/t/nsfw and szmer.info/t/nsfw and this NSFW tags should be federated. All posts should appear the same if someone is following the same communities. Moderators can handle untagged content and tag accordingly.
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This is worth adding
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CW tag is based on activityPub protocol but author wants to split it on lemmy into CW and NSFW. On mastodon there is only CW for everything and #hashtags for specifying.
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Proposition is for different architecture
- NSFW for porn
- spoiler blurred not porn
- general for type content that is inside of a post: (nudity, hardcore porn, hentai, news, memes)
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Ability to choose which tags to show, which to hide is good addition. Automatic addition of CW for certain tags is also fine proposition.
something worth exploring is same general tags that are federated across instances
With #2, my problem was that without the ability to block categories, different instances would need to use the same shared id for the nsfw tag to let users block all nsfw at once; which is a regression from the current sceme.
general tags are additional to tags above to specify content type
So like hastags? I had assumed 1 tag per post
- Proposition is for different architecture
Put that in there in case someone asks why I’m criticizing the current plan without providing an alternate one.
Anyways, this scheme doesn’t solve what op has asked for, which is to block porn posts platform wide without blocking all nsfw posts. With this scheme they’d need to add every community / instance’s porn tag to their blacklist one by one, and it’s not even guaranteed that posters would use the porn tag in addition to a more specific tag. Letting moderators set default tags for communities could solve the second problem. But to solve the first one either tags need to be blockable by name (instead of id) or there needs to be a seperate tag category for porn
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We need parent and child tags. If we can create a parent ‘porn’ tag and a child ‘hentai’ tag nested, then people can block as wide or as narrow as they want.
I think copying Mastodon would be the best for this. You can mark the post as sensitive (nsfw), which blurs the images. You can also add a content warning that can be used for anything (nsfw, nsfl, spoilers, etc).
And then use tags separately for categorizing posts.
Thank you I’ll check the links 👍
Just do what I do and fill your blocklist with over 500 (and growimg) porn communities…
/s
Can you give me the list so I know what communities to avoid?
That would be a nice feature
There’s no means of exporting that list, and no way for you to import it except manually.
I’m no going to that effort. (especially as I’m on mobile)
Scroll all and block any porn that pops up. That’s what I’ve done over the last few months.
I think they were making a joke about asking for the names of the communities so that they can go and browse them.
Done👍
Some of the apps allow blocking of instances, I use Sync For Lemmy and I blocked pornlemmy and lemmynsfw and I don’t see porn anymore for the most part, there are still some stray nsfw communities on other instances but I rarely see any of their content
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I feel this.
It would be easier to allow you to fully block the 2 instances it comes from.
For real, if I could block lemmynsfw that would remove 90% of the porn from my feed.
I swear I blocked every community on there but more keep showing up…
100% there needs to be a way to block lemmynsfw, I say this even as an admin for it!
Ha, great reply
Nothing against your instance, just wish I could hide it from my “all” feed without hiding all NSFW content.
Agreed. There needs to also have more granular federation options (blocking images, forcing NSFW on another instances posts, silence them in c/all, etc etc)
Well Lemmy just needs more nuanced search and filter capabilities in general.
I would like to be able to say “don’t show me nsfw in my normal feed.” Sometimes I want to see nsfw content, but I want to specifically search for it, and I don’t think Lemmy’s user-level curation tools allow for that kind of richness yet.
Incidentally, I’ve found a structural problem in Lemmy’s UI that I noticed because of the unique nature of lemmynsfw. Y’all restrict browsing topics to logged in accounts, the reasons for which I understand. But from my account on sh.itjust.works, I can’t go to another instance and browse the communities they have there. I get redirected to that community’s homepage, where I don’t have an account, so I’m not logged in…see the issue here? I can search, but not browse, other instances while logged into my fediverse account.
A problem that existed on Reddit as well but is worse on Lemmy: There’s no topic/directory structure. Here’s an example I ran into here that I’ve cited before: Someone on some instance spun up a bunch of communities about some sports ball league. They created a nearly identical community for each team in the league complete with a nearly identical bot that posted scores in each community. I think this is a perfectly valid use case for Lemmy, this is legitimate and valid traffic that 100% deserves to be on the fediverse. I also think it’s really spammy for those of us who aren’t interested in sports and I’d like a convenient way to filter it out. If instances specialized in topics and there was a lemmysports.world I could personally block, that would pretty much do it…except that pretty much didn’t happen. There are general purpose instances, political extremist outcast instances, lemmynsfw, and kbin. A topic/directory structure might let non-sports fans easily say “don’t show me /sports/” but…nope that’s not a thing. So tailoring your feed to your preferences is a Sisyphean task, and I don’t immediately see a solution to this.
What about the content on lemmy.world? A few communities were set up on this instance as well.
By comparison, There’s far fewer porn communities outside those main instances.
If we could block an entire instance, my block list would drop from over 500 communities to those two instances + like 10 other individual communities.
Plus maybe I could go more than 20min without adding to it…
What’s the second one
You know, so I can block it too
There’s also yiffit (.net I think?) and some .uk instance, like lemmef.uk or something
can we just block instances at the user account level?
I think i saw there is a merge request for this up on git, which hopefully means it’s not far away
That’s great news. I’ll try find the link
Many of the Android apps let you filter instances, as well as individual communities or users. Most instances don’t host porn because of the legal headache, so blocking the only two that specialize in it should (mostly) do the trick: lemmynsfw and pornlemmy. On Sync for Lemmy, tap the overflow button on an offending post > filter > filter instance
I get that, but I don’t feel good about that solution. You’re sort of beholden to that specific client.
Given new lemmy is as a platform, I don’t want to feel locked in yet (though I understand instance block lists might be cross compatible between all client apps supporting the feature).
Another counter argument is that an instance block list should be relatively short. Keeping this list in a separate location and manually re-applying will probably not take up a lot of time.
Ideally this would be baked into ActivityPub, true, as would a distinction between porn, gore, and other sensitive topics for easy filtering by flair. But in the meantime, I’m relatively satisfied with the (admittedly hacked together) approach we have now. We already spend a couple minutes playing around with the look and feel of any new client we download, and filters are just part of that “settling in” process. If we had a bunch of them to set, it’d be one thing. But porn filtering really is just a matter of tagging one or two instances to cover 99% of the content out there. And the best part is that you’re not even digging through the settings, you’re tapping 3 buttons (max) on posts if you see them at all. As far as inconveniences go when switching apps, that one’s pretty minor.
As for being “locked in” and beholden to a particular client, are you really locked in if all of them let you do the same things (albeit in their own ways)?
My primary gripe with the ‘lock in’ part is the experience divergence between mobile client apps and the desktop web view.
Yeah, I originally left it unchecked because I’m fine with non-porn NSFW stuff, but the porn was so overwhelming I just had to block it all.
People keep saying this and I keep not seeing very many salacious pics. I wonder why.
I’m not familiar with your instance, but it’s possible that it’s not federated with the two big porn instances.
I know we’re federated with nsfwlemmy or whatever the name is. What’s the other one? I want to check.
I know we haven’t had drama about defederating from some of the instances that I see other instances ranting about. Which is good. I don’t want us to defed.
Alternatively a filter for “hentai” and a more general “anime” filter would also be nice.
How would the filters apply to those communities where it’s lewd anime but still technically clothed? I’ve had to block several communities for being what is as close to hentai as you can get.
This system could work if the people who manage anime communities also enforced tagging borderline hentai with the hentai tag, which hopefully most wouldn’t take issue with. You could always still block the community/instance if they don’t follow this system.
Personally I’m not interested in hentai or anime, which is why a general anime filter encompassing both of these themes would be perfect for me.
I’m an anime person but let’s face it. People only post anime when it’s boobs or NSFW material. I got in an argument with someone over not wanting to see obvious NSFW on Lemmy when it wasn’t tagged and his argument was “they’re in a swimsuit” which btw is not sfw by any means.
I’d love an anime filter tag
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I fail to see how that’s a me problem
Nsfl = inury / death
Nsfw = curse words, a boob, etc
Porn tag for porn and art with nude chicks
The old reddit rule says that wild things are porn and porn things are random ass photos of neat things… also, words strongly suggesting things related to the sex are just cats…
So, we need a better wording for the porn-porn tag
Or a NUDE tag to cover all of the uncovered.
Can we have the exact opposite?
“Safe” tagging?
No, way to tag nsfw that’s not porn.
I think overall a good way would be to add content warnings like other fediverse software and making it so that you can set specific communities to have specific content warnings to be applied.
I don’t think ActivityPub supports that. There’s just the “sensitive” flag (which Mastodon shows as a content warning and lemmy shows as NSFW). I think you’d have to do something outside of the specification.
I don’t think ActivityPub supports that.
Which only means that you have to add it to activitypub first.
While we’re at it let’s add that for different languages
Wait, the Fediverse has porn? Uh, asking for a friend.
Apparently. According to what someone says anyway 😇
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OP doesn’t want to block all NSFW, just porn.
Yep 👍
