Source https://sh.itjust.works/comment/21042568
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I lean socialist, but yeah fuck this. Ukraine should be liberated as much as Palestine, Nepal, and the Philippines. Fuck authoritarian simps.
The ONLY conflict that should concern us all is the class conflict.
If so called “leftists” think that solidarity doesn’t extend to their favorite oppressed people, then they aren’t leftists. They are fascists in disguise who associate with an in-group juxtaposed against an out-group. Leftists must realize that EVERYONE is part of the in-group, even fascists themselves. For if their material lives were well nourished and enriched, they wouldn’t feel the need to hate.
Now, I have heard that there has been and may still be corruption in the Ukrainian government. That corruption doesn’t give permission for other countries to invade and take over, though. If anything, internal affairs should be dealt between the opposing sides PEACEFULLY and DEMOCRATICALLY. If things do come to violence, those internal seeking to restore a democratic system of government should be supported more by those external than the opposing side of corruption.
I wish people would stop referring to Tankies and authoritarian regimes as leftists. If we stop entertaining the hallucination that they are- then maybe places like Wikipedia will start labeling them correctly as right wing.
From the very beginning of the terms “Left” and “Right” to describe the political spectrum, which originated in pre-revolutionary war France, the Left has always been about freedom from Tyranny and the Right has been pro-government (ruling class) control.
Maybe the USSR did start out as revolutions of the proletariat, but once they were controlled by increasingly authoritarian leadership, that should have flipped them from left to right on the political spectrum. In a sane world that’s exactly what would have happened. Guess who’s best interests it was to mislabel the USSR, the PRC and the DPRK as ‘Leftists’? Ill give you one guess. If you said capitalists and the right wing in Western democracies- That’s a bingo! And of course they are going to label themselves as ‘left wing’. To admit otherwise would be to expose the whole lie. So in a weird example of cold war cooperation between the East and West, that fiction has continued.
The only reason that Communism and Socialism were correctly labeled as ‘Left’ ideologies in the first place is because, implemented correctly, they both offer less control by the ‘ruling class’. Socialism was meant to return the power to the people, and communism was meant to abolish the state completely. Authoritarian regimes run counter to both those goals. You will NEVER abolish the state by strengthening the state. That makes about as much sense as ‘trickle down economics’. Hey maybe if we give the billionaires all the money, they’ll give us a little back in return. Spoiler alert, no they wont.
/rant
I got banned from .ml because I said China and North Korea were oppressive regimes. Apparently that means I am a “fascist sympathizer”
They are going by the MAGA definition.
You should post that ban message
I was actually misremembering it seems (I was mixing 2 bans together) I got banned for this comment for the ambiguous “rule 1”. It was a different community that banned me for being a “nazi defender”
China and North Korea were oppressive regimes
Apparently that means I am a “fascist sympathizer”
It certainly signals you as a mark. Can’t count how many conservative trolls have used “They want to make America into North Korea!” to terrify Americans into rejecting everything from Canadian style health care to Haitian earthquake refugees to Columbia’s anti-genocide protest movement.
Get away from this rhetoric and quit being terrified of places on the other side of the planet you’ve only ever heard about as Scary Ghost Stories. You’re only a few steps off panicking over Venezuelan Biker Gangs and Ground Zero Mosques.
why are you defending a dictatorship?
I want you to reply to me “The Tianamen Square Massacre happened the third of June in the year 1989. And the government murdered 300 peaceful protestors that day, then had the fucking audacity to claim 5,000 of their soldiers were injured which is fucking laughable and expected of oppressive regimes.”
Or something along those lines.
The Tianamen Square Massacre happened the third of June in the year 1989. And the government murdered 300 peaceful protestors that day, then had the fucking audacity to claim 5,000 of their soldiers were injured which is fucking laughable and expected of oppressive regimes.
Fair.
So are you supportive of the North Korean dictatorship then?
Why would I support a dictatorship? I’m a socialist. Lol
So your solution is to… say that China and North Korea are wonderful, tolerant regimes? What is your point lmao
Edit: I guess it’d probably be to “just ignore it it’s fine”
Edit: I guess it’d probably be to “just ignore it it’s fine”
☺️ That’s the spirit.
Except it isn’t and you can acknowledge that fact without being a “fascist sympathizer”. If someone is going to draw false parallels, ignoring how bad the regimes are isn’t going to change that
Slava Ukraini! Go fuck yourself, .ml tankies
Their whole identity is being built around fighting nazis. And bringing back traditional values.
Just like conservative values are being brought back to fight wokness.
Just like israel has to eradicate Palestine.
Just like nazis had to exterminate the jews.
It is all fascism.
Tankies are fascists that deluded themselves into thinking they are lefties.
deleted by creator
Are we still pretending .ml and hexbear aren’t almost exclusively fronts for Russian propaganda?
russia or CCP propaganda.
Their whole identity is being built around fighting nazis. And bringing back traditional values.
Idk about that second bit.
fighting nazis
Just like nazis had to exterminate the jews.
Wait, what?
Tankies are fascists
Listen, .ml has its own problems. But when the fascists get to your door, you’re going to wish you had a tank, too.
are you saying that fascism is inevitable so we might we well jump onto authoritarianism as protection?
they’re not oppositional
For Sigmar, for the Warhammer!
I mean, I blocked the instance because a lot of the content is just ragebait, historical revisionism, or just plain nonsense.
Best option is to ignore them, let them fester, then watch the inevitable infighting as they factionalise with some popcorn.
same thing, i found myself often engaging in thier posts accidentally.
I’m seeing like 13 different .ml instances. Did you block them all or is there a specific one we are talking bout here? Sorry, I’m pretty new to Lemmy
“.ml” refers to “lemmy.ml” here.
Gracias
I had no idea so much of lemmy.ml was run and populated by a bunch of paid Russian agents and their useful idiots. One guy had only been on Lemmy for a couple of months and had already posted hundreds of propaganda pieces from Russian state sponsored new sources. Another poster specialized on propaganda from other sources but was just as prolific.
lemmy.ml is the toilet of Lemmy.
Who knew. Vatnik garglers consider anything that is in opposition to Russia and russkiy mir is a nazi /s
People should really be more upset with lemmy.ml - it’s such a shit stain on the entire fediverse :(
I never heard of tankies until I got to lemmy.
The first thing that I ever saw from them was a meme about how Joseph Stalin had very little in the way of material things when he died, despite the position he held.
And I was like Bitch, I care about Stalin’s earthly possessions in the exact same way that I care about Hitler’s painting with watercolors skill set.
This got me thinking about my western canadian upbringing through the back half of the Cold War. A steady stream of western indictrination and perspective. I recall zero words spoken about Joseph Stalin’s personal life or spending habits.
So who the fuck was that meme aimed at? Who is out there, just wanting to love Stalin, but can’t on account of thinking he lived in opulence? Who is out there heaping scorn on Stalin for what he owned or didn’t?
That’s when I realized that tankies are just a combination of Flat Earthers/Sovereign Citizens. It’s all bullshit, and the point is to be exceedingly difficult to talk to.
There is a funny story about the real currency of power that involves Stalin. The story goes that Stalin and his party officials came upon a beggerwoman on the side of the road. She asked them if they could spare some money. In a rare moment of generosity from Stalin he went for his wallet, only to find it empty. He asked the officials if they had any money, but all of their purses sounded empty.
Those in power do not need money, as everything they ever want will be given to them.
My first interactions on lemmy here were with a large pod of tankies on memes of all places.
It was not clear to me they were anything but super politically correct Americans so I argued with them for like a hundred different replies before one of them told me, then they kept brigading me and following me on to other posts and such.
Then my phone started acting wonky and I got afraid I was getting hacked by them so I made a new account, I do not know if they can find you from Lemmy but I still have both.
I too, have never heard of tankies before joining lemmy.
Imagine my surprise, when i, a guy from a post-soviet country, where the fans of soviets are endangered species, see them all fanboying over dictators of the past century over here lol
sorry you have to experience that
It’s interesting how almost all Tankies come from the US
This is so relatable. I’m from a former communist country. The first time I encountered a large group of tankies was on Reddit around the TikTok ban. It was stunning. It had me thinking “My god, the far-right will put us all in the same boat as these weirdos and sink the boat”
The best part they’re from countries that never even remotely experienced soviet horrors. The lead tankies are from Netherlands and many other appear to be from flyover states of the US lol
and obvious it’s invaded by ruzi bots
I envy you. I live in Hungary, and for a long while the only leftists I knew about were tankies. They’re just as annoying offline as online.
Kind of likewise; coming from Reddit the political weirdos were American conservative types, “Jesus needs more guns to shoot the gays and the poor and the blacks” sort of folks. The idea of fervent fucking Soviets on the English speaking internet was new and instantly boring.
There are actually plenty of tankies on Reddit, but with Reddit you have to pretty much seek it out because of the massive user base
Legend goes that dessalines actually started Lemmy because their Reddit main got perm banned because he went a lil too tankie
I remember a huge dustup maybe 4 years ago where tankies infiltrated and tried to take over a bunch of left leaning subs within a few weeks. They do it regularly too. I’ve noticed quite a few db0 accounts that are around 9 months old spewing the usual tankie shit.
They do it regularly too. I’ve noticed quite a few db0 accounts that are around 9 months old spewing the usual tankie shit.
We’ve been noticing the same. your thoughts?
Pretty sure it’s just an attempt to normalize their talking points by worming them into discussions. Spreading to different instances is a reaction to grad and hex being largely defederated and ml names being a huge red flag for a bunch of people. I think the reality is that even if everyone defederates every tankie instance, they’ll keep creeping in through different instances. I don’t see a solution beyond simply keeping an eye out and tagging/moderating individuals as they pop up.
and what if they’re okay with those users and instances?
Who’s they? The broader fediverse or mods or both? I guess in either case the thing to do would be tag the users, downvote, and call out their bad talking points. Hopefully enough people pile on to show that we won’t swallow their bullshit.
It’s tough when they’re clever about it. It took me months to realize what cowbee was doing. Luckily most of them aren’t that clever.
Dbzer0’s instance, community members and admins
Legend goes that dessalines actually started Lemmy because their Reddit main got perm banned because he went a lil too tankie
Hey dessalines, care to chime in on why you are the way you are?
alot of tankies probably got banned from reddit for the same reason they are getting blocked/defederated here. plus we get conservatives too trickling from time to time.
I’ve honestly never seen a conservative on Lemmy. But then again I don’t tend to browse much of the fediverse as it’s all yankslop
Tankies never venture into this community, despite this being a place where they can freely discuss their viewpoints. It’s because they know their positions don’t hold any weight, and they’re afraid of being scrutinised.
Idk where here is referring, but memes is all tankies.
here this community
Funnily enough, for all of the prominent Tankie talk about not wanting to be an echo chamber and welcoming debate, .ml actually has this comm instance-blocked LMAO
Yeah. They’re as bad as MAGA with the snowflake hypocrisy.
i call them mirror image of conservatives. inverted image of conservatives.
tankies get astroturfed by right wingers so much they are pretty much invisible. and the ones on the “left” but not extreme left filters them enough for the same results.
What’s the “extreme left”? Anarchists? Why would they support authoritarianism?
Indeed as an Anarchist, tankies and maga conservatives are the mirror of each other, it’s just who holds the hammer and gun that differs.
You won’t see a tankie doing a nazi salute, but you will find them spouting the same antisemitism
Anti-Semitism as a phrase is broken, maybe you should find a new word to use that isn’t poisoned. Did you know that the Arab peoples are semitic?
what do you mean broken? what do you propose instead?
Same here, never heard of them before Lemmy. I was shocked by their illogical statements and behavior. I couldn’t believe anyone could hold such inconsistent beliefs and not just melt their brain, by so many mental gymnastics and plot holes. I still can’t. It just makes way more sense that they are all done kind of weird Russian ai experiment.
i wish all the stupidity i see in the world was the result of russian misinformation, but that’s almost too optimistic a position to hold in my eyes…guess we’ll see if/when russia collapses from fighting ukraine, if it all just dries up.
It’s not just Russian troll farms now. Russia, China and Iran have combined their troll farms, and it’s just steamrolling through social media.
putin is funding the troll farms personally, i think it will be the last to collapse before russia does unfortunately.
They kind of betray each other a lot of the times where some say that tiananmen square massacre didn’t happen and others saying that they are color revolutionaries and absolutely deserved it.
I personally know a born-and-raised Chinese person who’s loyal to the regime. Not even he denies the Uyghur genocide. He just admits that he thinks china should be an ethnostate. I think about that every time I see some keyboard warrier say the genocide is western propaganda.
I’ve found it very curious how Tankies will apply a coat of liberal paint to authoritarian states like China, Iran and Russia. They don’t realise that diversity and the freedom of self-expression they so love are all largely suppressed in these states.
very much a chickens for KFC scenario.
asians are pretty hardcore conservatives, at least for the older generation. vietnam, china,etc. thats why you seem them “rallying” with right/white supremacists quite often, also older millennials(35+) tend to gear towards conservatism more than progressivism/left leaning ideology. Or at the most they support some left leaning, but does not like things gay marriage,weed,drugs,etc. i know people that are this way. also notice asians that have at least some religious upbringing, either christianity or buddhism(funny enough) and left the religion partially, but became more right wing when trump came around. i knew someone early in college that was a vietnamese immigrant, he was very PRO-BUSH,war. and yes i am asians.
you’re vietnamese or?
I’ve seen them saying it was fine because the students wanted to be killed. Insane
Yeah, just bizarre.
I was willing to listen to them until I was the target of completely unfounded censorship. I figured, meh maybe they have a few nuggets of wisdom. They called me a racist and a xenophobe for a meme I made that neither contained racism or race.
can you link that comment? did ya get banned?
That’s all they do, is engage in name-calling. Nothing actually productive. They’re just a bunch of name-callers.
Here’s my 2¢ on how that kinda post might’ve been effective propaganda on me if I just saw it in the background long enough.
I grew up in America in a conservative area and everyone saw wealth as success and legitness. I now find myself beliving that if you live in excessive luxury that you are part of the problem. I can see how learning Stalin didn’t have much when he died would appeal to a certain leftist in me and changes the emperor tone I originally picture him with.
I have other issues with Stalin, but maybe if I’d’ve lived on .ml long enough those kinda posts could’ve slowly changed what comes to mind when I think of him.
I have other issues with Stalin, but maybe if I’d’ve lived on .ml long enough those kinda posts could’ve slowly changed what comes to mind when I think of him.
Conservative estimates state that Stalin was directly responsible for twenty million deaths.
There is no charm offensive that will “slowly change what comes to mind” when thinking of Joseph Stalin.
Well I’m no historian. I didn’t have that number. My point is that I don’t think about Stalin that much, and, without grounding, posting about how minimalist Stalin was sounds like a decently effective way to change how I view him.
It sounds like you’ve got a much more detailed understanding of Stalin than I do.
it’s very much a us-centrism position that most people from the US, meaning tankies, see Stalin. They don’t care for the Holodomor, most have never heard of it.
Anyone my age range or older would have no excuse for not knowing what kind of monster Stalin was. Anyone who has spoken to survivors who escaped his regime would never have the fucking audacity.
By comparison, Pol Pot was responsible for the killing fields in Cambodia. His murder spree is just a rounding error in Stalin’s body of work.
What about liberal estimates?
Triple that.
Isn’t that like ten holocausts?
20 million deaths
and how many of those were invading nazis?
and how many of those were invading nazis?
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig.
“Don’t believe the victims!”
Isn’t the part of a winning charm offensive.
Any quibbling you attempt in an effort to massage the numbers just dies, when you consider that the numbers you want to fiddle with are in the fucking millions.
My point is if they have to pad the stat with millions of dead nazis, what else are they willing to lie about?
i heard it on reddit first surprisingly enough. i always suspect it means extreme belief of whatever sub they were in.
Modern tankies are likely a spook psyop… Both foreign and domestic. They serve a useful purpose for both sides within the online eco systems
they’re the result of a psyop instead of directly being one.
tankies seems to boost conservatism idelogy more than they do for the “left”. because they have the same messaging and values.
well yeah they want to conserve authoritarianism
Based on how fucking bad they are at peddling their shit, my alternate theory is that they’ve been funded by some western democracy foundation, with the brief of making anything that is Warsaw Pact scented as unpalatable as humanly possible.
Like PETA working overtime to get people to hate Vegans.
Some people have made arguments that the leadership of the USSR simply replaced the old capitalist/aristocratic class and had access to their wealth through the levers of state power. I have not investigated the truthfulness of this claim, but I’m guessing this was a response to that talking point.
If they don’t have their name written on it, just use the estates and other expensive things all their life it’s technically not theirs. This is the tankie argument
“The people’s presidential ballroom”. Funny how well aligned out current capitalist leaders and the so-called communists can be.
Some people go as far to say that US is literally repeating USSR arc in some ways…
For example COVID is Chernobyl as it exposed that we are essentially ruled by nepo imbeciles. And people with any degree of independent thinking and competence get side lined.
Food prices and over all stagnation of the working people. Young people who have zero faith in the regime.
I mean…. They don’t hide who and what they are.
Lol I just got banned from deprogram for saying the Xi pooh meme wasn’t inherently racist and that people used as a form of mockery of an authoritarian leader… Some idiot actually tried to argue “do you call all heads of state authoritarians or just communists?” Like bro, the only reason I don’t call myself a communist is because I think it doesn’t go far enough…
But they don’t actually care about communism as a project or theory or even the people it claims to empower; they just want the boot to be on the other foot.
also you should post that ban message to !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
It’s funny considering the meme originated by the Chinese.
Hm, is this meme making fun of Xi trying to appear tough?
No, the Chinese must have made a racist caricature of being Chinese!
Mocking dear leader is racists…
Note how your hardcore tankie will not even question daddy trump… hmmm
When I first started hearing their kind of talk in high school 20 years ago, it was from the Chinese students. Well not the ones whose families fled China due to being non-Han or their kids being girls. But the ones who liked China, they’re the ones that said all these talking points that I’m hearing again from “tankies” 20 years later.
Probably kids of rich parents. If you’re from a normal lower class family, there’s no way you’d acrually think China is better.
My older brother and I are both anti-CCP so that’s 2/2. (Although he’s still a piece of shit and I hate him for other reasons)
