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checks my sexual orientation
that tracks(my preferred distro)
I don’t know why people hate snap so much and at this point I’m afraid to ask.
Recently had an issue where I deployed something with Docker but it wasn’t working properly for a few people in the business. It turned out to be the people who installed Docker with Snap. The main reason to use Docker is so that it works the same across different OSs and setups, but Snap managed to come along and ruin that.
glances around nervously
That’s why I originally installed and tried to use snap…
It’s the worst possible implementation of distro independent binary delivery, highly dependent on a gazillion other things to barely operate, is counterintuitive as soon as you start using it, depends on canonical goodwill (which is always in a state of flux), actually mostly work everywhere but really only work correctly on a very limited subset of distributions, and requires a lot of work to basically achieve nothing more than what already existed OR any of the alternatives that are more lightweight, easier to implement for developers, easier to use of end users.
tl;dr: it’s not great
Basically, if a task calls for snap, use Flatpak
Close source, not easily uninstallable from an otherwise open system, dependency/the only way of using many programs. See the similarities with play services? Canonical is the Google of linux.
Got it, thanks. I am new to Linux but it seemed like it could be alright. They talked about apps being sandboxed and containerized. Not a good thing then, I take it? Is it just bad implementation?
They talked about apps being sandboxed and containerized
The idea is usually good. But not always; some application have to interact with others, requiring inordinate amount of tinkering to make them work: disabling some security features, giving access to way more mount points than required (usually doing so manually), etc. It’s also an issue when a piece of software requires access to some capabilities that are not exactly standardized, although ymmv on that point.
Also note that some of the promised features are not inherent to snap, but to snap implementation on a vanilla ubuntu system. Meaning snap can exist on other systems, but won’t do everything as advertised.
Also also, but that’s more of a discussion topic, there is the point of defining the attack model you want to defend against. Sandboxing everything is interesting on paper. But the amount of hassle vs. the actual benefits, especially for individual computers, doubly so on non tech-savvy users that will likely just follow whatever tutorial is available online to make things work when they seem to break, is not great.
Relatively simpler solutions, like flatpak, mitigate some of the most annoying points to improve usability by end-users. AppImage goes a step further by just being the program and his dependency running raw. And then there’s the native OS packaging system; this should be the simplest for end users, but there’s usually no sandboxing (although it is possible to do), and requires more work from developers/maintainers. It’s a matter of compromises. But snap is on the far end while being not very good and very annoying, which irks people.
Amazing explanation! Thank you!!
Bad implementation, flatpak is much better or just normal packages
Thanks for the clarification! Could never get comfortable with Ubuntu when I’ve tried it. Sounds like I dodged a bullet!
It basically became a meme.
My mom always said I could be anything when I grew up!
Some people also hate systemd
systemd is (was, at this point) a big change, but improved to the point it feels like an upgrade over older solutions.
All the family of
systemd-*services that were re-implemented for the lulz, broke existing features for years, and barelly reached the level of what they are replacing, however, are like the worst idea ever, handled by some lunatics that truly believe they can do better from scratch than simple, standard software that had decades of improvement.I don’t see snap ever becoming better than flatpak at any point.
Is that the older friend of snap?
Almost any environment issue is because somehow snap fucked up some system configuration, and it can’t be undone
The hate for snap on Linux forums always felt weird to me, I’ve literally never had issues with Firefox snap. I understand being frustrated with it on the principle that it feels Windows-y to force it on the system, but the Firefox snap is packaged by Mozilla and bundles the latest Mesa libraries instead of using the older libraries from the Debian repos that don’t have the latest performance fixes, so its also faster than installing through .deb. And Mozilla has Debian repos for Firefox you can add to your sources.list if you really insist. There’s also nothing preventing you from installing Flatpak and using that on Ubuntu.
Try to use any native extension from your browser, integrate with external password managers, or use third-party PKCS tokens, and you’ll start having less fun.
For me it was the forced automatic updates that made me lose data or waste time numerous times. One was doing taxes, another a full rework of my LinkedIn when I was out of work. I’d complete everything on the web page, press enter, and be greeted with a page telling me to restart to continue using Firefox.
You also only have the ability to pause it, no actual stopping it.
exactly. i don’t want anything on linux to update automatically.
i want to
sudo apt update && sudo apt -y upgradeand watch the console go brrrrrrrr
That’s extremely weird, I’ve never heard of Firefox not letting you browse until you update. When snap auto-updates Firefox there’s usually a notification bubble asking to close your browser to update but you can dismiss it and keep browsing in my experience.
It did it to me enough that I blocked firefox from talking to mozilla. I put it on a squid proxy for a few weeks and harvested every mozilla related address it touched and blocked them all. No more updating when I didn’t want it and forcing me to reload in the middle of something.
i’ve always seen hate for it with reasons why
Debian is just Ubuntu before they add Snap.
Or, remove snap from Ubuntu:
# Remove snap if [ -n "$(which snap 2>/dev/null)" ]; then SNAPS=$(snap list |awk '{print $1}' |grep -v Name) for SNAP in ${SNAPS} do; snap remove ${SNAP}; done sudo systemctl stop snapd sudo systemctl stop snapd.socket sudo systemctl disable snapd sudo systemctl mask snapd sudo apt purge snapd -y sudo apt-mark hold snapd sudo cat <<EOF | sudo tee /etc/apt/preferences.d/nosnap.pref Package: snapd Pin: release a=* Pin-Priority: -10 EOF rm -rf ~/snap sudo rm -rf /snap sudo rm -rf /var/snap sudo rm -rf /var/lib/snapd # Add needed repositories sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mozillateam/ppa -y echo ' Package: * Pin: release o=LP-PPA-mozillateam Pin-Priority: 1001 Package: thunderbird Pin: version 2:1snap* Pin-Priority: -1 ' | sudo tee /etc/apt/preferences.d/thunderbird sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xtradeb/apps -y fiThat is a lot of code that could have been a single command.
replace newlines with semicolons
I would love to see a single command that removes snap, cleans disk, keeps snap from reinstalling, and adds repos to replace packages lost.
Is this something that happens on Ubuntu or something? My Debian system hasn’t pulled in any snap stuff to my knowledge.
Yup, it’s an Ubuntu thing.
No idea why someone would run Ubuntu and then be surprised that snaps are enabled.
EDIT:
Yes, I already knew that Canonical keeps re-enabling snaps even if you uninstall/disable it - my original statement still stands.Exactly. If you’re an Ubuntu user and don’t mind snaps, great. If you’re an Ubuntu user and hate snaps, why not just use one of the thousand other distros out there that don’t have snap?
It’s not that they’re enabled, it’s that they can re-enable themselves after updates even if the users disables Snaps and removes snapd.
Had this issue with Ubuntu on my Dads laptop before I switched it to Debian.
Sounds like something Microsoft would do!
Its something capitalism does.
You didn’t hear that Microsoft is getting into Linux? They’re going to call it mi-cux
Ubuntu is propped up by Microsoft (Azure)
@fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com posted a how-to to get rid of snap permanently by using apt pinning:
404 :/
Strange. The link no longer works for me either. Anyway, it’s here under this post:
Debian is just Ubuntu before they add Snap.
Or, remove snap from Ubuntu:
…
My first mention. I’m honored.
On Ubuntu, even if you remove all snaps and snapd, apt commands are hijacked and will reinstall everything if you touch certain packages. The better solution is to not use anything from Canonical.
No idea why someone would run Ubuntu. Full Stop.
This is a post I made on r/BuyFromEU a few months ago. Could help you understand why would someone use it.
Despite its relative skewed reputation among online Linux enthusiast, Ubuntu has remained the most downloaded and support Linux distribution to this day.
These are my reasons for picking this distro specifically:
- A unique user interface. A common theme I noticed on this subreddit is recommending Linux Mint as a drop in replacement for Windows due to its similar UI - this is perfectly valid but I appreciate Ubuntu’s unique layout and workflow. I got used to it very quickly and I now can’t even use Windows without placing my taskbar on the left.
Tap the Windows (super) key once to bring up all of your running apps on the workspace, tap it twice to bring up the app launcher. This makes a lot of sense and makes it easier to navigate the open apps for me.
I could write about a lot more things I like about its UI, such as how you can just start typing inside of the file manager to start searching, but the point is that a different UI from Windows doesn’t mean you can’t ever get used to it or like it. One thing I really love is notifications appearing on the top of the screen just like on Android/ios. It’s a small thing but they count too.
- Long term support. Have you ever felt like you just want to keep using your Windows PC until it dies and only receive security updates? Every Ubuntu is supported for 10 years and you can always select that you want to install security updates only. I have a laptop with Ubuntu 22.04 and it’s still running just fine, and it will keep doing so until 2032.
By default you get 5 years of support, and to get the other 5 you have to make an account and attach your device to it. I know, I know, accounts are bad because Microsoft is ran by morons who won’t let you even boot up your device without one, but the company behind Ubuntu has to live somehow. They wouldn’t be able to get money from companies who run thousands of workstations if everyone got such long support for free. Companies pay for it, you as an individual get it for free. No personal data are required either.
- Personality. Yes, it is subjective, hence the title of this post. The purple and orange color scheme is iconic, they even have their own font, every new version is named after some animal with a unique wallpaper made just for it. When watching videos I sometimes notice a computer with Ubuntu on it, and can pinpoint what version that is, what was special about it.
I dug deeper and discovered that in the past Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu, tried making a phone which failed. It had a user interface which would be used across both the desktop and mobile phones. But it turns out the community (UBPorts) is keeping it alive. The fact that a company tried launching a phone and failed doesn’t make Ubuntu a better operating system than let’s say Debian or Fedora. I just feel like it’s a very unique company with a rich history that’s fun to learn about.
The elephant in the room, the snap package manager
Yes, Ubuntu partially switched to this form of software distribution. If you don’t even know what a package manager is, you can ignore this. I’m including this section because someone will eventually mention it in the comments. Snaps aren’t bad or evil by any means. If you heard that they are bad, I encourage you to give this a read and then make your own opinion instead of parroting whatever someone said.
From my experience it is people who used Linux 15 years ago and are just now coming back
They missed the part where Ubuntu enshitified
For me it was the entry point, I heard everywhere it is the “beginners distro”. That was about 4 years ago, now sentiment changed and people are recommending Mint instead.
work requirement 😔
Still better than windows.
absolutely
…needs of shoe-horning linux on to microsoft device :(
TL;DR (Summary)
zr0 is expressing a flat rejection of Ubuntu as a valid Linux choice, likely due to Canonical’s decisions around Snap and other user-hostile defaults. They see no redeeming reason for anyone to run Ubuntu — especially with better alternatives like Debian or Arch available.List all said “decisions and defaults” that would incur such an unfavorable verdict from a seasonned linux user ?
- Snap Package System (snapd)
This feels to many like vendor lock-in — a betrayal of open-source ideals. - Data Collection (“Ubuntu Phone Home”)
Though anonymized, the default opt-in raised privacy concerns - Amazon Search Integration in Dash (Ubuntu 12.10–16.04)
Eventually removed, but left a lasting stain on Canonical’s reputation. - Abandoning MIR and Unity — Then Reversing
- Bundling Bloat / Non-Free Software by Default
- Canonical’s Commercial Focus
- LTS-Only Philosophy in Flavors and PPAs
- Centralized Development Model
Ubuntu is technically “open source,” but most decisions come top-down from Canonical.
Snap is developed behind closed doors, then pushed downstream. - System Resource Usage
Ubuntu’s GNOME desktop and background services (like Snap, Tracker, etc.) are heavy on RAM and CPU. - Difficulty Removing Canonical Components
Removing Snap, cloud-init, or motd-news (system message ads) often takes manual, repeated effort.
System update may reintroduce unwanted packages.
This gives a feeling of a system that’s working against the user.
Do you agree with that assessment user “zr0” ?
- Snap Package System (snapd)
It’s about Snap being an impurgeable rootkit on your machine. It’s the same as Onedrive or Copilot on Windows.
Least insane online Linux user take
My surprise would be something like “what’s snap didn’t I remove whatever that was”.
Around 2021, I regularly ran into this problem with the Firefox snap. It had various runtime issues, so I preferred the traditional deb package. I’d uninstall the snap then install the deb. Then, some days later, I’d find the snap was somehow installed again. This happened a few times before I realized that the deb was just installing the snap. Imo, that’s not a good design. Debs should be debs and snaps should be snaps.
Anyhow, I use Arch now, btw. Much more consistent experience.
Somewhat unorthodox but on my Deian system I’ve for a long time just installed the firefox tar.bz package from mozilla.org in /usr/local with /usr/local/firefox/firefox liinked to /usr/local/bin/firefox. Updated system wide whenever necessary. Lately I just installed the .deb from mozilla.org allowed it to add its’ own repo to /etc/apt/sources.list.d and have been living happily after.
on linux mint this strip is only two panels long
Kubuntu 25.10 minimal install doesnt put snaps on your system, a quick script later and I’ve got Firefox, Steam and Heroic official .deb files installed and running, then run this to make sure it never comes back:
sudo apt-mark hold snapd
Snap is a pain in the ass eating the bandwidth when it’s low (like in roaming). Yeah I know I should move from ubuntu !
It also eats your RAM! My VPS has 512MB and I noticed snapd was running all the time and causing my programs to get oom killed
Wait, are you running Ubuntu on 512? Or do you actually need snap for some reason? Why run Ubuntu as your VPS?
Sorry, I’m not too knowledgeable. Actually asking.
Because the providers only have a few options for OSes and I already know the apt names of packages
I could try Debian, but just uninstalling snap already worked
It also kills validation. You think you know what’s installed, but you have 4 copies of it and 3 of them have been sploited and you have no clue.
All that shit - appimage, snaps, containers - they all hide versions and signed manifests from you while still being terrible in other ways.
Tmobile has been trying to do that to me since yesterday. “Complete your setup” notification I deleted half a dozen times and the one time I mistapped brought up a bright magenta blank page but after closing I found they had shoved 8 game shortcuts into my system. Deleted those and the notification returned.had to disable the t-life notification to kill it
I’d recommend looking into LineageOS or other custom ROMs to nix that kind of bullshit
Waiting for the day they finally drop it… … like unity … like mir … like ubuntu mobile (or whatever it was called)
I doubt it
They are way to invested to stop now
