Conservatives wanted to stop immigration long before 2008…

Exactly. 15 people in Gitmo is still a moral stain on the nation, but at least some semblance of progress was made. Not fast enough, still terrible, etc.

Trump is vowing to make that - just numerically - 2,000 times worse than the current numbers. And that’s just looking at raw numbers, not even getting into the ethics of the people themselves (do we really think they’ll be even half as rigorous as the shit level of rigor for former/current prisoners if they’re trying to capture thirty thousand people?).

Unfortunately they’ve backed down already: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/26/world/americas/colombia-us-deportation-flights.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sU4.SJeu.KLeSKsinK61Z

But… I’m not okay with giving up one group, nor excusing genocide. We must be having two different discussions, because I got the impression you were advocating for simply rolling over and giving up.

What I was getting at is that participating in an immoral system, only inasmuch as wasting a little time to vote for a lesser evil, can help us achieve our aims when taking action outside the ballot box. It’s easier to fight genocide against one group than genocide against many groups, right?

It’s only “demonic” if voting is the only action you take to flight fascism. The reason to vote for the lesser evil, IMHO, is that the less evil option tends to be easier to fight.

Are you suggesting we should just go for a speedrun through the list, then?

What’s the cutoff?

Maybe it’s just my own bias, but I assumed the advice comes from people who have been or are lonely, and are talking about what helped them.

The worst depths of loneliness I’ve had were when I lived in a country where I didn’t speak the language well, and was in a tiny, tiny town. The way I got out of it was threefold. One was being kinder to myself. I indulged myself in just being alone. Watching movies on my laptop and trying my hand at creative writing, which I had always wanted to do, but hadn’t done. The second was getting into better physical shape. Even half assing it made me feel better: I’m a biologist so I can attest to the fact that one’s mental health improves with a little healthier physical body, if it’s possible. Finally…I just had to be comfortable being awkward. I was the bizarre foreigner who didn’t understand customs or the language, and even when I had assholes being kind of a jerk… Whatever! I just did my thing, went to social events as regularly as I could stomach (once a week ish), and was surprised at how after a month or so, things really did turn around. I found asking questions to be a way to get to know people and places. Other people love to talk and answer questions, even when you didn’t ask a question: as we’ve all seen in this thread.

None of that is to say it will work for everyone, or even anyone else… But I understand the pain of loneliness. So if sharing my experience can help anyone, please grant me some leniency if I’m being a tone deaf jerk, because that’s not my intent!

Is there a succinct way of articulating why we can’t do both? (e.g. vote for the lesser evil while also doing all the mutual aid and whatnot that we can?) Does it boil down to the argument that voting makes people less likely to build said alternative power structures?

I’ll watch the video when I have time, but communicating an actionable strategy I think is essential to folks in crisis.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

• some guy who doesn’t know much about “Real Communism”

Communism doesn’t argue people are all equal in abilities: but instead it argues that people’s needs should be met, regardless.

This doesn’t mean we all should live in the same identical brick huts, either. We just shouldn’t be so barbaric that we let people starve to death in a gutter, even if it’s because of their own failures.

My point was that we should all reflect, and not just assume that we’re correct all the time.

Nowhere in my comment did I suggest we should only focus on the worst major political party in the USA, nor am I defending the idealized image people have of the states. American exceptionalism has always been terrible propaganda, and the only silver living I’ve seen from this trump era is that more people are aware of how shit most US parties are, and the depths of the myths we’ve been fed in this nation.

I’ll disagree that the other options are 100% as morally bankrupt as trump’s group of billionaires and conspiracy theorists, but if you’re talking about Democrats I’d argue they’re only nearly as morally bankrupt, so it’s far from a defense of the party. Maybe 90% as morally bankrupt? 95ish?

You should reflect because it’s the correct thing to do.

What vote would have - even slightly - reduced Palestinian suffering in the short term. What would reduce it in the long term? Have new actions or moves by Israel changed what you thought months ago? Has the incoming administration signalled moves that will change the trajectory, relative to the current admin?

These are all things we need to reflect on

One of the most on the nose scenes in the Wire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6r2a2PaQPI

The conversation (copied from IMDB)

Detective James ‘Jimmy’ McNulty : Guy leaves two dozen bodies scattered all over the city, no one gives a fuck.

Detective Lester Freamon : It’s because who he dropped.

Detective William ‘Bunk’ Moreland : True that. You can go a long way in this country killin’ black folk. Young males especially. Misdemeanor homicides.

Detective James ‘Jimmy’ McNulty : If Marlo was killin’ white women…

Detective Lester Freamon : White children.

Detective William ‘Bunk’ Moreland : Tourists.

Detective James ‘Jimmy’ McNulty : One white ex-cheerleader tourist missin’ in Aruba.

Detective William ‘Bunk’ Moreland : Trouble is, this ain’t Aruba, bitch.

Detective Lester Freamon : You think that if 300 white people were killed in this city every year, they wouldn’t send the 82nd Airborne? Negro, please.

Accuracy: the most important part of humor! It’s so crucial to comedy that I have never, not in a million years, seen someone exaggerate for humorous effect. It’s simply not done in civil society: so I thank you for the bravery you’ve shown by shining light on this horrid case of inaccurate humor.

I grew up in the southeastern US, so I’m used to casual chitchat with strangers just being the polite thing to do. I’ve had to learn not to do so, at least in most cases, now that I live up north.

It’s especially odd because I’m an introvert by nature, but present as an extrovert because of my cultural upbringing.

Military industrial complex

I really wonder why you get offended by “We should try to minimize the use of psychatric drugs, where therapy is a viable alternative”?

What you said here wouldn’t ruffle nearly as many feathers, because IMHO in your other post you buried the lede.

It’s definitely good to say that we need better access to therapy, and to improve societal conditions, since many people would be healthier with those instead of drugs. We’d all benefit!

Then there’s proposals by hardcore wingnuts like RFK that…are unreasonable to the point of doing outright harm. You just got confused for the latter, I guess. I wasn’t sure about your first comment, either.

I’m not following your argument, though I am slightly drunk. The disproportionate representation that’s the focus of the post means that less than 51% of the populace could wield the levers of power in the Senate. That’s minority rule, which is even worse than mob rule.

I get that mob rule is bad, and that we need checks in place to curb the possibility of abuses of power, but I see that as necessitating laws for super majorities and ranked choice or other ways of ensuring less extreme representatives getting into power.

Exactly! I also haven’t bought more than ten items from Walmart in the last fifteen years.

It can cost a little more, and requires patience, but I can think of very few times I’ve actually needed (versus wanted) some item before I could get it not via Amazon or Walmart. Even with the added expense for some individual items I’d wager I’ve spent less overall since it makes impulse purchases easier to avoid.

It’s probably not amounting to much in the way of resisting these mega corps, but it isn’t as difficult as some folks imagine.

Outer Wilds gave me that sensation