Normal israelis used to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. But regular missile attacks and air raid sirens desensitised them in recent times.
Israelis nearly got rid of Netanyahu, but attacks like Oct 7 galvanised the public behind him.
I lived the resistance of the ANC in the late 80s. Umkhonto weSiswe was a lot less prominent by then since the change in strategy. The remnants of that movement nearly derailed the entire process.
What I am advocating for is that in all similar situations around the world, armed attacks on the civilians of the other side have NEVER resulted in success. Not when there is a power disparity like this. They need to be removed from the strategy.
Normal israelis used to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
For all the good that did Palestinians. The fact of the matter is that no serious attempt at a two state solution (if we even consider Oslo that) has come from Israel since Rabin, and we all know how that ended. Israeli “support” for Palestinian liberation is too fickle and too noncommittal to be counted on as a basis for anything, and peace talks between the PA and Israel would remain as farcical as ever even as support for a two-state solution hit its peak (about 70%). As MLK describes in A Letter from a Birmingham Jail, “later” and “if you behave” have always been synonyms for “never” in liberation politics. To repeat: There was only one man willing and capable to make significant “concessions” to end the conflict, and Israelis killed him and elected Hitler for it. By the time “normal Israelis” can get their heads out of their asses and stop their ethnic cleansing project, Palestine won’t exist for them to benefit form this oh so gracious change of heart.
But regular missile attacks and air raid sirens desensitised them in recent times.
Israeli support for a two-state solution peaked after the notoriously violent Second Intifada, so I’m not convinced the amount of violence exercised by Palestinians is playing a significant role here. What’s more likely is that the late 90s and early 2000s were an anomaly and now Israel is experiencing a pendulum swing in the opposite direction, helped along by the rise of fascism in Western-aligned democracies.
Israelis nearly got rid of Netanyahu, but attacks like Oct 7 galvanised the public behind him.
They were going to get rid of him because he’s corrupt, not because support for his agenda had soured. Case in point: They refuse to get rid of him, even though an overwhelming majority wants him to resign, because they’re prioritizing the genocide.
I lived the resistance of the ANC in the late 80s. Umkhonto weSiswe was a lot less prominent by then since the change in strategy.
The late 80s was after most prerequisite progress had already happened and reform was a serious prospect; this is like saying “see? The Good Friday Agreement proves violence was unnecessary in North Irish liberation!” Like, of course violence will be less necessary with serious talks underway; the problem is forcing those talks to happen in the first place. By the way, you said in your original comment that the ANC had stopped its armed struggle, so why are you contradicting yourself?
What I am advocating for is that in all similar situations around the world, armed attacks on the civilians of the other side have NEVER resulted in success.
I’m not advocating attacking civilians specifically, but… North Ireland? What do you think the IRA was doing?
The image you’re pushing of exclusively nonviolent resistance to settler colonialism is simply not backed by reality, as shown by your own example.
You think it’s an execuse that some genocides are not acceptable because the people who denounce them have super brains, but Israeli’s genocide is acceptable because Israelis cannot denounce aparthied and genocide because their brains cannot accept the truth, and so we should let them keep at it? ?!?!
Why is it that 99.9% of Israeli scholars and proffessors are anti Zionism? All their educated are anti Zionist despite how many rockets their country regualrly intercepts from Hamas.
Israelis are indoctrinated with Zionism and Jewish superamcy literally seeing Palestinians as non-humans. They refuse to open their eyes to the truth because they’re too happy dancing next to besieged open-air prison, and enjoy previliges no one on this earth does.
You don’t think unchecked power corrupts??
Well, literally a settler can come up to you, shoot you dead and nothing will happen to him. The court will grant him your mom’s house which your family lived in before their country was even created, then come the next day protected by soliders to kick your family out. This is not an exaggeration, this happens in 2025 in the West Bank where there is no Hamas and the PA work under the IOF to oppress you.
Palestinian Mandelas have rotten in prisons unheard of, and peacful marchings and Palestinain Ghandis were met with bullets and death for decades. South Africa’s aparthied only ended AFTER the world sanctioned them to nonexistance while in Israel’s case, not only there has never been a boycott, the world strongest economies enable them with $billions year after year and the Palestinain cause was dead.
On October-8-2023, the Western democracies of the world including France, Italy, UK, Spain and even the Arab dictatorships were siding with the occupying genocidal aparthied sucking Netynyahu’s dick and it’s on Youtube until this day.
And before Oct-7 2023, it was dead and the Arab dictatorships were normalizing relationships with a genocidal ethnostate under the US approval left and right. You cannot ask people to accept living as slaves when you only have one earthly existance. You either die slowly on your knees in silent, or die on your feet resisting, and they chose the harder bloodier latter because the first has not worked.
Your comments make complete sense in the context that both sides have been radicalized against each other for the benefit of a very small group of leaders on both sides. They are the real enemies
There will never be peace in the region until the radicalisation cycles can be broken. That’s where their power comes from.
and your comment makes as much sense as the picture in this post… because one side wants a supremacy genocidal aparthied while the other side just want to live.
They both just want to live. It’s the small groups of oligarchs that have convinced them they want other things. Either greater israel, or a Palestine with no Jews.
There is no way either party can get that.
Don’t forget there is a large number of non-jewish people living as Israeli citizens. Almost 30% of the population.
It’s part of the reason I would argue that a one state solution is the better option. A combined nation with one political and legal structure. That way the Current Jewish majority is diluted down to less than 50%. The only way to kill apartheid is to integrate the societies more closely. But that’s unlikely to happen as long as Israel is supported by the US and the local middle eastern nations don’t support the Palestinians though economic support and sanctions.
Palestine without Jews?!?!? There were Jews in Palestine living in peace alongside muslims and christians long before Israel was even created!
Stop the false info that never happened. When has there ever a palestinian doctrine or accord, or government or leader who claimed to want “A pAlIsTiNe wItH nO jEwS” ? What year was that? 1937 British mandate? 1948 Nakba? 1970 David camp? 1993 Oslo accords? In each one of these they ethnically cleansed and occupied more from Palestine and turned Israel into the aparthied it is.
Why are you repeating Zionist bs that is did not happen? Give me your sources, and let’s read them out and discuss them.
Meanwhile, go read the Yinon and Herzl plan, and Ben Gurion letters, which are considered the fathers of zionism.
Do these names sound Semetic to you btw if you even know what that word means?
Just google this shit and read what Zionism was built on from the start and it is WHAT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN DONE. We see the genocidal aparthied on video! It’s not theoritical!
Again respectfully I’m ignorant about so much history about so many parts of this world. I need to watch and read just like you need to at least watch these two parts and tell me if you still think Palestinian Mandelas and Palestinian Ghandis were the solution. Also tell me when and where the fuck is that Palestinain doctrine that started killing Jews and demanded Palestine without Jews.
tell me if you still think Palestinian Mandelas and Palestinian Ghandis were the solution.
Not them, but to be fair Mandela literally founded these guys. Nelson Mandela is heavily whitewashed by liberal media, but just like the original Mandela Palestine’s Mandela is probably in Gaza right now shooting Zionist scum.
I think you misunderstand my intentions. I am also looking the project of zionism to be eradicated. It’s as evil as the Nazi movement, or the Islamic eradication of other cultures, or the Christian Inquisitions and crusades.
Regardless of the history and what was said/promised/agreed, the only plan that will work is one that focuses on the current population on the ground.
A secular, irreligious, democracy that erases the apartheid boundaries is the only solution that does not perpetuate the conflict.
The two state solution is inherently unfair, because as you say, each time it’s on the table, the palestinians get less and less. In a democratic one state solution, they get an equal portion relative to their population (including the diaspora)
Apart from political power, You will also need a marshal plan type reconstruction effort to uplift, the war ravaged population and protect them from extremism and external exploitation by foreign governments. Fortunately, there is enough wealth in the Israeli economy to pay for a multi-generational reconstruction plan.
Yes I’ve heard so many discusstions about what the solution should be, and you’re right the one with most real results is not two-state but actually one.
It should stop the killing and start giving full equal rights regardless of your religious affliation.
Realistically, the real solution should start by a complete uprising that brings a new government to Israel, a new represitive-to-all one, a non-zionisit one, a new constitution to this aparthied colonial ethnostate, even expect that it will get a new name. That’s the reality. The Nazi government should fall and get replaced just like Hitler went out.
If Netynyahu went and Neftali Bennet came to power, not only nothing will change, it will get worse.
The aparthied genocidal system is currently built-in Israel’s constition, and Zionism mandates genocidal ethnic cleansing. The current Israeli population needs an uprising that brings its governemnt down and replaced. Netenyahu is not the problem; He is the symptoms of their indoctrinated bigotted racist genocidal population.
This real solution I’m talking about will not come by paper-signing agreements; In what world could you simply ask these powerful, super wealthy, blood thirsty, child-maiming, hostage raping, refugee burning, sadistic demonic war criminals to give up their superiority and control, and they would just go?
It cannot and will not be peacful. And that’s where I sensed our disagreement is on. You think it will be peacful, or demand and expect slaves to accept occuption and stay slaves forever, or balme them for resorting to armed resistance, to me that’s crazy nonsense unrealistic talk.
That’s why I know this real solution I’m talking about is far away, and sometimes I feel you and me may die before seeing it happen.
I don’t disagree. It will not be peaceful. You are correct, Israelis have most of the power. But those in power in their government will never go peacefully.
Netanyahu is still unpopular and faces prosecution if the war ever stops. Israelis just support Genocide because it’s gotten more and more religiously conservative over time and their religion states:
Deuteronomy 20:
16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.
This is why the only chance they have is if they both give up their religions. The oligarchs are just using it to justify the violence. They need to be strictly secular. No religion in government, courts or schools.
Normal israelis used to be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. But regular missile attacks and air raid sirens desensitised them in recent times.
Israelis nearly got rid of Netanyahu, but attacks like Oct 7 galvanised the public behind him.
I lived the resistance of the ANC in the late 80s. Umkhonto weSiswe was a lot less prominent by then since the change in strategy. The remnants of that movement nearly derailed the entire process.
What I am advocating for is that in all similar situations around the world, armed attacks on the civilians of the other side have NEVER resulted in success. Not when there is a power disparity like this. They need to be removed from the strategy.
For all the good that did Palestinians. The fact of the matter is that no serious attempt at a two state solution (if we even consider Oslo that) has come from Israel since Rabin, and we all know how that ended. Israeli “support” for Palestinian liberation is too fickle and too noncommittal to be counted on as a basis for anything, and peace talks between the PA and Israel would remain as farcical as ever even as support for a two-state solution hit its peak (about 70%). As MLK describes in A Letter from a Birmingham Jail, “later” and “if you behave” have always been synonyms for “never” in liberation politics. To repeat: There was only one man willing and capable to make significant “concessions” to end the conflict, and Israelis killed him and elected Hitler for it. By the time “normal Israelis” can get their heads out of their asses and stop their ethnic cleansing project, Palestine won’t exist for them to benefit form this oh so gracious change of heart.
Israeli support for a two-state solution peaked after the notoriously violent Second Intifada, so I’m not convinced the amount of violence exercised by Palestinians is playing a significant role here. What’s more likely is that the late 90s and early 2000s were an anomaly and now Israel is experiencing a pendulum swing in the opposite direction, helped along by the rise of fascism in Western-aligned democracies.
They were going to get rid of him because he’s corrupt, not because support for his agenda had soured. Case in point: They refuse to get rid of him, even though an overwhelming majority wants him to resign, because they’re prioritizing the genocide.
The late 80s was after most prerequisite progress had already happened and reform was a serious prospect; this is like saying “see? The Good Friday Agreement proves violence was unnecessary in North Irish liberation!” Like, of course violence will be less necessary with serious talks underway; the problem is forcing those talks to happen in the first place. By the way, you said in your original comment that the ANC had stopped its armed struggle, so why are you contradicting yourself?
I’m not advocating attacking civilians specifically, but… North Ireland? What do you think the IRA was doing?
The image you’re pushing of exclusively nonviolent resistance to settler colonialism is simply not backed by reality, as shown by your own example.
You think it’s an execuse that some genocides are not acceptable because the people who denounce them have super brains, but Israeli’s genocide is acceptable because Israelis cannot denounce aparthied and genocide because their brains cannot accept the truth, and so we should let them keep at it? ?!?!
Why is it that 99.9% of Israeli scholars and proffessors are anti Zionism? All their educated are anti Zionist despite how many rockets their country regualrly intercepts from Hamas.
Israelis are indoctrinated with Zionism and Jewish superamcy literally seeing Palestinians as non-humans. They refuse to open their eyes to the truth because they’re too happy dancing next to besieged open-air prison, and enjoy previliges no one on this earth does.
You don’t think unchecked power corrupts?? Well, literally a settler can come up to you, shoot you dead and nothing will happen to him. The court will grant him your mom’s house which your family lived in before their country was even created, then come the next day protected by soliders to kick your family out. This is not an exaggeration, this happens in 2025 in the West Bank where there is no Hamas and the PA work under the IOF to oppress you.
Palestinian Mandelas have rotten in prisons unheard of, and peacful marchings and Palestinain Ghandis were met with bullets and death for decades. South Africa’s aparthied only ended AFTER the world sanctioned them to nonexistance while in Israel’s case, not only there has never been a boycott, the world strongest economies enable them with $billions year after year and the Palestinain cause was dead.
On October-8-2023, the Western democracies of the world including France, Italy, UK, Spain and even the Arab dictatorships were siding with the occupying genocidal aparthied sucking Netynyahu’s dick and it’s on Youtube until this day.
And before Oct-7 2023, it was dead and the Arab dictatorships were normalizing relationships with a genocidal ethnostate under the US approval left and right. You cannot ask people to accept living as slaves when you only have one earthly existance. You either die slowly on your knees in silent, or die on your feet resisting, and they chose the harder bloodier latter because the first has not worked.
“Palestinian Nelson Mandela”
https://youtu.be/NJYNtwgesHU
Your comments make complete sense in the context that both sides have been radicalized against each other for the benefit of a very small group of leaders on both sides. They are the real enemies
There will never be peace in the region until the radicalisation cycles can be broken. That’s where their power comes from.
and your comment makes as much sense as the picture in this post… because one side wants a supremacy genocidal aparthied while the other side just want to live.
They both just want to live. It’s the small groups of oligarchs that have convinced them they want other things. Either greater israel, or a Palestine with no Jews.
There is no way either party can get that.
Don’t forget there is a large number of non-jewish people living as Israeli citizens. Almost 30% of the population.
It’s part of the reason I would argue that a one state solution is the better option. A combined nation with one political and legal structure. That way the Current Jewish majority is diluted down to less than 50%. The only way to kill apartheid is to integrate the societies more closely. But that’s unlikely to happen as long as Israel is supported by the US and the local middle eastern nations don’t support the Palestinians though economic support and sanctions.
Palestine without Jews?!?!? There were Jews in Palestine living in peace alongside muslims and christians long before Israel was even created!
Stop the false info that never happened. When has there ever a palestinian doctrine or accord, or government or leader who claimed to want “A pAlIsTiNe wItH nO jEwS” ? What year was that? 1937 British mandate? 1948 Nakba? 1970 David camp? 1993 Oslo accords? In each one of these they ethnically cleansed and occupied more from Palestine and turned Israel into the aparthied it is.
Why are you repeating Zionist bs that is did not happen? Give me your sources, and let’s read them out and discuss them.
Meanwhile, go read the Yinon and Herzl plan, and Ben Gurion letters, which are considered the fathers of zionism. Do these names sound Semetic to you btw if you even know what that word means?
Just google this shit and read what Zionism was built on from the start and it is WHAT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN DONE. We see the genocidal aparthied on video! It’s not theoritical!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinon_Plan
https://www.freesuriyah.eu/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/HerzlJFischmannJandYinon-TheGreaterIsrael.pdf
Just watch these by overzealots please because the history I read and know 10 years ago seems like news to you. we are not on the same page:
Part 1:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nXujfBBfvXU
Part 2:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D1gSrckT5G4
Again respectfully I’m ignorant about so much history about so many parts of this world. I need to watch and read just like you need to at least watch these two parts and tell me if you still think Palestinian Mandelas and Palestinian Ghandis were the solution. Also tell me when and where the fuck is that Palestinain doctrine that started killing Jews and demanded Palestine without Jews.
Not them, but to be fair Mandela literally founded these guys. Nelson Mandela is heavily whitewashed by liberal media, but just like the original Mandela Palestine’s Mandela is probably in Gaza right now shooting Zionist scum.
Why do you think Mandela changed his mind?
He didn’t, the Apartheid government did. They approached him for talks in 1980 and that got the ball rolling on everything else.
I think you misunderstand my intentions. I am also looking the project of zionism to be eradicated. It’s as evil as the Nazi movement, or the Islamic eradication of other cultures, or the Christian Inquisitions and crusades.
Regardless of the history and what was said/promised/agreed, the only plan that will work is one that focuses on the current population on the ground.
A secular, irreligious, democracy that erases the apartheid boundaries is the only solution that does not perpetuate the conflict.
The two state solution is inherently unfair, because as you say, each time it’s on the table, the palestinians get less and less. In a democratic one state solution, they get an equal portion relative to their population (including the diaspora)
Apart from political power, You will also need a marshal plan type reconstruction effort to uplift, the war ravaged population and protect them from extremism and external exploitation by foreign governments. Fortunately, there is enough wealth in the Israeli economy to pay for a multi-generational reconstruction plan.
Yes I’ve heard so many discusstions about what the solution should be, and you’re right the one with most real results is not two-state but actually one. It should stop the killing and start giving full equal rights regardless of your religious affliation.
Realistically, the real solution should start by a complete uprising that brings a new government to Israel, a new represitive-to-all one, a non-zionisit one, a new constitution to this aparthied colonial ethnostate, even expect that it will get a new name. That’s the reality. The Nazi government should fall and get replaced just like Hitler went out.
If Netynyahu went and Neftali Bennet came to power, not only nothing will change, it will get worse.
The aparthied genocidal system is currently built-in Israel’s constition, and Zionism mandates genocidal ethnic cleansing. The current Israeli population needs an uprising that brings its governemnt down and replaced. Netenyahu is not the problem; He is the symptoms of their indoctrinated bigotted racist genocidal population.
This real solution I’m talking about will not come by paper-signing agreements; In what world could you simply ask these powerful, super wealthy, blood thirsty, child-maiming, hostage raping, refugee burning, sadistic demonic war criminals to give up their superiority and control, and they would just go?
It cannot and will not be peacful. And that’s where I sensed our disagreement is on. You think it will be peacful, or demand and expect slaves to accept occuption and stay slaves forever, or balme them for resorting to armed resistance, to me that’s crazy nonsense unrealistic talk.
That’s why I know this real solution I’m talking about is far away, and sometimes I feel you and me may die before seeing it happen.
I don’t disagree. It will not be peaceful. You are correct, Israelis have most of the power. But those in power in their government will never go peacefully.
Netanyahu is still unpopular and faces prosecution if the war ever stops. Israelis just support Genocide because it’s gotten more and more religiously conservative over time and their religion states:
Deuteronomy 20: 16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.
This is why the only chance they have is if they both give up their religions. The oligarchs are just using it to justify the violence. They need to be strictly secular. No religion in government, courts or schools.