I touch grass for one full day and miss this thread? Oh well…
Hey hey don’t start with excuses. Russian/CCP bots don’t need to touch grass!
Oof, you caught me! lol
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We have three mainstream parties. Works with that too.
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And yet, still true.
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Terminally online leftist type shit
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More like…
The lever can reduce the speed of the trolley depending on which way you turn it, but regardless the trolley will gradually accelerate either way.
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We get 30 mana for every time we rile up a lib, and 1 dragonscale if the lib gets steam coming out of the ears.
lol fascist
Tell your handlers to give you a different script for Lemmy than the one they gave you for reddit, read the room
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Now that’s some aggressive debateme
Okay, I’ll bite. Let’s fight.
Harris would be worse. Reasons:
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bluemaga is more pro genocide when dem is prez.
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Separating europe from usa is more likely when trump is prez. (euro rulers hate him somehow, even though he’s just as dumb and evil as them)
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yes she prosecuted and jailed so many innocent innocent kids in her past, and then continued under her vice presidency with her decisions and under direct administration to get so many people raped and genocided. so is your question, did we prefer to vote to get little raped rather than super raped? some would argue the latter because it’d cause a crisis to the system that would get the people to wake up and do something about it while little rape would be just as painful and last forever without change.
so remimd me, do you prefer little rape and prosection for your immediate family only that lasts forever without any hope or anyone fighting for you? or would you rather all your city get raped and prosecuted but with hundrends of millions of people nationwide and globally fighting the system to end it and free you?
You win! How should I have handled the 2024 election differently to save my country, they who have all the answers?
Also, please explain, when my choices were ONLY a little rape and a lot of rape how stamping my feet and loudly explaining that rape is bad would accomplish…. What?
so many people stamping their feet and loudly explaining that rape is bad is what would help bring this raping system down
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Cause, broadly speaking, both parties are very similar. Both sit way to the right of the main parties in most countries.
Do I need to pull up the Webster definitions of similar and same for you?
You can do what you like, what I wouldn’t bother do is pointing out the difference in the two main USA political parties, cause there’s no point. One does fascism and mistreats the working class with a smile, one does it with an angry face.
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Counting felonies under the law of evil? Makes sense for a harris (cop) supporter.
ACAB
ACAB 100%.
Harris is not my first, second, or 100th choice. She’s demonstrably better than Temu Hitler though.
Just tell me this first, would a casually fascist president really make you feel that much better than an overtly fascist one?
It’s something I’m really struggling to get my head round…cause I can’t believe how far right USA parties are compared to U.K. ones….and we are fucked.
“Just let me avoid answering your question and… “ No. They’re demonstrably not the same, as evidenced by you inability to answer the question. Also basic common sense.
No, I don’t think Harris would have ICE roaming the streets.
But then I don’t see the point in differentiating between casual and overt fascism. Both are way to the right of me.
I’ll ask again…are you ok with casual fascism?
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Kinda crazy how democrats now are just like: “Yeah, I eat a plate of shit. I don’t like it, but they told me that was the only option. So I did it, I’m proud of it, and anyone else should be ashamed to not be eating shit like me.”
It’s kind of funny, that democrats would rather eat bug infested cereals over a shit sandwich, when they could also push for cereals to be actually clean.
Tells you a lot about those people.
If you make me eat shit or cockroaches, I’d rather leave, thanks.
And they’re only pretending that they don’t like the taste.
Nah it is more like. We all have been eating shit but majority thought it is steak. Lets all eat super mega shit so that majority will start to recognize.
not everyone wants to me a Marxist
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This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
The fact that there’s no discernible difference between the parties (or, worse, that Trump rhetorically can outflank Dems from the popular left) should cause Democrats to soul-search and come back with a better political strategy. Instead, we just get this dogmatic insistence that Liz Cheney and Michael Bloomberg are better options than Donald Trump, so you have to go pound pavement in the 100° weather knocking doors, begging friends and neighbors over the phone, and dipping into your kids’ college funds to “donate till it hurts” in an effort to get them elected.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both
It clearly is not. That’s the fucking problem. Telling people “go eat dogshit because its tastier than horseshit” and then bitching when your shit stand can’t break even is the root of the problem.
Time and time and time again, liberal Democrats run away from the popular candidates in favor of the candidates that can raise the most money. Time and time and time again, these candidates lose to Republicans who are raising money from the exact same evil assholes.
And when we finally fucking see a populist start winning in a bright blue city like NYC, you get the liberal media leadership saying this shit on national television.
Bill Maher raises concerns over Mamdani’s Ugandan citizenship on ‘Real Time’
It’s Birtherism all over again.
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if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent
Obviously they’re different. One’s got a big “D” next to her name and climbed into her California Senate seat through Jerry Brown’s bed sheets. The other one was a billionaire mega-donor to Hillary Clinton’s Senatorial and Presidential Primary campaigns, and hung out with her husband on trips down to Epstein Island. Also he became a Republican a few weeks after Obama won the Presidency.
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I’d also spout this kind of nonsense
What you’re doing is called “Denialism”. You don’t want to accept that Donald Trump was a staunch friend, financial supporter, and NYC powerbroker working on behalf of the Democratic Party for decades. So instead of facing this reality and what it means about the state of the party, you’re going to cover your ears and pretend it didn’t happen.
If Harris were president right now, would we have gestapo roaming the streets, Nazi ghouls mentioning plenary authority, or giant corporations settling with the FCC to curry favor?
As she seemed intent on continuing the policies of the prior administrations, the answer is clearly “Yes”. We had gestapo doing their dirty work all through the American Southwest going back to the Polk Administration. Bush created ICE, Obama expanded ICE, Trump expanded ICE, Biden expanded ICE, and Kamala Harris campaigned on a platform of anti-immigration that would require her to expand ICE.
Would we have goons like Steven Miller and Curtis Yarvin ranting about unitary executives and divine right of kings under a Harris Administration? Absolutely. Would they be operating in friendly Republican gubernatorial cabinets and think tanks and Congressional offices? Absolutely. Would they be setting national policy through the courts and the legislature and red state executive offices? Absolutely. If Republicans still commanded Congress, would they be authoring national policy that President Harris eventually signed into law? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Would Larry Ellison and Bob Iger and Satya Nadella be kicking back tens of millions of dollars to Republican allies via “settlements”? Would Citadel and JP Morgan be bribing politicians with large purchases of shitcoins to get around campaign contribution limits and other anti-corruption laws? 100% guaranteed. They were doing this shit before Trump took office. Why would they stop now?
Your problem isn’t that these fascist policies exist. Your problem is that they’ve breached “containment” in Red States. Now it’s not just a Texas problem or a Florida problem. Its an Everybody problem. You can’t just ignore the fascism anymore. You can’t say “Those fuckers down south are getting what they deserve”.
Now you’re down in the shit here with the rest of us. Welcome to hell, asshole.
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Brother, you’ve got a worse case of brain worms than some Kennedys I could name.
Both are shit sandwiches. Trying to use analogy to obfuscate willing participation in genocide, perpetuation of imperialism, brutalization of immigrants, etc doesn’t actually erase material reality.
Organize.
Libs are almost pathologically reliant on analogies even in the simplest of scenarios because talking about things as they really are is often indefensible and would necessitate saying the most ghoulish and monstrous shit
Yep, it’s all smoke and mirrors.
Yup, they’re both the same thing, as long as you ignore the evidence of your eyes, ears and heart.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
It’s almost like 2 genocidal fascists can’t be considered “good” to begin with.
It’s almost like ignoring everything about a person except 1 aspect of them makes you too ignorant to talk about it.
Go back to Reddit where your lack of critical thinking skills will help you fit in.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else, and as such they share far more in common than not. I’m not ignorant, and you can take your faux-superiority back. I’ve been here far longer than you have, telling me to go back to Reddit doesn’t make any sense. I’m a communist, the devs are communists, and a lot of communists are on Lemmy after various subreddits like r/GenZedong, r/TheDeprogram, and r/ChapoTrapHouse got banned. What I say fits in here.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else,
Hardly. Democrats made it clear that they care about netanyahu’s political career above all else.
The purpose of supporting Israel is so that it secures US interests in the region.
I’m not pretending America is the best country, or Harris would be the best for the world.
I have 0 interest in Defending her, but claiming they’re the same with a straight face is fucking laughable. America would be a better country internally and on the global stage with her in charge, by any metric that isn’t “burn all capitalism down”.
Here’s an easy one - would Harris have sent a citizen to CECOT without a trial? Obviously not, because she’s demonstrably different from Trump, like any 3 year old could determine.
The US Empire is the world’s worst country. It’s the biggest exporter of genocide and terror, and the world’s biggest plunderer. Harris would maintain that exact same brutal system, domestically and internationally. It’s not hard to be better than them. Yes, Harris would send people to CECOT without trial, every imperialist president has done acts like that.
Chill out with the calling everyone to your left a child or a Russian bot, etc. It’s the peak of liberalism.
She sent a transwoman to mens prison, who got raped and joked about it.
You’re pathetically trying to defend this evil ghoul:Under her jurisdiction, in “progressive” San Francisco, 56% of all inmates in SF jails were black, along with 40% of all arrests (Only 5.8% of the population is black). Ignores police brutality, protected 14 of her officers who were caught sending extremely racist text messages. Oversaw San Francisco’s felony conviction rate rising from 52% to 67% in only 3 years.
As part of her tough on crime approach she assigned senior prosecutors to misdemeanors like graffiti and vandalism, tripling the number of cases brought to trial. After a federal judge orders California to expand prison releases to reduce crowding, her office argued in court that if forced to release these inmates early, prisons would lose an important labor pool. Spent years jailing disproportionately black nonviolent cannabis users while opposing taking cannabis off DEA’s list of most dangerous substances and literally laughing at the idea of legalizing it multiple times, even as her Republican opponent ran to the left of her on the issue. She then tried to pander by admitting to smoking herself despite prosecuting others, but got her story all wrong. Drug convictions under her office soared, convicting more people of marijuana possession than her predecessor (she also admitted to smoking marijuana) 2 Laughs about threatening parents with jailtime for truancy. 2. The stories of several mothers she jailed. Pushed a law that forced schools to turn over undocumented students to ICE. Opposed reforming California’s three-strikes law, which is the only one in the country to impose life sentences for minor felonies and incarcerates black people at 12x the rate as white people, three different times, even while her Republican opponent supported reform. Tried to deny a transgender inmate healthcare and endangered trans women by forcing them into mens prisons, leading to the rape and torture of at least one trans inmate. Appealed a judge ruling that the death penalty was unconstitutional and won on a technicality, resulting in continued executions. Supports the controversial DNA search technique that can be used on people even if they’ve not been charged with a crime. Supported the discriminatory practice of cash bail in court, until 2016. Protected serial child rapists by refusing to prosecute in the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal. Lied about her state’s solitary confinement to block a suit by inmates, claiming there was none in California when there were about 6,400 victims of the practice, which is considered torture. Opposed legislation that would require independent investigation of fatal police shootings despite criticism from many civil rights advocates including California’s Legislative Black Caucus. Opposed statewide implementation of police body cameras and ignored police brutality, multiple officers raping a teenager, and other officers sharing racist and homophobic messages, despite multiple requests from the public defender. Stood by silently as $730 million was spent on moving inmates to for-profit private prisons.And as cherry on the cake fully complicit in a horrible genocide, and you want to claim she would hypothetically be better in the future? LOL
You really disgust me. You are not better but worse.
It’s the hypocrisy that bothers me most, at least one side has the balls to say they’re fascists.
Unlike you cowardly worms pretending to be good while being absolute scum.
Hope you all get slow cancer.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
No one’s buying that democrats are “the good” anymore. They’re not even “the adequate.”
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
Democrats needed to do more to differentiate themselves. But they’re still stuck in 1992 and think that if they just triangulate with fascists and treat their own base as hostages, that they’re entitled to victory.
You’re not “forced” to do anything.
There are 3rd parties as always. You can find reasons and excuses not to vote for them but that’s all on you.
Glad you ended up with Trump.
Fascists and fascist-lite voters deserve it.What a juvenile take that doesn’t take into account reality at all. From Reddit are you? Go back.
right simpleton.
Go back to your interpretative dance with kibbutz Bernie
The problem here is structural. For president especially a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler. It’s less so if they can win for the house or senate. I would whole heartedly agree with you if the Us had a parliamentary or ranked choice. But we don’t and until we do; with the demo crates it’s a slightly more likely, then just vote for the least fascist that has a chance to win. Use your 3rd party vote in the primaries.
The US Empire will never pass ranked choice voting in a manner that allows for systemic change. The point of the political system is to perpetuate the economic system, and fixing the problems with society requires advancing to socialism and leaving capitalism behind.
a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler.
And there we go with the excuses.
In non-banana republics with a normal political landscape and populations with spines there have been parties and candidates scoring 1-2 percent, then 10, then 60. Or the other way.
That’s how elections work, and nobody of those initial 1-2% voters gave up.
Since outside the US, nobody propagates that defeatist BS.But OC, this election is “the most important election in history and in our lifetime” so now is not the time to rdo such crazy things as not vote for a duopoly you supposedly don’t like but have since the beginning of your miserable country.
You have only yourself to blame and deserve zero sympathy.
On the contrary.
You’re like an arsonist that constantly burns houses and now cries because he managed to set his own home on fire.
Well burn baby burn.
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Innacurate. Obama used drones, saving countless american lifes. You naughty tankie.
except for that one guy and his son
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Yeah democrats really care about the poor.
And they totally wouldn’t increase the ICE budget, and deportations.
edit: By the way, you might want want to be a little less transparent with vote manipulation. I just banned 3 of your no-content alts.
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She has her own list of atrocities to account for, but most importantly, she’s pro-israel, and pro-genocide.
It’s so funny that the libs are downvoting this. So much for the ‘you have to look past her flaws for now, she’s our only chance against Trump’ rhetoric.
The campaign is over. She lost. What’s the excuse for still supporting her now?
Blue MAGA are doing their best to live up to the epithet. It was never about ideology or morality. Kamala is OUR TEAM and OUR TEAM GOOD.
The KHIVE is here to correct the record on her prison slave labor scandals, defense of white supremacist cops, disproportionate jailing of black people, and staunch support for Israel.
The point isn’t to defend her now, it’s to point out that it would have been much better if she won over trump. It’s to point out that If you didn’t vote for her, you are at fault for Trump’s win. It’s to point out that unless enough people figure out that concept real soon, we will lose the ability to gain some control in the midterms and we will probably lose our democracy for the foreseeable future.
“Let me mention a few negligeable differences like crypto and ignore all the blatant similarities which actually matter”
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A genocide is not when Russia kills mostly soldiers. War crimes sure, but not everything is genocide.
Also long range missiles are not “defensive weapons”
Those are small differences to you? Wow.
Anyway, this infighting is exactly what the shit-ass gop wants. Nice.
You advocating that people should vote for the duopoly is exactly what the duopoly wants.
Notice I didn’t say that either. Good reading skills, chump.
You mean champ. Or chimp?
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The Trump term has literally seen a truce to the genocide in Palestine. This isn’t an endorsement of Trump, he’s a fascist piece of shit, but to those constantly bickering about genocide being worse under Trump, where are you now?!
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No one actually believes he ended the war
There is no war, there is an ongoing genocide of Palestinians by the settler colony of Israel.
And yes, the genocide very much didn’t end unfortunately, and it won’t end until Isntreal is driven out of the region. But it has been ameliorated. By all accounts, dem supporters constantly were ranting about how “not voting for Kamala worsens the genocide”, and this is, factually, not what we’re seeing.
Trump has purposefully made the genocide in Ukraine far worse
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine, there is an inter-imperialist war going on in Ukraine. Using the label “genocide” to every conflict is very harmful to people like Palestinians who are actively being starved en-masse and kept out of reach of basic medicine, healthcare and even fucking drinking water.
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Some of the countries that have officially labeled Russia’s brutal invasion as a genocide include [list of geopolitical enemies of Russia]
France can’t even fucking recognize the state of Palestine until like a week ago, and now they’re authorities in genocide? Fuck them.
As for your points list:
#1 goes mostly from claims by the Ukrainian government. It is true that Russia has extracted children from the warzone and it is true that in some cases these children have been sent to adoptive families in Russia, which I heavily condemn, but it’s not a generalized thing and most confirmed extracted children have been returned eventually. The official numbers by the Ukrainian government aren’t confirmed by any investigative journalism and the invaded Ukrainian state has obvious motivations to claim abduction of Ukrainian children and violations of human rights. The Russian government makes similar claims of forced de-Russification of ethnic Russians in Donbas to justify its invasion of Ukraine, which I hope you don’t take seriously because it’s obviously state propaganda.
#2 A statement doesn’t make a genocide.
#3 Civilian deaths in the Ukrainian war, by any metric you want to use, are contained compared to any imperialist war carried out by the west. Civilian death ratio in the unlawful and horrifying invasion of Iraq was comparably much higher and it wasn’t a genocide in my opinion (probably not in yours either). However horrifying the invasion of Ukraine is, it responds to patterns of war between nations, not of genocide attempts against a population.
#4 Isolated instances of war crimes don’t imply a generalized intent to massacre civilians of a given ethnicity. War crimes are horrible and the perpetrators should be brought to justice, but again, the scale you bring of “hundreds” doesn’t respond to genocidal goals. Massacres of civilians take place in many wars (see Vietnam, Libya…) and are war crimes, but not every war crime is genocide.
Please, do not dillute the meaning of the word “genocide”. It’s meant to carry an extremely heavy connotation of attempt of total extermination of an ethnicity and culture, and throwing it around lightly is an injury to people suffering from it.
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine
When Russia started relocating Ukrainian children into Russian families, that made it a coordinated effort to eliminate a people, which makes it a genocide.
You mean when they fulfilled their obligations under international law to move children away from active war zones?
Fucking monsters, they didn’t even put a wall of them in front of their weapons like true humanitarians in Ukraine.
After 2 years of insisting, Ukraine provided list of 339 names of missing children of which 161 were found living with parents in Germany. The entire “kidnapped children” take is pure atrocity propaganda.
On the other side, in 2014-2022 Ukraine killed 15000 people in Donbas and forced millions more to migrate. THIS is considtent with UN definition of genocide.
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Yeah sure everything you don’t like is Putin personal propaganda, i wish you swift and hard crash with reality.
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Most of the claims of relocation of Ukrainian children to Russian families come from the government of Ukraine, not from independent investigative journalism. The Ukrainian government has obvious reasons to do this atrocity propaganda. The Russian government itself justified the start of the war on similar grounds, arguing that Russian ethnics in eastern Ukraine were being genocided by Ukraine through forced Ukrainization and the banning of Russian language. I don’t take the Russian government seriously when it makes such claims because I haven’t seen much independent journalism confirming it, I apply the same reasoning to the claim of Ukrainian children being kidnapped en-masse and forcibly Russified.
As far as I know, there are only a handful of independently confirmed cases of Ukrainian children being sent to adoptive families in Russia, and most children evacuated by the Russian military have been returned to their families in Ukraine. There aren’t many cases of either because, as you may expect, in an attrition war in which the movements of the frontline are slow, there are very few children near the frontlines.
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They just do nothing to stop the fascists when they have power and do everything they can to compromise with them.
If there’s one lesson to be learned this year, it’s that politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism.
What’s the actual difference? You end up at the same place with either one.
Says who? Yeah, the Dems are filthy neolibs, but all they really care about is money and influence. They’re rainbow capitalists.
The other is literally based on hate and fear, they might actually care about building a christo-nationalist ethnostate more than money.
They certainly have some goals in common, but even compromise isn’t going to the same place.
but all they really care about is money and influence.
Correct.
That is why they maintain American imperialism.
Such as funding a genocide in the middle east.
Exactly. They fund genocide because it’s politically expedient. The opposition funds genocide because they love killing brown people
It’s conceivable to convince one side that genocide is no longer politically favorable. You’re never going to convince the other side to stop wanting to kill brown people. There is no third option with prospects to win.
You cannot convince the rich and powerful that it’s politically unfavourable when it’s economically favourable to do genocide.
They don’t care about what people want. They care about what they want, and that’s US imperialism.
This feels like trying to explain to someone that you can have 2 different infinities, and one is larger than the other. Both are bad, but one is clearly worse.
“What’s the difference if you end up at the same place?”
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide. It is reasonable to criticize the people supporting a genocide while at the same time recognizing that the people wanting more genocides are not the same.
The only real difference is that there are consequences for you at home in the US and that’s the only part you actually care about
And a million dead kids because Trump killed usaid but go off I guess.
“But what about the american children” like I said
I don’t live in the US, there are no consequences for me as a result of Trump being president. Significantly more people are being harmed under Trump and I actually give a shit about other people instead of putting some idealized moral high ground above actual human lives.
People were being harmed under Biden, our foreign and domestic policy has consequences for the vast majority of the world, you’re either a moron or lying
Zero genocide isn’t an idealised moral high ground and it’s incredibly telling to see someone excuse it.
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide.
How do you find yourself typing something like this and not pause for thought?
What’s worse than genocide?
2 genocides.
I don’t know how to make this any more clear.
Seriously, how do you not pause for thought typing that out?
Hell yeah brother. Personally I think Hitler was fucking great and would vote for him in a heartbeat if it meant stopping Himmler from being in charge. /s
Great hero of the people: Neville Chamberlain
If you had to choose between Neville Chamberlain and Hitler?
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us; rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us
Agreed
rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Nah that’s dumb. I don’t give a shit about “treating the system as legitimate”. The system is what it is, and it will continue to be the system until it isn’t anymore. That’s gonna take more than a handful of people refusing to acknowledge the system’s “legitimacy”.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
It is doing that though. You get the option to vote for which of the two cups they force feed you, and everyone else. We are not presently in a position to throw anything back right now. When we are, I’m all for it. But part of that is choosing the smaller cup of shit while we gather strength.
The point is I’m not going to lend you any legitimacy by picking up the shit and eating it myself, then turning at the people around me and asking why they aren’t eating it yet. I’m going to make it impossible for the shit peddler to hide their willingness and ability to abuse their power. If I’m eating shit either way, why would I do it in a way that makes it apparent to outsiders that I’m choosing to eat shit?
And no, when you scold people for not participating in a system, you are not just not “refusing to acknowledge its legitimacy”. You are promoting it, whether you care to or not. You are promoting the idea that everyone is choosing these options out of complete and true support of complete and unbiased information. This is especially true when people like you misrepresent and refuse to understand the arguments of those who choose to abstain or vote third party.
You are saying, “if you participate in this system, you could change the way things are going; and if you don’t, then you implicitly consent to it”, which is simply not true. Interestingly enough, you know how little power a person has when acting as an individual, which is why you minimize the reach of individuals when it comes to forms of political action other than voting, but you never apply it to the situation of voting where the ruling class has vast numbers of ways to influence people’s behaviors in whatever direction they want.
The change can only come when we have built the ability to move cohesively as a class, or a voting bloc if you will, that can either take power for itself or force our leaders to come to our table if they want our compliance. We can only build this by overcoming the resentment we hold for other members of our class, and putting one foot in front of the other; turning one person at a time towards the inner workings of the machine that the ruling class works so hard to hide. Not by stoking resentment and wasting our energy trying to manipulate an illegitimate system while we wait around for the movement to build itself.
More like choosing between Hindenburg and Hitler.
politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism
the paradox of tolerance, ever heard of it?
Yup. Ever heard of Duverger"s Law?
Is committing genocide not a fascist act?
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Fascism provides a specific permission structure for genocide that isn’t present in other systems. That’s not to say genocide didn’t happen before the term was coined, but that the characteristics of fascism; nationalism, racial supremacy, military supremacy, victim complex, out groups, scapegoating, disdain for human rights, etc.; tend to be present anywhere that genocide is present, and genocide doesn’t just happen because some “genocidal regime” found its way into power.
Whether or not you need their permission to make the policy; you need the people’s permission for it to stand, because ultimately you need the people’s voluntary compliance in order to carry it out. Otherwise you undermine your own system and generally incite resistance against it.
God, how much is a sniveling little toad do you have to be to engage in that kind of nit picking semantics about genocide.
The world cares about what they do to other nations, not to themselves. Crazy gun policies? Slave labour in prisons? Your problem. Military expansionism, cripling economic sanctions, political inference? Very much our problem. That did’t change.
They aren’t fascists, yet they’re committing a genocide:
Democrats: against every genocide except the current one.
I’m sympathetic to your argument, but ultimately they absolutely are fascist. If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian. There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
We can’t keep accepting the lesser evil indefinitely. When you brush off the serious issues in the Democratic party with language like “no saints” you make it look like that’s exactly what you intend for the country to do. I mean “politicians will be politicians”. That’s not convincing anymore.
If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian.
Just to clarify this to others:
There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
That part is important. I hear you about “the lesser evil” but if you’re response to resisting a lesser evil results in a faster, accelerated evil then you have contributed to a much greater harm. If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
Biden was in power when the genocide started and during most of it. He had the power to stop it and didn’t. So there’s your answer.
So the Genocide hasn’t accelerated under Trump as OP claimed?
No. It continued at the same rate. It is a nonsensical argument anyways. Biden could have stopped it but chose to pass it on to Trump.
Okay, don’t vote for Biden then.
Swapping faces changes nothing. The rot starts with the DNC and without a formal apology for enabling the genocide the party is dead to me just like the Republicans. Two corpses fighting it out and I am not into necrophilia.
They’re certainly no worse off.
OP just said that under Trump the genocide is happening faster and you don’t consider that worse off?
Because they’re lying; the genocide was just as bad under Biden
That’s the part where I’m sympathetic to your argument. I think anyone not voting for Harris made a mistake. I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
The argument I made for people to vote for Harris was that this is exactly what will happen if Trump wins, and 3 months before an election is not the time to try to get a viable alternative. Harris sucked, her campaign was shit, but the alternative is running the predictable course.
Now is an excellent time to work on a viable alternative, but saying “both are the same” is disingenuous, and is not actually putting an alternative forward.
To put it differently, if they are the proximate cause of the Trump presidency, then you are the ultimate cause. I throw up my hands at trying to decide which matters more.
I don’t give a shit about " bankrupting the US!". It literally prints it’s own money. But I sure as shit do remember Democrats going full fascist and participating in the modern Holocaust.
democrats are no saints.
By which you mean they’re genocidal monsters.
I’ll just tell that to my brother in law who just got released from ICE custody. Like I know this picture is probably true for Gaza, but it isn’t for many of my neighbors and family.
Wait until you find out Obama deported twice as many immigrants(could be just Mexicans, I can’t remember) as Trump did. Or when you find out Obama dropped more bombs on Muslim countries than Trump. Or that Hillary raised twice as much money from corporations in ‘16 than Trump (same with Harris in’ 24)
It went over your head didn’t it. When he is taking about ice he is talking about erosion of law and norms. Ice has always been a thing but they were not like this.
But go on.
Always is a stretch. Since 2003 during the Patriot Act days.
It is also true people benefited from Obama’s DACA program. This isn’t a simple trolley problem let alone a single track
The difference is method, not end result.
The main purposes of DACA was to get immigrants to “come out of the shadows” and have individuals self-report and turn themselves in, in exchange for temporary benifits to, primarily, their children. As stated at the time:
“Deferred action is not a pathway to citizenship. It is not legal status. It simply says that for three years, you are not a law enforcement priority and are not going to go after you, It is temporary and it is revocable.”
It was part of a series of incredibly smart, effective and efficient moves which resulted in record high deportations without needing a bunch of jackbooted thugs cracking skulls in the street.
For a while. Now we’re in the “jackbooted thugs” phase which is less efficient, but plays better with the base it’s trying to appease. It’s less efficient and less people are getting deported overall, which is good. But the majority of those are switching from self-deportations to direct expulsions which are getting increasingly violent, a process that started back in 2021.
Removed by mod
Like when Obama drone struck that 16 year old American kid, and when someone in his administration was asked about it, he said that he should’ve had a better father? Yes, he was the son of a known terrorist. But to be fair, Trumps first military raid as president killed his sister, an 8 year old American girl, which Obama refused that mission(maybe twice, don’t quote me on that). Or when Jim Carry had that drawing of a school bus full of children that were bombed and killed, and it was under Obama. Those terrorists?
Obama drone struck that 16 year old American kid, and when someone in his administration was asked about it, he said that he should’ve had a better father
Oh boy the irony
Really takes you back to the outrage when Trump said “We have to take out their families”
To mods:
How my comment was breaking this rule: “1. Be civil and nice”? Who did I insult?
Perhaps you need a third rule: “3. Don’t post anything that goes against Russian and Chinese propaganda”
Hmm I also don’t remember anything offensive? To be clear, I didn’t report, but at least it’s good to know if/when I decide to switch instances, won’t be to that one.
OK nvm, I just looked at the post. Seems like somebody on their side went a little haywire and removed a ton of comments. Now I’m offended that mine stayed up. I’m always such a ray of fucking sunshine.
The Democrats have consistently expanded ICE
