- cross-posted to:
- funny@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- funny@sh.itjust.works
Torturing an AI chat bot until it does stupid AI shit is some of the funniest content I’ve seen in a while
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I dunno if torturing something that simulates humanity is healthy.
I guess the same could be said about violence in videogames though.
Huh, I dunno what to think actually.
Sorry, this was a weird time for me to start contemplating LLM ethics.
No I’m mostly with you on this one.
Not that I think LLMs even “simulate” humanity but I just don’t like the idea of practicing being abusive to something or someone defenseless and who didn’t pick/start a fight. “Oh it’s not sentient” I fully agree, these LLMs are not and can never be even one millionth as sentient as a fruit fly, but it’s still fucked up. If I saw someone speaking abusively to a stuffed bear and / or putting it through simulated torture I’d still be VERY uncomfortable with it and quite distressed even though it’s an inanimate object (I’d be more disturbed by the treatment of the bear plushie than the chatbot). Ever hear the advice “if you’ve got anger problems you should just punch a pillow to let off steam!”? Well it’s terrible advice because it just teaches people, by practice, that the correct response to anger is to punch, when in fact a hell of a lot more has to go into the decision about when to throw a punch at whom than just “angry? Y/N”.
My mom always used to thank the GPS lady even though she was just a text to speech voice. I give my laptop a little hug and a kiss goodnight when I put it to hibernate for the night. We could be mean instead and it would be no different to them, right? But it feels different, and that’s important to us.
I would contend the difference in videogames is context, but for that reason I never play videogames that are encouraging me to say, go fight in the middle east and commit war crimes for America. I never take the evil path in videogames anyway because it feels bad. I don’t like being mean to people who don’t have it coming. But here’s the thing, if I play DOOM I’m not practicing shooting up a bunch of people or demons, I’m practicing moving around and clicking with a mouse. If I play Torture Your AI Waifu like this video appears to be about (I didn’t watch it) then I’m just practicing being emotionally abusive, and that’s got to be unhealthy. Actually that reminds me, there was a flash game called “Interactive Buddy” where you got a little crudely drawn person to subject to all sorts of torment, and I really hated watching people play that on the school computer because it was just senseless cruelty. But when it was my turn I found that I could switch the Buddy out to have President Bush’s face, and then it was a fun game! (extra fun because some other kids objected and said that was mean). Context matters, I suppose.
IDK that any of this is going to “make” people shitty though. More like reveal a darkness in them that was already there.
It is an advanced T9 predictive text algorithm I do not care one bit what people say to it. I expect people to know the difference between machine and reality, much the same as videogames.
Selling it as “intelligence” is actually the dangerous part and should be banned. People believing it is intelligent and not being able to determine pretend from reality is what has caused problems. If people believed they were killing humans in the games and not just a bunch of silly pixels arranged a certain way that would be a serious problem too.
Selling it as “intelligence” is actually the dangerous part and should be banned. People believing it is intelligent and not being able to determine pretend from reality is what has caused problems. If people believed they were killing humans in the games and not just a bunch of silly pixels arranged a certain way that would be a serious problem too.
CW brief mention of sexual assault in the context of a theoretical video game.
I agree, but there’s also certain subjects where this (even in a regular game) is a bigger problem. If someone played regular video games where the gaslit and abused (or, for an extreme example, sexually assaulted) women, I would be much more seriously concerned about them than someone playing CoD. I think it’s partially that people are raised from birth the believe CoD is OK, but in my theoretical example they are severely deviating from social norms in a way that indicates a desire to harm women.
I agree, but there’s also certain subjects where this (even in a regular game) is a bigger problem. If someone played regular video games where the gaslit and abused (or, for an extreme example, sexually assaulted) women, I would be much more seriously concerned about them than someone playing CoD. I think it’s partially that people are raised from birth the believe CoD is OK, but in my theoretical example they are severely deviating from social norms in a way that indicates a desire to harm women.
Is this perhaps a somewhat one sided analysis? Do you think there are no women buying kink games that involve non-con as a kink with a female protag?
I often see a mistake on hexbear, and that is to imagine women as non-sexual beings that do not engage in kink. Some of this content is a safe outlet for kink and exists and is consumed by women, not just men. Women are kinky and freaky and women like bdsm. Men do too. Some of them are cruel dickbags, some are totally normal dudes too though. I am not inclined to judge someone solely for the roleplay kink they engage in without other metrics. I think it is dangerous and misguided patriarchal behaviour, an overprotective response limited to people that mistakenly misjudge women as non-sexual, non-kinky and not engaging in that content themselves. I think, particularly among leftist women, this is even more pronounced.
There are problems yes. But do not over-correct.
Is this perhaps a somewhat one sided analysis? Do you think there are no women buying kink games that involve non-con as a kink with a female protag?
No, of course not. I had in mind specifically men for the point I was making because they commit the overwhelming majority of violence against women (and in general). It was sloppy of me to leave that implicit in my comment.
I didn’t even think of kink when I was typing the comment, that’s also 100% my mistake and you make a good point. The type of game I had in mind was the type made by men who hate women (far-right types) for a very specific audience (misogynistic men), it was absolutely sloppy of me to not write that explicitly. I want to also acknowledge here that the people who would play such a game are not all the audience intended by the creator, so what you’re saying stands for many of them too.
Some of them are cruel dickbags, some are totally normal dudes too though. I am not inclined to judge someone solely for the roleplay kink they engage in without other metrics.
I 100% agree with you here. I’m not arguing as a judgment of people who enjoy these things in a healthy way.
I actually realized while I was typing this what the itch in my brain was that compelled me to make that comment in the first place, and I think I was running down a false path when I said I would be concerned about consumers of such media. I think, especially for certain people (isolated young men), that the interactive nature of video games is more likely to create a sort of “hedonistic feedback loop” (not sure if this is the right way to express this concept). While they’re not very likely to go out and commit murder (or even join the army, statistically), they’re much more likely to commit domestic violence and sexual violence. I don’t think I could concretely even say this would increase the likelihood of such men committing violence, but I don’t think it would be psychologically healthy for them. Hopefully I’m making sense here, I can’t really tell at this point lol.
Edit: I’m pretty tired, so please let me know if I’m saying nonsense. I’m not completely sure I’m getting my (probably not fully formed) ideas out into text in a comprehensible way here.
How do we differentiate between those ones and the kink ones? Maybe now it’s obvious but what happens if you crack down on the right wing ones and then they switch to blurring the lines and persisting in the grey area between?
I am mostly content with ignoring it, because the danger in going after them despite being such a small problem is that it will expand into just outright controlling kink content when they do that. People will misguidedly control women under the claim they’re doing it to protect women.
Hopefully I’m making sense here, I can’t really tell at this point lol.
You do make sense. I’m trying to plot a course through this problem myself, without falling into the trap of controlling women to protect women. This trap is dangerous and I think people with no kink history have a hard time even noticing it exists.
You don’t need to be nervous about the topic with me. Some other hexbears might see them as a minefield but I’m particularly open and chill about it.
How do we differentiate between those ones and the kink ones? Maybe now it’s obvious but what happens if you crack down on the right wing ones and then they switch to blurring the lines and persisting in the grey area between?
OH! Oh no, I’m absolutely, categorically NOT trying to advocate for a crackdown for exactly the reasons you state (edit: that there’s no way or mechanism to crack down only on “bad” things and it’s likely to cause a bigger problem than the problem it would be trying to solve). I went back and read my first comment, and I now see how it might have looked that way, but it 100% was not my intent.
I am mostly content with ignoring it, because the danger in going after them despite being such a small problem is that it will expand into just outright controlling kink content when they do that. People will misguidedly control women under the claim they’re doing it to protect women.
100% agreed on all points.
I’m trying to plot a course through this problem myself, without falling into the trap of controlling women to protect women. This trap is dangerous and I think people with no kink history have a hard time even noticing it exists.
This is a great point and one that I will do my best to keep in mind going forward. Thank you.
I have my suspicions that the current ongoing payment provider restrictions are intended to cause this to happen.
What happens to kink writers and developers for literature and games when their content is removed? Right now it’s just kinda sus content leaning towards obviously taboo things, content in school settings, content with animals, 500 year old vampires, etc etc.
The obvious thing they will do is move further into the grey area.
What happens when they do that? You crack down on everything in the grey area.
Now you’ve hit them again, but you’ve also hit a whole heap of lgbt content and other kinks.
Then all of that moves into the newly formed grey area.
You go after the new grey area for being banned in the former wave. Explicitly targeting lgbt kinks and other things.
This is the long-term strategy I would be running if I were on the side of those christian lobby groups that have been successful recently.
It just strings words together. This is just a really colorful way of saying that it confused an algorithm, so there’s not really any ethics to consider.
It just strings words together.
This is true, but I think @Dort_Owl@hexbear.net is getting at something real here, which is the “abuse” of something that imitates a human. Similar to when people yell misogynistic things at their voice assistant software because it has a fem-coded voice, but with LLMs it has the potential to create a much worse feedback loop in the style of “AI psychosis”.
That is what I was getting at, that abusing something human-like might normalise abusing real people. However I second guess my reasoning, because after all, I’ve played many violent video games and that never made me sadistic IRL. So yeah I don’t know what to think really.
That’s fair, though I think half the issue is the game itself, which is basically giving the player a pet waifu to fuck with.
With all these sorts of things I can’t stop thinking about those little balls with bells in them for cats to play with. Like it’s not alive, the cat probably doesn’t think it’s alive either insofar as the cat has any kind of model for “things that are alive” and “things that are not” whatever that model may be, but it’s a simulacrum of prey, a funny little thing that moves and makes fun noises when it moves and it just makes the cat’s instincts go wild wanting to chase it and hit it and carry it around.
And I mean there are a lot more explicit “this is a psycho-sexual jingly ball for human sadists” toys out there, but the whole AI waifu pet genre is so extremely human-jingly-ball coded, just these simulacra of hybrid prey and companions for their target demographics, an outlet for both sadism and loneliness.
Damn. That’s a really good metaphor and I hate it.
That’s true. I don’t know why the subject of LLM makes me prickly.
it does a better job of mimicry and the purpose of the machine is different. that nazi in wolfenstein is there for us to kill, the chatbot is there to vomit.
you probably feel differently about someone slicing up a mannequin than a cube made of the same material.
Because LLMs are generating new tokens based on previous tokens, you can “lead” LLMs by crafting “begs the question” style messages. It’s why LLM jailbrakes work. Larger LLMs can be more resistant but are not immune. All of this is because LLMs do not distinguish between its own messages and those of the user. It’s all one giant blob of text it is told to generate even more text repeatedly in response to user input.
I dunno if torturing something that simulates humanity is healthy.
I guess the same could be said about violence in videogames though.
This is much more interesting observation because you are absolutely right. We know what we’re interacting with is fake (like the above), and yet there is something…
I’m too tired to really pull on this thought tonight, but I think there is an interesting psychological phenomenon at work here that various AIs over the decades pull on.
Look what you did.
it’s honestly so weird that the game refuses to let you joke around at all with such a ridiculous premise. like this is literally just LLM Lifeline but they want it to be high art for some reason
The company is owned by the founder of Mihoyo so they’re pretty serious, I think it’s more of a proof of concept that ai can be used in a way that makes conversation more interesting and engaging while also being part of a planned narrative. Any deviation from narrative would be regarded as a bug.
The idea with this kind of thing is that they want ai to be involved in making dialogue more personal and interactive rather than just a choose your own adventure list of choices. Those choices are still technically there really but they’re hidden I guess. So in Elder Scrolls or whatever everyone you talk to would be more engaging when it comes to small talk and personable reactions. The most impressive part for me is that they’re generating speech and intonation while doing a good job of matching facial expressions to that too. Confusion is expressed pretty well, mild disgust, etc. She’s very well animated for ai generated speech in realtime imo.
Yeah ok that was pretty funny!
Right?
spoiler
I broke down at the line it decided to play back to him.
I haven’t laughed that hard in months, I’m such a dumbass lol
It’s so funny though lmao
I was literally howling
Remember when a bunch of journalists were writing about getting abused by AI chatbots and how scary it was? Skill issue, clearly.
Aww was the computer mean to them? Poor babies.
I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
