• boonhet@sopuli.xyz
    4·
    6 days ago

    You can have agriculture without private property, sure. You CAN’T have food without work. Or devices for shitposting without work. No housing without work.

    Work, and needing to work to survive, is not unnatural, hoarding the results is.

    • Prunebutt@slrpnk.netOP
      31·
      6 days ago

      I think the second post explains how their definition of “work” differs from yours.

      I think they define “work” as wage-labour.

      • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
        1·
        6 days ago

        Maybe, but then if you abolish wage-labour, you just have a different type of work needed to survive. Either you’re going off-grid and living all on your own, which would mean you don’t have a lot, but you’re truly independent - or you’re part of a society where you don’t get paid a wage, but instead receive certain living conditions similar to everyone else’s, and you’re expected to work to the best of your ability.

        Yes, working for a wage is unnatural. But then being part of a large society with super specialized roles is unnatural. We’ve been doing unnatural for thousands of years now.

        • Prunebutt@slrpnk.netOP
          1·
          5 days ago

          Maybe, but then if you abolish wage-labour, you just have a different type of work needed to survive

          The point is that this kind of work is less alienating.

          Either you’re going off-grid and living all on your own, which would mean you don’t have a lot, but you’re truly independent

          I’m not arguing for that, since it’s not a realistic scenario.

          or you’re part of a society where you don’t get paid a wage, but instead receive certain living conditions similar to everyone else’s, and you’re expected to work to the best of your ability.

          Cool, where do I sign up?

          Yes, working for a wage is unnatural. But then being part of a large society with super specialized roles is unnatural. We’ve been doing unnatural for thousands of years now.

          I don’t want to succumb to the naturalistic fallacy here. I think it makes people miserable, since it runs counter to our brain structure. I don’t think you can say the same thing about large societies (the amount of people you interact with has a natural limit and there’s a natural need for humans to be social).