• LordGimp@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    “Both have inhuman ulterior motives”

    Palestine wants to be free

    Israel wants to genocide Palestine and live in their homes

    Yes I can see how wanting liberty and self governance is exactly the same as wanting more land for your historically landless people regardless of how many natives you have to kill. Completely balanced

    • Bigmouse@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The attacks weren’t perpetrated by a free Palestinian people or some recognized advocacy group, but by an extremist wing of the Muslim Brotherhood that has been pushed by Israel for decades.

      • man_in_space@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        And the Palestinians vote them in.

        If White Southerners are responsible for the Civil War, the Palestinian people bear responsibility for choosing a genocidal majority.

        My sympathy for the Palestinians only goes so far—it ends with their ballot box.

          • man_in_space@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            If they vote for candidates who support them, then yes, the body politic is responsible.

            Democracy comes with responsibility.

              • man_in_space@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                You don’t. War is a blunt instrument. If you went door-to-door and mapped out households with different-colored thumbtacks, your enemy would take the advantage and strike at you while you worried about it.

                • zaph@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Being attacked by a terrorist isn’t an excuse to act like a terrorist. You don’t get to murder children because someone else did. And you don’t get to use war as an excuse.

        • Bigmouse@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It’s a bit more complicated than that. Palestine doesn’t have a strong democratic tradition to begin with. Additionally, Hamas is only governing Gaza, not the West Banks. Hamas also suppresses secular Freedom organizations. And ~50% of the people in Gaza wouldnt even be able to vote out Hamas since they are under 18. Then we have the case of Hamas indoctrination, which finds fertile soil in the impoverished and destitute Gaza youth.

          All of that isn’t to say I support Hamas. I am quite vocal in my disdain for them. But Israel plays a significant part in their success. So does Iran. And let’s not forget that the religious right has been torpedoing a resolution aswell, not just the Jihadist organization Hamas. Rabin wasn’t killed by a palestinian hardliner.

          • man_in_space@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            “Strong democratic tradition”? So you’re arguing that they were too stupid to vote is what you’re saying?

        • zaph@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          When did the Palestinians vote last? What were the demographics of that vote? Are you completely confident it was a purely democratic vote or was it the kind of democracy Putin got voted by? Perhaps the kind kim was voted in by? Or do you think Palestinians have an electoral college like the US?

            • zaph@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              So you’re fine with a nearly 20 year old vote, when the majority of the population is under 20, being the justification for “they chose Hamas?”

                • zaph@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  I don’t trust polls in the US why should I trust them anywhere else? I’m talking about votes, things that have a chance to change things.

                  • man_in_space@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    I did my best to avoid Israeli sources when finding these polls for that exact reason. If you’re going to ignore the evidence I’ve given you in response to your claims, there is no further point in engaging with you.

    • man_in_space@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Palestine voted Hamas, whose founding documents are dripping with antisemitism (they cite The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which isn’t so much a dogwhistle as it is a klaxon), into power.

      If you’re a democracy, you’re responsible for whom you vote in. You want a war, you gamble with your constituents’ lives (and those of their children).

      • LordGimp@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Lmfao that hasn’t been true since Athens invented democracy. Alcibiades was elected plenty and still turned traitor. The average Palestinian doesn’t support Hamas, but they’re not going to denounce one of the few factions actually fighting towards their goals. Get Israel out of Palestine and you’ll be amazed how few rockets will fly

        • man_in_space@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          So then actions, choices, don’t have consequences?

          The difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is whether they’re shooting at you. This includes my own country’s birth: The American Revolution was started by terrorists, fought by terrorists, and by happenstance the terrorists won.

          • LordGimp@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            As a native American in modern America, tell me more about how the terrorists won. Lmao my people also fought back, were labeled “terrorists” (read “savages” for old timey historically accurate racism flavor), and were damn near driven to extinction. There’s a reason I’m French Indian instead of just Indian.

            • man_in_space@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              The Colonies revolted. And then, for good measure (/s), they terrorized everybody else.

              The Bluecoats were terrorists. They had no legitimate basis to rebel against the Crown.