No but at this age you should probably ask yourself at what point in life did you stoop so low as to want to communicate with the French.
/s
It’s never too late to learn a language but it’s a bit of an uphill battle, and you’re not going to learn it by just watching shows. You need to practice regularly and understand the grammar and sentence structure. You also have to speak it with other people to get feedback, you can’t only learn to listen.
It’s about brain plasticity and 25 is kind of the same as 45…
So they can learn French in an “anything is possible if you try” kind of way, but realistically unless they straight up move to France and completely dive into it, it’s going to be a massive struggle to get to where they can even understand French shows without English subtitles.
Like, at a certain point people should realistically evaluate the amount of work and payoff they get from stuff.
Marrying a French person and wanting to learn their language? Yeah. That’s probably worth the work.
Wanting to watch French TV without reading? Not so much
Yeah, no.
This is bullshit.
(Especially the stuff about brain plasticity and learning capacity)
https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/publishing/review/30/neural-plasticity-dont-fall-for-hype/
Can you please just edit and rephrase so its obvious as to what direction you are indicatingn in terms of BS?
Sure, but just to be clear, it’s about the brain plasticity and diminishing returns. That stuff just isn’t true.
Here’s what the British academy has to say on the subject:
https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/publishing/review/30/neural-plasticity-dont-fall-for-hype/
Sounds like you’re agreeing with GP that “it’s all babble”.
That example about London cabbies is actually one of my favorite studies…
But changes to certain structures in the brain isn’t what I was talking about. And I’ve never heard of that being categorized as neuroplasticity.
Which makes it even weirder that the article is about how we should differentiate more.
So let’s stay specific?
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnagi.2021.666851/full
But that study was done on people aged 65+ for 11 weeks? I mean, sure, they didn’t measure any significant changes to the brain, but that doesn’t preclude changes forever. 11 weeks is not long to practice a language
Learning a language has benefits beyond that, it can be it’s own reward to have dedicated time to something and have it pay off and it is good for brain health. Bilingual people suffer less from dementias.
Bilingual people suffer less from dementias.
Pretty sure that’s people who were bilingual their whole lives, not people who learned another language later in life. It’s about how the brain deals with thinking in both languages.
Once you’re older it’s the same benefit as sudoku, which is still something
Brain plasticity, window of opportunity, it’s all babble. You can learn new languages just fine as you age; the matter here is how much time you spend using the language.
The reason why adults perform generally worse than kids learning languages is mostly motivational, and not spending enough time with the language. But as an adult you got access to a bunch of resources that kids wouldn’t, such as a decent grasp of grammar on theoretical grounds, that you can (and should) use to your advantage.
Note however that watching sitcoms will likely not be enough to get any decent grasp of any language. (Otherwise I’d be speaking Japanese, given the amount of anime that I watch.) You’ll need proficiency on four levels: hearing, speaking, reading, writing.
Hah, babble, more like Babel, amirite?
If I’m over 25, is it still too late
Just stop. I don’t mean to be one of those people but you apparently have no idea how young 25 is. People have started over, gone to school, completely changed careers, moved to new countries, and yes: learned different languages in their 70’s+. It’s not too late for them, and it’s not even close to too late for you.
Children seem to have the easiest time learning a new language, but the rest of us can as well! The key is immersion. If you can converse with a native-speaker every day, you’ll probably have the most success, but whatever you do, be consistent!
It’s never too late to learn a language. However, French is one hell of a step coming from English.
French is my main language and even if I’ve been speaking it for close to 40 years now, I still learn language exceptions and rules today.
Still, I’d give it a go if I were you, learning something new is always fun. Enjoy!
If you want a rough comparison of the relative difficulty for a native English speaker to learn different languages, the US military’s Defense Language Institute’s guidelines are well-regarded, and they consider Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese to be the easiest.
French is tough, but I’d argue it isn’t that hard compared to some other languages. Grammatical gender and conjugation are a pain in the ass, but the vocabulary is very familiar to a native English-speaker because of the languages’ common history (thanks, William the Conqueror)
Im Canadian and also already have a significant french education, just never got “conversational”, def have since like age 3 exposure if only Ontarioish
I’ve learned (I guess still learning) a new language as an adult for the last 2 years. I tried just about every method to learn (classes, courses, books, god knows how many apps/services). To get to the point of being able to accelerate your learning with foreign movies & TV shows, you need to have consumed around 200-400hrs of the language in a comprehensible format first. This is how I would do it if I had to again:
- Forget about grammar for now. Grammar is boring and it will make you second-guess when trying to form sentences. Better to just practice and have someone correct you as needed. You’ll learn grammar naturally to an extent (i.e. it will just SOUND right), and you can supplement it later on when you have a better grasp of the language.
- Use beginner audio lessons that focus on simple phrases and/or short stories (e.g. Pimsleur or US foreign service language tapes). This is to help train your ear to understand how words are pronounced. This should get you about 40-50hrs of practice.
- Find some French youtubers that use the comprehensible input (Krashen) method to complement the audio course - some recommendations in this reddit thread
- Once you have around 50-100hrs in, now is the time to find some easy content to consume. My recommendations would be: 1) movies/tv shows you already watched in english but dubbed in french (so you already know the context. You might need to leave off french subtitles if they don’t match audio), 2) podcasts or audiobooks where only one person speaks at a time, 3) french kids shows
- After 100hrs, I would continue to consume content as detailed above but you might be able to throw in some easy french-made movies/shows at this point - your goal is to understand about 80%. If you find you can’t understand enough, put it on the backburner to revisit later. You might also be able to read an easy french book now too. You could just reread a book you’ve already read in English but translated in French now (again, so you have context; I read Harry Potter for instance)
Learning a new language at an older age was pretty eye-opening. It’s definitely harder than I expected but it’s so rewarding to be able to connect with a different group of people at a much deeper level, as you also start to understand their culture a lot more, and it gives you access to new movies, shows, theatre, books, music etc. etc.
Good luck on your journey and let me know if you have any Qs!
No and no. It’s not too late, and just watching sitcons won’t teach you enough to start speaking. But if you just start actual studying and practicing you can learn it just fine. Watching TV can be used to practice listening, but on it’s own it’s not enough unless you’re a wonderkid.
“I think I said “wunderkind”, but okay.”
Never too late. Rote memorisation becomes more difficult as we age, but it’s not impossible. I’ve been learning one of the more difficult languages (Finnish) in my 40s for about 300 days now, and I am making progress.
Look into ‘active learning’, it’s far more effective than apps like DuoLingo (which I use heavily, it does have its place)
I work for the Federal Government of Canada, and for reasons that are hopefully obvious, it’s important that they are able to have a pipeline that teaches French to people over the age of 25 in about a year. It’s not as simple as just watching media though. The French training for public servants starting at 0 French is a full-time job. People literally disappear from their jobs for a year or more in order to learn French.
Is there a way to access this as a fellow Federal employee (dont wanna elaborate over here)
Ask your manager. Different departments have different amounts of training available. Also look into the CSPS French training.
At my department, there is also in-house part-time training. It just varies a lot from department to department.
The full-time training I mentioned is usually offered to people who are lined up for a manager/director job since there’s the baguette-glass-ceiling
It probably would be a good idea not to publicly identify as a goc worker in a social media forum.
We’re allowed to. We just can’t claim to speak for the government.
Too late! What is this? Lol
I’m in my mid-40s, already speak English and Spanish, and I’m picking up Portuguese just because I’m around Brazilian people so damned often up here in Massachusetts.
Of course it’s not too late. Having actual conversations in context is the easiest way to kind of passively pick up a new language. You can use apps or Google translate for vocabulary and details
Yes you can, with one caveat.
According to Stephen Krashen’s input hypothesis, compelling, comprehensible input is sufficient to acquire a language. That means input that you find interesting and that keeps you engaged, and which you can understand at least in part. That evolving sweet spot can indeed take you from complete newbie to fluency without ever speaking.
In my experience, though, being able to speak with other native speakers is a huge source of motivation and creates its own compelling input. So I wouldn’t discount that.
I personally know someone who went from no English to being able to converse just by watching The Simpsons.
As others have said it is never too late to learn a language. Our brains are just as capable, if not more, when we’re adults.
I’m also a firm believer that comprehensible input (listening and attempting to understand) is the best way to learn a language. You can’t start with high level speech though. You need to start with speech that is aimed at beginners or you won’t understand enough for it to be effective.
Studying vocabulary in parallel helps a lot because it helps you learn niche words that don’t come up often in normal speech.
The typical recommendation with comprehensible input is to listen for around a thousand hours and then start practicing with conversation and books as well.
Good luck! Remember that with enough dedicated time you can learn anything. :)
Adults are worse at passive learning than kids, but focused learning works just fine. You’re probably better off buying/pirating something like rosetta stone than you are watching sitcoms.
Hello,
Feel free to join us on !france@jlai.lu or !forumlibre@jlai.lu (our version of !casualconversation@lemmy.world )
What I’ve found to be helpful is to not learn the words first, but rather learn the sentence formation, and find parallels in your own language. Understanding sentence structure would really help in learning the language, and you can always substitute unknown words with English until you learn them. See how a sentence in your language is translated to that language, and see how the structure is different. Building parallels like this for different types of sentences would really help you learn the language better.
Sounds just like the Language Transfer system it’s the best language learning method I’ve ever encountered, and I speak five languages.
It’s a set of MP3s, using a kind of Socratic dialogue to teach language based on the language you already know. Completely free, but please donate if you find it useful.
Language transfer has courses in French, Italian, Greek, Turkish, Arabic, Spanish, English for Spanish speakers, German, Swahili, and even one for understanding music theory!
That sounds really interesting! Thanks for that link.
The more languages you know the better that system might work I guess, like if you know German then French will we (somewhat) easier because you have already bent your brain to accept the conjugation system. If you know Italian or maybe any other language you’d be used to build phrases in other ways (like backwards sort of).
That must be true, because all of the courses I mentioned are taught by the same person, who also developed them!
