Just because he wasn’t charged with treason doesn’t mean he didn’t commit treason by advocating an armed insurrection against our democracy. (See: the US post-Civil War Reconstruction Era for further examples.)
And if you want to why he wasn’t charged for that, it’s because of Republican Special Counsel Ken Starr’s disastrous opinion that sitting presidents are above the law and can’t be prosecuted, and must instead be impeached–which, if you remember, Trump was, not once but twice. Of course now Trump is arguing that he’s still above the law and deserves “total immunity”, which only further shows that he is, in fact, a wanna-be dictator.
Saying “Trump wasn’t charged with a crime so therefore he did nothing wrong” and “Trump can’t be charged with a crime because current and former US Presidents must have total immunity from prosecution” is very clearly circular logic.
Well, you should probably elect better representation if you feel he committed treason by telling people to peacefully and patriotically make their voices heard, and that super treasonous decree telling everyone to go home. Considering not even AOC or Ilhan Omar brought up charges of treason, gonna go ahead and guess that there’s literally zero evidence, let alone reason to even try, but you seem to know more than they do. Also, for a dictator, he did a pretty piss poor job of remaining in power. Also pretty sure Ken Starr never stated sitting presidents are above the law, we do still have the impeachment process, which you also brought up.
Yes, he was impeached (brought up on charges) by a liberal house, but was subsequently acquitted (found not guilty) by a conservative senate.
Oh, he didn’t need to be charged; it’s been ruled that he fomented an insurrection in the Courts, and that’s treason. Now that gets kicked up to SCOTUS for review, but here’s where you’re in trouble: if any higher Court including the SCOTUS wants to overturn that ruling, they’re going to have to show their work as to why, and they can’t, because it’s simple fact as shown by the video evidence of the day and sworn testimony by everyone who didn’t hide behind the Fifth Amendment.
Now. I don’t expect you to accept any of that, but it’s dangerous to go alone, so take this block. It won’t help you, but much like everyone you’ve ever cared for I’ll be happy never thinking about you again. Okay okay, that was excessive; I didn’t really mean it. I’m sorry.
Pinpoint exactly how he tried to remain in power. The peaceful transition of power occurred on 1/20/21 as scheduled, nary a violent incident to be found. Your zeal to see a man you disagree with destroyed, being fed by pure idiots as well as some who have far more nefarious intentions, is undeniable. Reams of documents and thousands of hours of video evidence still haven’t surfaced. Yet they keep feeding you lie after lie. If such evidence existed, it would be plastered all over the news, and I would stand beside you to throw him in prison.
On a different topic, but one that’s more in line with the meme posted that started all this, do you agree that Biden should be impeached and put in prison for what remains of his life for the documents he was in no way legally allowed to take possession of after his time as vice president, nor were they secured in any way, shape or form? Or do you agree with AG Garland that he’s unfit to stand trial?
A large group of people forcibly entered the Capitol, overwhelming law enforcement officers on site.
The mob was armed with a wide array of weapons, including metal bars from police barricades and officers’ batons and riot shields.
The mob violently assaulted police officers throughout the day, using actual and threatened force.
The mob coordinated and demonstrated unity of purpose, marching through the Capitol, chanting threats against members of Congress and Vice President Pence.
Upon breaching the Capitol, the mob pursued its intended target—the certification of the presidential election—reaching the House and Senate chambers within minutes.
The mob’s unified purpose was to hinder or prevent Congress from counting the electoral votes and certifying the 2020 presidential election, effectively halting the electoral certification process.
The transfer of power happened in spite of Trump, not because he didn’t make the attempt. Rebut the Court, not me. But this would require you to read, which I know you won’t do, and argue in good faith, which you aren’t and won’t.
As to your second topic: Of course, as long as you’ll agree that whatever sentence Biden gets Trump also gets but to greater scale, to reflect the difference in both the number and sensitivity of the documents retained. See, that’s the difference between Democrats and Republicans: we’re willing to hold our leaders to account and we expect them to be subject to the same laws the rest of us are.
Sure a bunch of fuckwits did some dumb shit, and quite a few did some really bad shit. For all of them, I fully support throwing the book at them. However, there is zero proof that Trump is culpable in it.
If you really want to block me but can’t, I’ll go ahead and stop engaging you. I fully respect your wishes and I’m truly sorry if whatever I said somehow caused you grief. I wish the best for you and hope that someday you’ll look back on this conversation objectively, and not through a lens polarized by political beliefs.
Read the ruling I linked and all the cited case law in it. Here’s some relevant portions:
The question thus becomes whether the evidence before the district court sufficiently established that the events of January 6 constituted a concerted and public use of force or threat of force by a group of people to hinder or prevent the U.S. government from taking the actions necessary to accomplish the peaceful transfer of power in this country. We have little difficulty concluding that substantial evidence in the record supported each of these elements and that, as the district court found, the events of January 6 constituted an insurrection.
It is undisputed that a large group of people forcibly entered the Capitol and that this action was so formidable that the law enforcement officers onsite could not control it. Moreover, contrary to President Trump’s assertion that no evidence in the record showed that the mob was armed with deadly weapons or that it attacked law enforcement officers in a manner consistent with a violent insurrection, the district court found—and millions of people saw on live television, recordings of which were introduced into evidence in this case—that the mob was armed with a wide array of weapons. The court also found that many in the mob stole objects from the Capitol’s premises or from law enforcement officers to use as weapons, including metal bars from the police barricades and officers’ batons and riot shields and that throughout the day, the mob repeatedly and violently assaulted police officers who were trying to defend the Capitol. The fact that actual and threatened force was used that day cannot reasonably be denied.
Substantial evidence in the record further established that this use of force was concerted and public. As the district court found, with ample record support, “The mob was coordinated and demonstrated a unity of purpose . . . . They marched through the [Capitol] building chanting in a manner that made clear they were seeking to inflict violence against members of Congress and Vice President Pence.” And upon breaching the Capitol, the mob immediately pursued its intended target—the certification of the presidential election—and reached the House and Senate chambers within minutes of entering the building.
Finally, substantial evidence in the record showed that the mob’s unified purpose was to hinder or prevent Congress from counting the electoral votes as required by the Twelfth Amendment and from certifying the 2020 presidential election; that is, to preclude Congress from taking the actions necessary to accomplish a peaceful transfer of power. As noted above, soon after breaching the Capitol, the mob reached the House and Senate chambers, where the certification process was ongoing. Id. This breach caused both the House and the Senate to adjourn, halting the electoral certification process. In addition, much of the mob’s ire—which included threats of physical violence—was directed at Vice President Pence, who, in his role as President of the Senate, was constitutionally tasked with carrying out the electoral count.
If you want the links and citations, they’re in the PDF; the text is largely unedited, I just removed paragraph markers and numbering. But you’re not sorry, and you don’t respect anyone. You’ll deny and deflect and trot out any meaningless tripe in response to actual evidence, because you don’t want to live in this reality. That’s why I don’t want to engage with you anymore. The best you’ve got is a “nuh-uh 🤡”. Good luck with that, and good day.
I’ve read the “relevant portions”, however, in them I still fail to see how Trump himself is implicated. It would be the same if I were to imply that the BLM riots in Minneapolis during 2020 were instigated by Maxine Waters. I’m not, as each individual chooses to riot, and implying that Waters, even with her rhetoric, is not the one at fault for the riot in Minneapolis, just as Trump is not responsible for the riot in DC. You’ll forgive me if I don’t trust a ruling handed down by a court that’s sympathetic to Trump’s opposition.
I’m more than happy to engage in a civil discussion about this, and any other issues, but from all sides, there’s no “there” there when it comes to Trump as a traitor or insurrectionist. Simply a man who was upset about losing an election and the refusal of states to investigate into abnormalities, real OR imagined by the Trump campaign. If he truly was a dictator, he would have refused to leave on 1/20. He didn’t. The peaceful transfer of power occurred like it has throughout our history. The lack of charges of treason and/or insurrection by now, especially with the different factions within both the democrat AND republican parties makes that quite clear - there’s no evidence of such.
Didn’t Trump love to talk about that Alzheimers/Dementia-Test he once took and how well he performed and remembered that 5 things they asked him to remember?
This sounds like a joke I already heard. Maybe we can look up the dislike ratio from back then.
Your statement was about the cognitive test he was bragging about, that’s what I was responding to. I fully admit that Trump will brag about anything, not sure where you were going with that statement. If you’d like to take it in another direction, feel free.
Literally not defending anyone. Learn to read. It’s in my post history disputing misinformation about Trump and clicking on the post show it as deleted but I know facts won’t get in the way of your feelings.
Sneaky edit! You couldnt find any instance of it being armed, could you???
Armed with what? Cameras and cellphones? Get your news from somewhere other than the daily kos. And I recall Hillary’s plot to get electors to “vote their concious”
Thanks, but I didn’t need that confirmed by someone who doesn’t know what treason looks like. As to the ballot, it’s no skin off my nose if you want your state to waste every electoral college vote they’re allotted.
The betrayal of allegiance toward one's own country, especially by committing hostile acts against it or aiding its enemies in committing such acts.
The betrayal of someone’s trust or confidence.
The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.
Seems the one libs are all hanging their hat on is the 1st part of point 3. However, Trump was president on 1/6/21, so who was he trying to overthrow? Himself? Has he attempted to overthrow Biden in the ensuing years? If calling the election “rigged” can be construed as such, you’ve got an even bigger problem on your hands as Raskin, Waters, Schiff, among others, did the same in 2016, so they’re traitors?
Now, if you want to talk about how Biden withheld a billion dollars from Ukraine unless the prosecutor investigating Burisma, and is now dumping billions of our dollars over there… and remember kids, Ukraine has never been our ally. If you feel it’s prudent to start another proxy war with Russia, ask Afghanistan how that turned out.
Replace Joe with the evil orange man and watch the like/dislike flip instantly!!!
Fixed that for you. Stop pretending like treason is okay.
No, I said what I said. When did he get charged with treason?
Just because he wasn’t charged with treason doesn’t mean he didn’t commit treason by advocating an armed insurrection against our democracy. (See: the US post-Civil War Reconstruction Era for further examples.)
And if you want to why he wasn’t charged for that, it’s because of Republican Special Counsel Ken Starr’s disastrous opinion that sitting presidents are above the law and can’t be prosecuted, and must instead be impeached–which, if you remember, Trump was, not once but twice. Of course now Trump is arguing that he’s still above the law and deserves “total immunity”, which only further shows that he is, in fact, a wanna-be dictator.
Saying “Trump wasn’t charged with a crime so therefore he did nothing wrong” and “Trump can’t be charged with a crime because current and former US Presidents must have total immunity from prosecution” is very clearly circular logic.
It’s not murder if they don’t find the body!
Or the classified documents by the corvette in the garage! Oh wait…
Well, you should probably elect better representation if you feel he committed treason by telling people to peacefully and patriotically make their voices heard, and that super treasonous decree telling everyone to go home. Considering not even AOC or Ilhan Omar brought up charges of treason, gonna go ahead and guess that there’s literally zero evidence, let alone reason to even try, but you seem to know more than they do. Also, for a dictator, he did a pretty piss poor job of remaining in power. Also pretty sure Ken Starr never stated sitting presidents are above the law, we do still have the impeachment process, which you also brought up. Yes, he was impeached (brought up on charges) by a liberal house, but was subsequently acquitted (found not guilty) by a conservative senate.
Oh, he didn’t need to be charged; it’s been ruled that he fomented an insurrection in the Courts, and that’s treason. Now that gets kicked up to SCOTUS for review, but here’s where you’re in trouble: if any higher Court including the SCOTUS wants to overturn that ruling, they’re going to have to show their work as to why, and they can’t, because it’s simple fact as shown by the video evidence of the day and sworn testimony by everyone who didn’t hide behind the Fifth Amendment.
Now. I don’t expect you to accept any of that, but it’s dangerous to go alone, so take this block.
It won’t help you, but much like everyone you’ve ever cared for I’ll be happy never thinking about you again.Okay okay, that was excessive; I didn’t really mean it. I’m sorry.Pinpoint exactly how he tried to remain in power. The peaceful transition of power occurred on 1/20/21 as scheduled, nary a violent incident to be found. Your zeal to see a man you disagree with destroyed, being fed by pure idiots as well as some who have far more nefarious intentions, is undeniable. Reams of documents and thousands of hours of video evidence still haven’t surfaced. Yet they keep feeding you lie after lie. If such evidence existed, it would be plastered all over the news, and I would stand beside you to throw him in prison.
On a different topic, but one that’s more in line with the meme posted that started all this, do you agree that Biden should be impeached and put in prison for what remains of his life for the documents he was in no way legally allowed to take possession of after his time as vice president, nor were they secured in any way, shape or form? Or do you agree with AG Garland that he’s unfit to stand trial?
Huh. I can’t seem to block you from this instance; I don’t know if that’s a lemmy.world problem or a sh.itjust.works problem. Ah well, since we’re still here: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/12/23SA300.pdf
The transfer of power happened in spite of Trump, not because he didn’t make the attempt. Rebut the Court, not me. But this would require you to read, which I know you won’t do, and argue in good faith, which you aren’t and won’t.
As to your second topic: Of course, as long as you’ll agree that whatever sentence Biden gets Trump also gets but to greater scale, to reflect the difference in both the number and sensitivity of the documents retained. See, that’s the difference between Democrats and Republicans: we’re willing to hold our leaders to account and we expect them to be subject to the same laws the rest of us are.
Sure a bunch of fuckwits did some dumb shit, and quite a few did some really bad shit. For all of them, I fully support throwing the book at them. However, there is zero proof that Trump is culpable in it.
If you really want to block me but can’t, I’ll go ahead and stop engaging you. I fully respect your wishes and I’m truly sorry if whatever I said somehow caused you grief. I wish the best for you and hope that someday you’ll look back on this conversation objectively, and not through a lens polarized by political beliefs.
Read the ruling I linked and all the cited case law in it. Here’s some relevant portions:
If you want the links and citations, they’re in the PDF; the text is largely unedited, I just removed paragraph markers and numbering. But you’re not sorry, and you don’t respect anyone. You’ll deny and deflect and trot out any meaningless tripe in response to actual evidence, because you don’t want to live in this reality. That’s why I don’t want to engage with you anymore. The best you’ve got is a “nuh-uh 🤡”. Good luck with that, and good day.
I’ve read the “relevant portions”, however, in them I still fail to see how Trump himself is implicated. It would be the same if I were to imply that the BLM riots in Minneapolis during 2020 were instigated by Maxine Waters. I’m not, as each individual chooses to riot, and implying that Waters, even with her rhetoric, is not the one at fault for the riot in Minneapolis, just as Trump is not responsible for the riot in DC. You’ll forgive me if I don’t trust a ruling handed down by a court that’s sympathetic to Trump’s opposition.
I’m more than happy to engage in a civil discussion about this, and any other issues, but from all sides, there’s no “there” there when it comes to Trump as a traitor or insurrectionist. Simply a man who was upset about losing an election and the refusal of states to investigate into abnormalities, real OR imagined by the Trump campaign. If he truly was a dictator, he would have refused to leave on 1/20. He didn’t. The peaceful transfer of power occurred like it has throughout our history. The lack of charges of treason and/or insurrection by now, especially with the different factions within both the democrat AND republican parties makes that quite clear - there’s no evidence of such.
He tried to get a mob to murder his own vice president.
We were there. It was not too long ago. We remember.
The fact that he’s crap at seizing power doesn’t mean he should get away with it. In fact, guess what usually happens to failed golpistas.
Oh boy. Lay off the Maddow. You were there? In the room? Neat! Bust out the tapes and prove that’s what happened!!!
He did it live on television, you idiot.
Point to a clip where he told people to bum rush the capitol, riot, and shit on Pelosi’s desk. I’ll wait.
Didn’t Trump love to talk about that Alzheimers/Dementia-Test he once took and how well he performed and remembered that 5 things they asked him to remember? This sounds like a joke I already heard. Maybe we can look up the dislike ratio from back then.
I do recall something like that, and I recall him passing it. The dude brags all the time about dumb shit, I will wholeheartedly agree to that.
Your point?
My point?
The statement was: “Replace Joe with the evil orange man […]”
My point is, no need for that. The orange man is way ahead of you. I’d credit him for coming up with that meme, years ago.
Your statement was about the cognitive test he was bragging about, that’s what I was responding to. I fully admit that Trump will brag about anything, not sure where you were going with that statement. If you’d like to take it in another direction, feel free.
Yeah post that are low effort “orange man bad” don’t get shit on and deleted all the time you muppet.
Funny that you call me a Muppet while defending a literal Muppet. You do you.
Literally not defending anyone. Learn to read. It’s in my post history disputing misinformation about Trump and clicking on the post show it as deleted but I know facts won’t get in the way of your feelings.
Oh boo hoo. Show me on the doll where the orange man hurt you
Most literate online Trump supporter.
…tips his hat. G’day!
It was right in the democracy. He thought it was my pussy; he’s not particularly bright.
Most clever response yet! He didn’t hurt your democracy though, he didn’t try to keep the opposition off the ballot.
Yeah he just repeatedly called the election rigged and tried to replace the Biden electoral votes with Trump ones by means of an armed insurrection.
But hey, he failed (just like how he fails at everything else) so no harm no foul. That’s how law and society work, right?
Sneaky edit! You couldnt find any instance of it being armed, could you???
Armed with what? Cameras and cellphones? Get your news from somewhere other than the daily kos. And I recall Hillary’s plot to get electors to “vote their concious”
https://nypost.com/2016/12/15/celebrities-beg-electors-to-be-heroes-and-vote-against-trump/
Thanks, but I didn’t need that confirmed by someone who doesn’t know what treason looks like. As to the ballot, it’s no skin off my nose if you want your state to waste every electoral college vote they’re allotted.
treason /trē′zən/ noun
The betrayal of someone’s trust or confidence.
The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.
Seems the one libs are all hanging their hat on is the 1st part of point 3. However, Trump was president on 1/6/21, so who was he trying to overthrow? Himself? Has he attempted to overthrow Biden in the ensuing years? If calling the election “rigged” can be construed as such, you’ve got an even bigger problem on your hands as Raskin, Waters, Schiff, among others, did the same in 2016, so they’re traitors?
Now, if you want to talk about how Biden withheld a billion dollars from Ukraine unless the prosecutor investigating Burisma, and is now dumping billions of our dollars over there… and remember kids, Ukraine has never been our ally. If you feel it’s prudent to start another proxy war with Russia, ask Afghanistan how that turned out.
Cry more.
And that’s a block.
That’ll show me!
Lemmy feels way worse than reddit when it comes to bias. Tankies and freaks everywhere
I know right!