• NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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    8 months ago

    Because Israel and Iran are enemies and have been in a state of semi-war for ages? And because Israel is an Apartheid state whose raison d’etre is ethnic cleansing?

    • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      yeah, fuck the government of Iran generally, but I support any decision they make here. anyone can get points for stopping genocide and killing Nazis. literally anyone. even Nazis! that has happened before!

    • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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      8 months ago

      So Iran can fund jihad against Judaism itself, and it’s Israel’s fault?

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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        8 months ago

        Literally yes. The state of anti-Semitism in the middle east is a direct cause result of Israeli Apartheid.

        Edit.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            Uh yes? Iran is oppressive as fuck, but yeah they’re not an Apartheid state, and hell even if they were. At least Iranian women get citizenship and the right to a fair-ish trial.

            • Meansalladknifehands@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              Bro gtfo, kurds have suffered under Iranian regime for more than a century, israel palestine conflict doesn’t even come close.

              Yeah you get the fair trail as long as your aren’t kurd.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                8 months ago

                israel palestine conflict doesn’t even come close

                Man we have a genocide going on in Gaza.

                Admittedly I don’t know much about the state of Kurds in Iran, but again we have a literal genocide in Gaza. What little I have read doesn’t mention anything that intense in Iran.

                • Meansalladknifehands@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  I’m not denying the ongoing genocide, but acting like Iran is some kind of good faith actor in the region is total bullshit.

              • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                no its not close. fuck Iran’s givernment generally, not the good guys, but killing Nazis is always good. everyone gets points for that even if they otherwise suck.

        • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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          8 months ago

          You think hatred of Jews among Muslims started after the creation of Israel?

          That is ahistorical nonsense, and you know it.

          Do you wish to try again?

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            You think hatred of Jews among Muslims started after the creation of Israel?

            Not after the creation of Israel, after Zionists started trying to take Palestine in 1917.

            • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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              8 months ago

              Conveniently ignoring about a thousand years of history there, little buddy.

            • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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              8 months ago

              Conveniently ignoring about a thousand years of history there, little buddy.

                • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                  8 months ago

                  There were 300,000 Jews there when tbs Mamluks took power and 5,000 when the Ottomans took power.

                  What happened? Did the Jews disappear?

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                    8 months ago

                    You can literally look up what happened on Wikipedia, but the short of it is Mongol invasions and Mamluk misrule. I mean two thirds of the population left, that shit got everyone (though it admittedly got Jews and Christians more). Then it was victim to more Ottoman misrule. Not saying these are good things, but speaking as a Muslim Middle Eastern guy the scathing hatred for Jews in the modern Middle East is unlike anything from before the 20th century, and the stereotypes you’ll usually see (mainly the deceptive Jew that can’t be trusted to hold a promise and Jews controlling the world) are direct results of Zionist actions.

                  • boyi@lemmy.sdf.org
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                    8 months ago

                    Where do you get the 300,000 figure?

                    A quick read through Wikipedia showed significantly lower number.

                    Prior to the Muslim conquest of Palestine (635–640), Palaestina Prima had a population of 700,000, of which around 100,000 were Jews and 30-80,000 were Samaritans,[67] with the remainder being Chalcedonian and Miaphysite Christians.[5][68][69]

                    The pace of conversion to Islam among the Christian, Jewish, and Samaritan communities in Palestine varied during the early period (638–1098),[70] and opinions vary regarding the extent of Islamization during the early Islamic period.[71] While some argue Palestine was already majority Muslim by the time of arrival of the First Crusade, others contend that Christians were still in the majority and the process of mass adoption of Islam took place only from the 13th century onwards, during the Mamluk period.[71]

                  • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    Are we totally going to ignore the fact that the Mamluks and other Turks were foreigners who only had Islam to try to bond with the region they were taking over. It’s not like it was Levantine Jews vs Levantine Muslims.

                    It’s a lot like how the US helps Israel because it has the same western values despite religion.

      • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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        8 months ago

        literally yes. they didn’t give a shit before the 'all Jews are aligned with israelc protocols of the elders of Zion fanfic those fuckers are pushing.

        and then making their entire existence genocide and atrocities.

      • AggressivelyPassive@feddit.de
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        8 months ago

        Talking about the “initial fault” in this conflict is moot. We’re at a point, where both sides can reasonably point to some events in the past and blame the other side for the conflict.

        Fact is, Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and its allies are religious fanatic militias, while Israel is a liberal democracy, supported by pretty much all of The West™. Of course the expectations towards Israel regarding human rights and international law are slightly higher. And let’s be honest, what Israel is doing right now is certainly not helping calming the situation, or even making long term peace.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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          8 months ago

          while Israel is a liberal democracy, supported by pretty much all of The West™.

          Man Israel has more than 5 million people under an occupation that denies them any and all human rights. They’re not a liberal democracy in any stretch of the word.

          • kurwa@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Israel is an authoritarian state, they throw people in jail for disagreeing with the government, or just being Palestinian / Muslim.

            • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              authoritarian, apartheid, theocratic, genocidal and willing to start world war three over looking bad

              Iran is authoritarian and theocratic, and the people there don’t love that.

              I feel like one of these things is worse than the other. indefensibly, past the fucking moral event horizon, ‘kill them all and then shoot the bodies to make sure they’re dead’ levels of worse.

              world war three isn’t, like, acceptable. theres no defense for that sjit, especially with some of the military hardware they now have.

        • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          lol “liberal democracy”. they’re as homophobic and more transphobic. they’re howling fascists that make the Nazis look like noobs (learning from history I guess. in a the worst ways). they don’t have virtue.

          but iranisnt trying to start world war three, and they aren’t trying to do a genocide, so theyre the sensible allies here.

          unless you want a global thermonuclear war. then by all means; back the Zionist terror forces.

        • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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          8 months ago

          I don’t know if I fully buy that argument.

          If somebody supports Israel, they are supporting a genocide based on perceived land needs of the Israeli people.

          If somebody supports Palestine, they are supporting a genocide based on the outright extermination of the Jewish people, funded by Iran and Qatar.

          I don’t think we can get anywhere unless all of us as leftists acknowledge that the Jews of Israel will be in the same position the people of Palestine are in right now if we don’t thread the needle of support and guess what? We are not fucking threading that needle.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            If somebody supports Palestine, they are supporting a genocide based on the outright extermination of the Jewish people, funded by Iran and Qatar.

            What? No significant player in Palestine is trying to do that.

            • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              equivocating ‘the Jewish peolle’ with kapo genocide orcs doing 'protocols of the elders of zionc larp is antisemitic as fuck. what do you expect from a bunch of literal Hitler apologists though?

            • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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              8 months ago

              If we pretend the “elected” government of Palestine is in significant than sure.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                8 months ago

                Uh… Hamas has tried to make peace with Israel before. Multiple times. Including two attempts to hand over Gaza to the PA and start peace negotiations. Israel has refused all of them.

                • StormFather@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  Hamas killed all the PA in Gaza after the takeover in 2006. when did they ever attempt to give gaza back?

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                    8 months ago

                    So first, “Hamas killed all the PA in Gaza” ignores that it was the PA trying to overturn the result of democratic elections. Not saying Hamas didn’t do fucked up things either, but let’s not forget how it happened.

                    That said, there were many efforts for reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah. You’ll notice a theme of Israeli opposition to all of these.

                  • sazey@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    Israel was literally funding Hamas in order to drive a wedge between Palestinians and stop chances of a unified leadership arising. Netanyahu admitted to as much. It is an Israeli media source, inb4 muh bias.

                • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                  8 months ago

                  Israel isn’t the one rejecting the cease fire right now.

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                    8 months ago

                    Uh… They are? Hamas has stated what they consider an acceptable ceasefire by listing their bare minimum “if we don’t get this there’s no point” demands and Israel keeps rejecting them. It’s Israel refusing to compromise here.

                    Also you ignored my reply.

          • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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            8 months ago

            uh, not the Jewish people. I support Palestine, and I’m not down for killing the guy who runs the donuy shop, or the guy at the deli, or even two of my ex girlfriends.

            equivocating ‘the Jewish people’ with ‘israel’ is blatantly antisemitic and potentially genocidal. stop.

            • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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              8 months ago

              I don’t believe you truly didn’t understand what I said. I think you just wanted to tell the person concerned about antisemitism that he is the true antisemite.

              You will be blocked if you try that on me again. So please either try good faith dialog in your next response or don’t bother responding.

              • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                they’re not concerned about antisemitism if they’re equating Jewish identity with a genocidal fascist apocalypse cult that draws protocols of the elders of Zion fan art on everyone’s maps.

                well, not in the direction one would hope they’re concerned.

                • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                  8 months ago

                  You were told you would be blocked if you didn’t stop playing that game.