Lemmygrad is a collection of Marxist communities, for memes, learning, news, discussion, media, or anything you like.
There’s a big chance that your instance blocks Lemmygrad, so the best way to interact with the community is either joining there or creating an account on an instance that doesn’t blocks us. You can check this on the instaces section of your instance. This is what it looks like for Lemmy, but you can basically add /instances to the URL and it will take you there.
Due to the huge influx of users after the Reddit debacle Lemmygrad got a lot of account requests so it takes time for approval, be patient.
This is a case where I don’t really think machine translation does it justice, but taking the translation at its word:
We have a few key problems here. The resolution that was drafted obviously does not protect the Palestinian people from aggression, and the alternative drafted by Russia and China is not being accepted by the western powers. Despite China and Russia’s efforts to change the resolution, including alternate proposals, the resolution that was decided by the western powers was what was voted on.
Secondly, Hamas requested that they hoped what they and other factions submitted would be considered in the vote, and that is exactly what happened. The PA supported the resolution, and yet China and Russia did not vote to pass it. Instead, countries like Algeria voted for it alongside the US.
Third, is the protection from genocide line. The US opened the talks with threats of heightened genocide should the resolution be vetoed. This isn’t an empty threat. The US made it clear, either they will bomb the shit out of Palestine, or they will proceed with the plan. Returning to point 1, the alternatives presented by China and Russia were denied, and the draft was rushed.
In short, a veto would have resulted in escalated conflict, a vote for would have resulted in full acceptance and a commitment to the colonial project, and an abstention would have resulted in the resolution passing but with the express disapproval of China and Russia, alongside their soon to come alternative propositions. China and Russia maintain the position of the two state solution and China in particular has stated that Palestine must be governed by Palestinians, and is willing to step in and make that happen if consensus among those in charge of Palestine is reached.
There was no easy, correct answer given the requests from MENA countries and PA, and the threats of the US to escalate the genocide after a hard fought ceasefire, however weak, was reached.
‘Other factions’ here refers to PIJ and other Palestinian resistance factions, not the PA.
The PLO (also called the PA) has consistently been brought to the table, and rather than wanting destruction of the PLO, Hamas, the PFLP, etc all maintain their stance is to reform and democratize the PA as a national unity group. Strides have been made in that direction thanks to events like the 2024 Beijing conference, where all of the Palestinian resistance groups and the PA were brought together. The PA is also the internationally recognized state authority over Palestine. The idea that the PA doesn’t at all count is, so far, conjecture on your part, unless you can find a primary source indicating that it isn’t.
I disagree with the PA’s decision, and I know they are compradors. However, the resistance doesn’t claim to be the authorities over Palestine, they maintain that the PA is, and that the PA needs to be reformed. Until that happens, the PA will always be seen as legitimate for the sake of UN resolutions.
Hamas has no problem handig over governance of Gaza. They have publicly stated they wish to continue only as an armed resistance group. At this point doing governance is a hindrance to them. The problem is that the resolution specifically attacks Hamas as an armed resistance group.
They would never agree to any resolution to lay down their weapons without a Palestinian state, in which case they would simply merge into the army of said Palestinian state with their weapons. Which brings us to another meme
Yes, so we have the PLO as the main authority in Gaza, and a resistance that will not disarm. The plan will not work to begin with, which is why China and Russia are drafting an alternative. Chinese nationalism has nothing to do with this, Hamas, the PFLP, etc will never disarm (nor should they) so the plan is a non-starter. China’s goal of factional unity within the PLO, and Hamas, the PFLP, etc goal of a reformed PLO are the angle China is trying to work in order to achieve Palestinian statehood as a significant lever to pull in ending the genocide permanently.
Don’t share that shitty strawman of my position, I’ve never once stated anything similar to that. You’re bigger than that, I hope.
China and Russia presented their alternative plan 2 days (iirc) before they passed the US resolution. The expectation was that they would veto the US resolution. With plenty of morally justifiable reasons, like the absence of a Palestinian state, they could easily present their own resolution as an alternative and win the moral highground.
They didn’t. They passed the US resolution instead.
You aren’t being strawmanned in any way.
Yes and no, the entire plan was given 2 weeks before the vote, and China and Russia rushed to give an alternative. I’ve seen nowhere that the expectation was to veto, just to not endorse the plan, which neither country did. Back before the Korean war, the Soviet Union boycotted the UNSC decision to invade Korea, but we all know that wasn’t an endorsement either. I suggest you read China’s statement, if you haven’t already.
As for your strawmanning of me, you absolutely are.
China did not endorse the plan to disarm the resistance. On the contrary, we know that will never happen anyways.
I’m not a Chinese nationalist, I’m a Marxist-Leninist. I have criticized China, I even said I would rather they take a more millitant stance in anti-imperialism rather than continue their present strategy. I think they are more than strong enough to do so in a way that the soviet union wasn’t sustainably.
I never once asked “why don’t “arabs” do armed uprisings against their oppressors.” I’m fully aware of the resistance’s stance towards the PA/PLO, and I’m also aware that China was pivotal in the 2024 Beijing Declaration that resulted in the following:
Side note: Algeria broke this by endorsing the plan.
China did not endorse the plan, knows that the resistance will never disarm, and was caught between the PLO’s endorsement of the plan and the resistances opposition to it. They abstained, and committed to working to establish Palestinian statehood, including the right to remain armed.
As I said, I would have rather them veto it anyways, but your framing of them as endorsing the plan and making a full pivot into participation in TRUST is what I take issue with. I wish China was doing more, but at the same time I’m not going to pretend they’re the same as the US here.
I never once told you to read, and you never once explained how the resolution being veto’d would stop it. I already told you that I’d rather China veto’d it, but you care more about arguing online than anything else.
There’s no difference between abstaining and voting for the resolution. The result is the same.
The result doesn’t matter, though. As you already said, the ceasefire isn’t real, the US Empire will go through with the genocidal settlement plan no matter what the results were. What matters is what China does materially, which has thus far included uniting Hamas and Fatah, establishing ties between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and presenting an alternative economic bloc to that which relies on Palestinian obliteration. You and I may argue that this is insufficient, but the major difference is that you argue that it’s evidence that China supports the genocide, is imperialist, and therefore must be destroyed, giving liberals ammo to oppose China across the board and uplift the west as a more “moral” alternative.
If you don’t actually think China should be destroyed, and is just not doing enough when it could be doing more, then you should reframe your critique into saying that it isn’t doing enough and that it isn’t sufficiently anti-imperialist. Doing so is far more productive and doesn’t give the liberals chances to “both sides” anything.