Inspired by true events from this morning

  • Road_Warrior_10@lemmy.worldOP
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    2 months ago

    For context: I make indie games and have released two so far and I’m currently working on the third one which is weird as fuck. So the way that Steam works is, they don’t send you money anytime you make a sale, but they send all of it at the end of every month. Now September is almost over and I got an e-mail titled “Steam Payment Notification” and I get all hyped up. I open it and read it that the Payment Notification is actually that there is no Payment since I didn’t make $100 in sales. Way to hype me up and bring me down, Steam.

    • Zoot_@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Youtube and twitch work this same way. When I was starting there were months where I didnt make any money because I didn’t meet the minimum. Hoping next month meets the requirement for you boss 🙏

        • Zoot_@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          It accumulates, so there is no money lost. It does kinda suck though that as you start, even though you can make money and did make a bit you don’t get to see it yet

          • Halosheep@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            It does make sense from a payment processing standpoint. It doesn’t make sense to spend more money on creating the transaction than is actually being sent.

            • tburkhol@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I used to pay a particular company by purchase order for this exact reason. CC takes 2-3% of the payment, but purchase order - they’ve got to get themselves into the company system, track the PO, invoice, track the payment…at the time, a common estimate was $50 to process a PO, and if you’re only buying $100 batches, that’s a big hit. Did not like that company, but they were the only place to get whatever it was I had to buy.

            • Zoot_@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              Absolutely. It’s got to be the way it is. Just kinda feels bad at first

    • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Does Steam take a cut for distribution?

      If not, while this emotionally sucks, they’ve a solid operational policy.

      • Road_Warrior_10@lemmy.worldOP
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        2 months ago

        Yes, their cut is 30% which is a lot, but they are pretty much the only big platform out there. Epic games has been trying to get in the game but so far they are not close. Their cut is 15%.

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I want to note that you’d need about $143 in gross sales to meet the threshold of $100 in net profit.

          On the surface that sounds like a lot. But, they’re providing a service without any guarantee of any income. Epic can only compete because they’ve few users and are willing to operate at a near loss in attempt to garner market share.

          This will be a difficult one for others to understand as a “good deal”. Gamers are usually correct when they pull out their pitchforks. This should not be one of those times.

          • Zedstrian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            While I’m no fan of Epic Games for bribing companies to keep games off of Steam for a year or more, Valve’s market dominance in PC game sales isn’t a good thing for developers or consumers.

            • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Competition in capitalism is always better than a lack thereof. But, we’ve not busted monopolies in a significant way since Ma Bell. And, even if we were, at 75% of the global market share they’d not warrant any action yet.

              There’s going to be a dominant organization because late stage capitalism sucks. And, I’d rather it be Valve than some alternative trying to fuck me over at every opportunity.

            • AlotOfReading@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              The thing is, steam’s market dominance is one of user choice rather than anticompetitive strategies or lack of alternatives. Steam doesn’t do exclusives, they don’t charge you for external sales, they don’t even prevent you from selling steam keys outside the platform, or users from launching non steam games in the client. The only real restriction is that access to steam services requires a license in the active steam account. Even valve-produced devices like the steam deck can install from other stores.

              Sure, dominance is bad in an abstract theoretical way and it’d be nice if Gog, itch.io, etc were more competitive, but Steam is dominant because consumers actively choose it.

            • Midnight Wolf@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Yeah! Other publishers should open their own stores and compete!

              Oh wait no fuck oh god oh what have we done

          • Serinus@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Epic can only compete because they’ve few users and are willing to operate at a near loss

            Bullshit. Epic’s loses are in paying for exclusives and giving away games while ruining their PR.

            Steam could operate at 15% if they wanted to. But… why would they do that?

            • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Neither is publicly traded. Neither of us know the numbers.

              Does Steam make money on hosting indie games?

              How does one research such a question?

              I don’t need answers. I had them before I made my second post above.

              Good luck to you.

        • JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Isn’t it free up to a certain amount?

          Also aren’t you able to create steam keys for free and resell them wherever you want and they won’t take a cut off those?

    • choss@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      Ayy I remember that toaster! This looks great! The sign with “Do not bite yourself to check whether you are a cake” got me smiling good

  • maneframe@lemmy.sdf.org
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    2 months ago

    Hey me too! I released my first game on Steam a month ago and by all objective measures it was a flop, but as a hobbyist I’m still proud of it. It honestly did better than I thought for a small niche game that I did a terrible job of marketing, and my one review so far was quite positive so I’ll count that as a small win as I move onwards to the next game.

    EDIT: Here’s the game because my reply is getting harder to spot below - https://store.steampowered.com/app/2792160/SnowDown/ - It’s a small Jackbox-inspired party game (using phones as controllers) but with real-time action and physics as you throw snowballs around and destroy structures.

    • gwen@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 months ago

      you cant just SAY that and then not mention the game name

      wow you really are bad at marketing

      • indomara@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        This is super cute! If I buy these now for my friends and family but set it to deliver the gift near Christmas, would you get the money now? Or not til Christmas?

        This looks perfect for when everyone is over on Christmas eve! <3

        • maneframe@lemmy.sdf.org
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          2 months ago

          I’m glad you like it! I actually made my first prototype right before last Christmas so I could play it when my family got together, and people enjoyed it so much I just kept working on it.

          As far as gifting goes, I actually didn’t know you could get Steam gifts that deliver later, so I’m not entirely sure of the answer, but I assume if they charge you for the game right away it would process the payment then too.

          Full disclosure though, only one person needs a copy of the game to run it and play with a group. Everyone joins the game by visiting a website (generally on their phone), similar to how Jackbox games work. So there’s no obligation to gift copies, but if you still do I will be quite honored and grateful!

          • indomara@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Aww, you’re adorable. I will buy the games closer to Christmas for everyone, my reading tells me that if I buy the game and the person does not accept the gift then they will give me a refund, so I imagine you won’t get the money until everyone accepts.

      • CondensedPossum@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        this is unexpected, i was expecting a COD type game but instead it has penguins and you’re supposed to have friends

      • Donjuanme@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Got it on follow, if I ever get a house with a better Internet connection I’ll give it a shot and leave a review

      • gerbler@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        As someone who is also awkwardly treading the line between being a soulless hack and trying to get my work noticed by literally anyone: please edit your top comment with a link to your game.

        I mean it. I can’t even muster the courage to post my renders to Instagram without feeling like some desperate influencer goof.

        • Randomgal@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          Bro this is literally all in your head. 99.9 don’t give a fuck what you do or don’t do, either positively or negatively.

          I’d you want to show it, show it. If you want to keep it for you, keep it. But it’s not about other people. It’s about you making YOUR choice.

        • maneframe@lemmy.sdf.org
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          2 months ago

          That’s a good call, thanks!

          I can relate though, I’ve honestly avoided actively using social media for the better part of a decade, so dipping my toe back in the waters has been a bit of a struggle. I can’t help overanalyzing everything I write, to the point it becomes exhausting trying to regularly post anything. And then it often feels like an exercise in futility anyway when you’re lost in the sea of other posts.

          So I figure for now I’ll focus my energy on making games and especially improving with the visuals (admittedly I’m a programmer first and foremost, so art is not my strong suit), and hopefully gradually gain more confidence.

          By the way, I’ve really appreciated yours and everyone’s encouraging comments here! Funnily enough, this is the most attention a post of mine has ever received, and I wasn’t even intending for it

    • Bongles@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Considering you’re a hobbyist and probably don’t have marketing, it’s too soon to say it’s a flop. Many games like that pop off later once it gets seen.

      • maneframe@lemmy.sdf.org
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        2 months ago

        I appreciate the optimism! I hope it can find an audience over time, but it’s definitely tough to stand out. For now, I’m aiming to just keep making games and improving, rather than giving up after the first try, which sadly seems to happen a lot out there.

      • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Rarely happens. The vast majority of game on Steam make the bulk of their sales within a few months of release.

    • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      What’s your game? Niche games are awesome. And if you made it with Godot I’m definitely interested.

          • maneframe@lemmy.sdf.org
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            2 months ago

            Unfortunately I’ve found that the latency over streaming makes the game less fun to play than when joining locally (or over a faster video call service like Discord), but for my next game I’m designing it to be more streaming-friendly so I’ll definitely be looking at building an integration then.

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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    2 months ago

    I have lots of bills that are less than that every month, and yet somehow I can’t just say they’re not worth paying…

    • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I am guessing you dont have service providers from all over the globe with international transaction fees

      • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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        2 months ago

        If I did I’d probably have lots of little satellite offices in various regions to make that easier.

  • Deestan@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    My bank: “We have a new valuation on your home! Open your app to see it!”

    “It’s down 2%!”

    • Muehe@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      FYI you have a typo in your last screenshot (This sign m[a]y not…):

    • indomara@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      But please don’t spend money on my previous games, I recognize that they aren’t that good I don’t want to burden anyone financially with them (I loved every minute of making them, but I was still a noob back then).

      You’re not my mum! I bought Be a Rock anyway. Keep going, make games!

      I believe in you!

    • thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org
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      2 months ago

      I will advertise this to my friends, they have lots of young people in their circles that go through games at a good pace. This looks right up their alley.

        • Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          My partner and I are both buying “Do Not Press The Button” as soon as it’s out. I’ve also told my friends about it lawl

          Seems like our bag for sure.

    • Wurzelfurz@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Would you mind explaining how wishlisting a game helps the devs? Is it an algorithm thing? Will it be shown to more people when it is being wishlisted more?

      • gwen@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        yeah pretty much, if a ton of people wishlist a game it pops up more on the front pages of categories bc that means it’s rlly popular

    • w3dd1e@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Does Wishlisting a game help the developer in anyway other than indicating excitement for a game?

      I’d love to know if there an any incentive to interacting with a game’s store page other than buying a game, obviously.

      If Steam gives a bonus for that kind of thing, I’m going to be a lot more generous with my clicks.

      • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        It definitely helps. Every dev I’ve heard talking about releasing a game stresses wishlisting. I forget why, unfortunately. It might make it more noticable, sort of like likensub on YouTube.

        I do know that refunding a game is the absolute worst thing you can do to it.

        • Baleine@jlai.lu
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          2 months ago

          I think its because people who wishlisted will get a notification to buy it once its out, boosting the game’s sales at launch, giving it a better chance to be featured on the front pages

          • ObsidianNebula@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            You’re correct on the two thoughts you listed. Wishlisting also makes the game more visible before release. For example, highly wishlisted games appear in the “Popular Upcoming” section, along with some other spots. This increased visibility before launch then feeds into the two points you made. I believe games that are highly wishlisted before launch are also more likely to appear on the frontpage right after launch.

          • w3dd1e@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            This is what I assumed,but if it helps in any other way, I’m happy to wishlist more games from small time developers.

            I use likes and subs liberally on apps like YouTube or TikTok, even if I wouldn’t normally want to subscribe. It costs me nothing to do and gives someone else joy. Why wouldn’t I?

            Eh, it messes up my algorithm but I don’t care. These Corporations know too much about me anyway, might as well give them a curveball.

    • jacecomix@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      One of my friends has your game wishlisted. That’s one more than I expected to see based on your post, so shoutouts to you for exceeding expectations! Hope you keep making better and better games. :)

    • sevan@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      Wish listed! Also bought Be a Rock, I look forward to being a rock later tonight, it sounds fantastic!

    • AGreenPurple@lemmynsfw.com
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      2 months ago

      Funnily I saw the playthrough of your game in YouTube and it really looks like a labour of love. As the guy who did the playthrough suggested, still need to buy it as a thank you.

      Or is that another game with a red button? The maker of the game I’m thinking about wrote a comment on YouTube

  • Swordgeek@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    I guess I shouldn’t be expected to pay for games until my total is over a hundred bucks then?

    • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      No you pay a financial service provider who pays Steam in bulk once a month. So yes same principle applies.

      • Death@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        shouldn’t those service providers wait until the total is $100 before they started to receive my money due to cost associated to sending and receiving money then?

        • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          The service providers are the ones who dictate the costs. They provide the infrastructure. The costs for these kind of transactions are much much lower because of economy of scale they handle millions of transactions per day across all their clients. Because they handle so many transactions they can charge a small percentage fee. The loss they make on small transactions they will make up with bigger transactions.

          While Steam uses a normal bank transactions to pay developers, because many of them are in the hundreds of thousands and some are in the millions of dollars so you don’t want to have a third party handling those that asks a percentage fee. You’d rather just pay the fixed fee the bank charges per transaction. Since it is cheaper for those large transactions. That fee can be $10-$20 especially on international transactions. That’s why Steam waits till that money is above a $100. And using a third party to handle those small transactions wouldn’t be worth the hassle. The percentage fee would be high anyway because of the low volume.

  • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I’ve had Google charge me $0.01 before for firebase usage.

    They really should have waited until I owed more since that cost them money.

    • ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net
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      2 months ago

      On my personal AWS account, Im paying them 0.17 cents a month.

      I wonder if they pay a fee since it’s hooked into my credit card.

      • kamen@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        0.17 cents

        So is that less than a cent or is it 17 cents? If it’s the former, I don’t think it’s even possible to make a transaction that small.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        They’re bigger so it’s hard to know, but it’s usually something like 2.9% + 10c a transaction.

        At their scale though who knows

    • rainman@lemmy.myserv.one
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      2 months ago

      Once a month I’d have to pay a few pennies to Google for our cloud use at a school district I worked for. It always baffled me!

    • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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      They should almost just make it so the blaze plan of firebase or other cloud services has a $1 non refundable pre-payment so they can just whittle away at the pennies instead of getting charged processing/transaction fees on a $0.01 transaction. Tops up to $1 if it goes to $0

      I think people would pay $1 to enable the paid plans. If you’re going that far, you’re getting $1 of use out of it.

      • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        They don’t. Their payouts leaked a couple years ago, of the thousands of streamers there’s a few hundred that make minimum wage or better. This pattern holds true for YouTube, only fans, etc.

        • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          It’s way more than a few hundred. What leaked was the twitch subscriber payout, which doesn’t count all the money spent on bits. Then there’s also sponsorships and youtube content.

          I follow several Path of Exile streamers, and when that released they said that that was not the total payout. They usually do some video guides of builds for the game that, alongside twitch generates content for them. Then there’s also sponsors for gaming rigs and other kind of stuff, sponsors to try new games… Maybe it’s PoE specifically but even streamers that oscillate between 200-800, maybe 1k viewers when there’s no other PoE streamer online earned more that minimum wage with just the twitch payout (given the country they live in ofc).

          • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            How often are those small streamers the only one though? Having times where you do almost ok aren’t that great if you make nothing 30% of your streaming time.

            • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              Given that the leak was the annual earnings from subs your question is irrelevant since it shows that the total average amounts enough.

          • lorty@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            For every streamer that makes minimum wage there are dozens that make so little they don’t even get paid.

            • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              It’s still more than a few hundred. I don’t remember how big the leaked doc was but it wasn’t in the thousands, it was bigger. Your statement can be true while the statement of the one I responded to be incorrect at the same time.

              I mean, you comment is true and refutes nothing I said.

      • Road_Warrior_10@lemmy.worldOP
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        2 months ago

        I can’t even begin to understand how hard it is to make it on Twitch. I assume probably the top 1000 streamers make the real money and the rest 99,5% probably make like $50 per month…

        • RiQuY@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          I streamed for like a year and a half+ and I only managed to reach the 50$ treshold to cash out 2 times, so yeah, it’s very rough.

        • moody@lemmings.world
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          2 months ago

          For most people, it’s a hobby for fun, not a job.

          Those that want to make a job out of it tend to spread out the content creation to youtube and tiktok, and often sponsorships fill in the gaps.

          The ones that actually make a decent living only from streaming are a fraction of one percent.

  • grandma@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    They don’t seem to have an issue sending $10 refunds to my bank account, I wonder how much it actually costs them

    • smeg@feddit.uk
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      2 months ago

      Complete guess here, but refunds are probably handled differently by the banks compared to new payments, i.e. undoing an error is probably free(ish), but paying people is how they get you

    • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      The bigger cost is probably the processing time, limiting to $100 probably drops the number of payments by 80%.

    • Disgracefulone@discuss.online
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      2 months ago

      How do you get into this? Could you DM me the info and perhaps a good starting place? I can’t work right now due to an injury and I’d love to look into this

      • WolfLink@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        My experience is with iPhone (yeah yeah boo Apple).

        Most of how I learned was just digging through Apple’s documentation, focusing on one goal at a time. How do I draw stuff to the screen? How do I handle touch inputs? How do I use the built in UI elements? How do I play sounds? How do I get GPS data? Things like that. I’d usually have an idea of a specific mini-project that would make use of a specific new tool.

        Note that I already had some programming experience (although it wasn’t much) before I started teaching myself this way.

        Here’s Apple’s website: https://developer.apple.com/develop/

        Just start by downloading XCode and playing with one of their sample projects. SpriteKit is particularly easy to get started with and there’s a sample project for it. (I’m assuming you want to make something like a game. If you want to make more of a utility app, look up SwiftUI).

        If you aren’t an iPhone user “Apple fanboy”, you can try this: https://developer.android.com/courses

        Also many game engines (e.g. Godot, Unreal, Unity) have support for both iOS and Android.

  • MarcomachtKuchen@feddit.org
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    2 months ago

    Do they just keep your earning in your account until one month your total outstanding earnings breach the 100$ threshold and you’ll receive all your earning in one transaction or does this money get swallowed by steam?

    • Road_Warrior_10@lemmy.worldOP
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      2 months ago

      I think they keep your money until reach the threshold. Steam aren’t scummy so I’m pretty sure there is no shady stuff going on with your money.