- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
Nintendo has been actively taking down YouTube videos that feature its games being emulated or modded, which has sparked significant discussion and concern within the gaming community.
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“So, those guys generate positive advertisement for our games. How do we stop it, and make sure that public opinion shifts to «Nintendo is cringe and you’re a loser if you play this shit»?”
Also, what the fuck is with Japanese law, criminalising modding?
Also, what the fuck is with Japanese law, criminalising modding?
My best guess would be that they’re trying to get ahead of the recompiler scene before it catches a bigger foothold. But also, that lumps in the entire rom hacking and fan translation community, which I’m sure they view as perpetuating the piracy of their games.
My best guess would be that they’re trying to get ahead of the recompiler scene before it catches a bigger foothold.
If AI-generating images from copyrighted training material is legal, then generating source code from copyrighted binary code is as well.
That’s only true if you’re a large corporation doing it.
It’s probably not about that but rather to destroy the secondary market of modchips and save-file editors in Japan.
I don’t care what bullshit justification they try to come up with for it; the bottom line is that it violates computer owners’ property rights.
It is absolutely unconscionable, ass-backwards, Bizarro-world bullshit to privilege temporary fake Imaginary Property (IP) over and above actual property!
Nonetheless, the best thing would be to let those kinds of fans do what they do, because it is free advertising. But no, they’d rather be right than pragmatic, so they shoot themselves in the foot. Meanwhile, if they’re so worried that these guys have that kind of serious reach and influence - aren’t those the people they shouldn’t piss on??
Typical Japanese bullshittery. I watch sumo, and even when there was no official way to watch outside Japan the sumo association would get youtube accounts showing matches taken down. Tons of industries are still run by technological dinosaurs.
Japan was already living in the 2000’s back in the 80’s. The problem is that 40 years later, they’re still living and thinking in the exact same way.
“Japan has had the best 2000s tech since the 80s” I think is the succinct phrase you were looking for
It’s not just about the tech, it’s about their mindset. They’re stuck in that era mentally.
I mean, if the decision were made today, I guarantee our current supreme court in the US would not have given us fair use.
the current U.S. Supreme Court wouldn’t give you democracy, even though the American military has killed tens of thousands of people around the world in its name.
Could I at least get a barrel of oil? No need to beat around the bush (heh), I’ll take what I can get.
You sure is Nintendo of Japan and not Nintendo of america that’s doing it because the american office would use american jurisdiction
Also, what the fuck is with Japanese law, criminalising modding?
You state that this is Japanese law but what is clearly happeing here is nintendo abusing laws, please correct that statement of yours because your unfairly criticising the Japanese government for the actions of nintendo
I would assume a company such as sony or nintendo lobbied for that law.
Stop buying Nintendo products
The Switch was my last console purchase; I’m never buying another console from anyone ever again. I haven’t touched it in years cause every time I new game comes out that I want to play, I just pirate it instead. Why bother playing new releases on an underpowered, outdated handheld that struggles to render in 1080p, when I can play them in 4K on my PC at 60-120 FPS instead? Seriously, fuck Nintendo. Between their crappy hardware and crusade against gamers, I have zero reason to give them another cent of my hard-earned cash.
I grew up as a PC gamer (if you can call 8-bit computers PCs too) and never had a console as a kid. I got an Xbox One when it came out, just because of the Kinect, and never played anything on it other than Just Dance. Playing on my PC is more convenient. I got a Switch and played some Pokémon, but couldn’t get in the habit of playing on a device instead of a PC. When I got a Switch emulator on my PC, I played more on that than I did on the actual Switch in all the time I owned it.
The Steam Deck seems like a decent console, if that counts, because you’re free to do what you want with it
But perhaps you consider that to just be a handheld PC instead of a console, which I suppose is true
I remember back when I was a teen, emulating GBA games on our family laptop because I had no money. I did not buy one single Nintendo games (for myself), but played 90% of the Zelda series. Great games, annoying ass company.
Did you buy Nintendo console for performance or were you just surprised because it was your first one and you didn’t check what you were buying?
Of course not; don’t be silly. There were no emulators available when I bought one. Plus it was more of a present for the GF anyway, and she still uses it as a Ring Fit machine.
Keep buying Nintendo products so that we have systems with good games. They’re stuck in the last century but that’s for better AND worse.
I would never buy another Nintendo product after I bought the switch, played it for 2 months and never picked it up again.
Wife uses it, has a bunch of digital games installed, daughter wanted to use it, create an account on same device and she has to buy them again. Another reason to buy physical but other consoles let you play games on different accounts, it’s just Nintendo being c***s
Eh… They do have family sharing over multiple consoles and if it’s just a different user on the same console then they can play all the same games as you either choose the user before starting the game or your have multiple saves in the game itself…
There are so many things to hate Nintendo for. Someone tell homie he doesn’t have to lie to kick it
Never attribute to malice what can better be attributed to only using it for a couple months and not looking into family sharing yet
All you have to do is click the game and click your profile. If they had even attempted they would know this
And in your estimation they probably did click the game and click their profile and they came to Lemmy to try to make a Nintendo look worse?
In my estimation they don’t even own a Switch
No, user accounts on the same console have access to any physical or digital games on that console, just like with PS5 and XBox. Nintendo sucks and all, but not THAT bad…yet.
That’s definitely not true, I have at least two digital games that we share on multiple accounts.
That’s definitely not the way it works.
My partner has a switch. We both created as account on it. She buys digital games on it and everything that’s installed appears in the games list.
Anyone that picks it up can see that game list. If I’m playing then I pick a game from the list and it asks which account is playing and I can choose mine or hers. Then the game starts.
Never buy digital media
With all these news recently, you could think Nintendo wants to be hated. It’s truly shameful how the company has fallen since Iwata is gone.
Recently?! Nintendo famously hates their fans for years now.
On the plus side, it makes me feel extra good when I load their games onto my hacked Switch! Echoes of Wisdom was fun, but felt really short. I would have felt cheated if I’d spent $60 on it.
I mean, its predecessor was a basic-ass remake of a ten hour, thirty year old Game Boy game that also cost $60.
True, but it felt longer, even if it wasn’t. It also wasn’t worth $60, though.
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I don’t mind the art style, other than the ugly-ass blur filter applied to the bottom of the screen. Fortunately, you can remove it if you’re playing it emulated or on a hacked Switch.
Nintendo has gone after youtubers and content creators for 15+ years. They are infamous for it.
They still did this stuff under Iwata. It’s actually more of a Japanese thing than a Nintendo thing. Although the quality of stuff was better under Iwata
All they have is their IP, they must protect it at all costs. Nintendo doesn’t even let Shingeru Myamoto wipe is own ass out of fear he will get hurt.
It just keeps getting worse. I’m done with Nintendo
We won’t have much choices left it seems
Sony: Greedy fucks who don’t know their customers anymore Microsoft: Kills off great studios then complains they have no games
Indies is where it’s at
And what do you play them on? Sony PlayStation, Nintendo Switch, or Microsoft Windows? Maybe you play the Microsoft Windows version on Linux or macOS?
Playing the windows version on Linux doesn’t really support Microsoft. It’s not like on the consoles where they get a cut of the sales. Even playing directly on windows isn’t that terrible. I don’t remember the last time I purchased a copy of windows. I’ve been using the same key for like 15 years now
on my steam deck.
That means you’ll be playing the Microsoft Windows version on Linux, yes.
And that benefits Microsoft, how?
Oh no, I’m not saying it benefits them. It just means we depend on them.
Also means Steam, GOG, Itch etc. will see a high percentage of Windows games sold and played. It’s either that, or one of the consoles. Linux or macOS ports are incredibly rare.
Well, or play a mobile game.
We won’t have much choices left it seems
https://www.steamdeck.com/ is a good one.
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You can play any games you want, though? Throw an emulator on there and play all your old games. Install non-steam games, add them to Steam using its very easy to use “Add a non-Steam game” button, and play as normal.
Heck, if you don’t like Linux you can just install Windows on the thing.
Steam takes a lot of money and then turns around and invests it into the gaming community.
They also use that money to pay their employees more than the industry average and to make their owner a billionaire that owns a yacht collection. They could 100% afford to take a smaller cut with only Gabe “feeling the impact”.
I saw a review where it was said that you can only play steam games, but I just looked it up and apparently you can play all the other games as well by simply adding them or launching other launchers…
Steam invest’s into the gaming community? Do you have any source for that so that I can read about that?
They’re pretty much the entire reason gaming on Linux is as active as it is today.
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Yeah, I have a Steam Deck, and it’s literally just a PC in the form factor of a Switch. It has a BIOS menu, you can install Windows on it (but you really shouldn’t), you can install a different flavor of Linux (I recommend Bazzite) – you can even install and play pirated Windows games through Proton, more or less fine, though you have to work for it a bit more.
They developed Proton so that they could get Windows games working on the Deck, and the reason they didn’t make the Deck run Windows is they wanted greater control over the OS than Windows affords. Proton has benefited all gamers on Linux. More recently, they’ve officially partnered with Arch as of a few days ago (which is what SteamOS is built on): https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/the-arch-linux-team-is-now-working-directly-with-valve-steamos-and-arch-should-both-benefit-greatly
and just to gush a bit more: the Deck is the only thing I can remember pre-ordering in the last 10 years and being genuinely happy that I did.
And add to that the story behind DXVK, which was the turning point around 2018 for Linux gaming. Valve hired the guy who created it, so they could develop it professionally instead of as a hobbyist. With it remaining open source and free.
Yes, they do it because it helped them achieve what they wanted. But they don’t lock it down and they work with a lot of OSS which is then upstreamed.
I don’t own a deck, but i know it’s way more then JUST a steam game player.
My fault, I watched a review where it was said that you can only play steam games, but I see that this isn’t true. You can indeed play all your PC games or whatever
Steam takes a lot of money for their service, which is a problem.
They take the same amount of money as other console makers and the store cut is completely unrelated to what Nintendo’s lawyers do which is the actual topic here.
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This isn’t a good argument, right?
The topic is Nintendo who make a handheld console and unless CD Project make a GOGBoy with a bespoke SteamOS-like “console OS”, yet another storefront for Windows PCs is hardly an actual alternative.
I also though of them because they recently improved their subscriber agreement (apparently not for selfless reasons but still an improvement esp. in the light of what Nintendo is currently doing).
Not that you need to use special tools. SteamOS is built on Arch so you can just… y’know, install shit on there.
Thx, I did not know about this one
Steam getting a cut isn’t a problem, it’s a well deserved rewsrd.
I wonder why you think that way? Do you know how high their cut is?
I’ll give my own experience as a Steam customer and aspiring game dev:
I’ve never had a problem with Steam that wasn’t quickly and satisfactorily resolved. Usually, in ways that go above and beyond Valve’s stated responsibilities. They have been quick to respond to the two hardware tickets I’ve raised over the years of owning a Steam controller, two Steam Links, a Valve Index, and my own Steam Deck.
In the many years that I’ve used all flavors of Linux and installed all manner of native games and non-native games, it has only been in the last 4 or 5 years that the process has become, in my own experience, painless enough for me to not only consider suggesting other less technical people I know to try Linux, but to enthusiastically recommend it. They were the strongest single driving force I am aware of in bringing day-one mass-market release games to Linux.
I have, over the years of my dealing with them, come to believe that money spent towards Valve is materially making my life better in ways that just playing games through Steam doesn’t fully encapsulate.
They provide development assistance and funds for open source projects in a way that truly gives back to the projects they work with, their company is run in a way that I find personally satisfying and aspirational, their leadership feels like they’re maintaining their relevance in the industry instead of being disconnected money-men…
I respect their decisions enough to consider their cut reasonable as compared to the services they provide both directly and indirectly to the PC gaming industry as a whole.
I see why you have a positive view on Valve / Steam. However, while this can be the case for many people, it still doesn’t adress what is typically criticised.
One is that they take 30% of the money, which can be described as incredibly high, compared to other paltforms like Epic Games (12%). Is it justified just because they have the same service as any big company has? I don’t know.
I think there is much room for discussion about this, however, I won’t discuss it any further here, because brainless people just downvote my comment.
My Steam Deck has a 512GiB SD card full of pirated games using lutris and sega genesis and nintendo ds roms on it. it is more comfortable to just buy stuff and play, which i do with titles that are worth it (thats the internal memory for), but you are not limited in any way (except that it has to work on linux)
My Steam Deck has a 512GiB SD card full of legally backed up games
FTFY 😁
to be fair, most of those “backups” are played once, if they suck they get thrown off instantly and if they are good they stay until the price point in the store doesn’t pain me anymore. so it’s really just a temporally displaced backup, you are right :-)
ETA: “Doesn’t pain me” depends on the content: i did not shy back from buying for example Baldurs Gate 3 at full price. Indie devs normally get full price and automatically bought DLCs too, but i’m not into throwing my cash after the Bethesdas and EAs of the gaming world.
You can still install other game stores such as Epic or GOG and add games to the SteamOS gaming mode. Autoflatpak also works for that as well. I don’t have the steam copy of FFXIV but no issue, I added it to my library without issue.
Indies and decent publishers, Itch.io, GOG, It might regress a little, but gaming won’t go away.
It will just move or transform
Tue choice is indie. Always has been.
Exactly…I’m sure that’s the literal point they are trying to make.
I just ignore them all completely and give them nothing like they deserve.
VR is still growing
Recent laws in Japan have criminalized console and game modding, as well as save file editing
What the flying fuck, Japan?
Yeah all of these are ridiculous but save file editing? lol. That’s insane.
Tendy doesn’t like people giving themselves pokemon reserved for events
Predatory life-service bullshit before it was cool.
Nobody should give a flying fuck what “Tendy doesn’t like” because they are not entitled to dictate what people are allowed to do with their own property.
The owner of a copy of a Pokemon game has every right to edit his save file, in exactly the same way that the owner of a paper copy of a novel has every right to cross stuff out and write his own fanfic in the margins. These are fundamental property rights that have been well-established for hundreds of years, that Nintendo and other megalomaniacal copyright tyrants are now trying to destroy.
I concur
While we’re at it, game design patents are bullshit
Like all the abandoned event Pokemon that are in the files and never fuckin’ released.
I used to hand out event cards for the arceus and gigatons flutes during Diamond and Pearl. Kids loved my store.
Hah. Fucking nothing better to do? We in the USA need to deal with our highest courts taking away women’s bodily autonomy, but over there they are clearly focused on the real issues.
They’ve been on some kind of emulation crusade then, because it looks like they just killed Ryujinx:
Yep, they already removed the github and download pages from the website, last version was 1.1.1403
Okay, so now ten people can upload it.
Was there a Linux version?
Yes, some people already posted here or on it’s own news comments that you can still download the AUR/flatpak/I don’t know.
Sounds like someone got promoted to a high position. If I’m right it’s the typical “New Manager Must Make Waves To Prove They Belong” level of stupid unique to corporate.
Or they simply are soon to launch the next console and want the happiest investors for the event.
I like their panoply of games, but I cannot in good conscience support this company. The time, effort and money they spent on their legal department could have been used elsewhere… Like pokemon maybe? I’m glad Palword saw daylight.
They’re suing Palworld too btw
Is that surprising to anyone? The specific grounds they’ve chosen for that lawsuit is odd but if any of their legal battles have merit its that one. Palworld is intentionally toeing the line between derivative and blatant ripoff.
I mean, gaming patents are horse shit from stage one. There’s 0 reason you should be able to patent a method or mechanic in a creative medium other than creepy corporate BS
That was the selling point behind this game “The Medium”. The copy was the most tone-deaf thing, gloating about its one-of-a-kind patented mechanic.
My first reaction, especially as an aspiring indie dev: “Well, I’m not touching that just on principle.”
Jerks.
That was the one where the chick could switch to white hair and swap between “worlds” just like Silent Hill but slightly different?
Yeah, except I think you could play two characters in parallel (universes?) at the same time.
Seemed neat. Shame they had to encumber it like that.
It also basically screams “If not for this super amazing novel mechanic…this is nothing special!”
Honestly, though - “method or mechanic”, do you think palworld is a pretty blatant copy of Pokémon or not? Like, most of it. Not just a single bit.
There’s monster collecting and battling, something numerous other games have done.
That’s where the similarities really end
Fair enough!
That logic could easily apply to any kind of patent or copyright. That’s not to say you’re wrong but it’s part of a larger discussion than it seemed like was happening here.
I grew up with a Nintendo controller in hand.
There’s a very good reason I now game almost exclusively on PC. None of this is going to convince me to come back. Quite the opposite in fact.
Nintendo has been on my list of most hated companies for awhile now. Just can’t stand how they operate and design their games.
Well hang tight there, the games are dope. Just the legal dicks are the scumbags.
the games are dope
gestures broadly at the latest Pokémon titles
Grew up the same way. Some of my all time favorite games are still some of the classics. That being said, I wouldnt shed a tear if they go bankrupt.
This can’t be a new thing. This was one of the conditions Nintendo announced when they dropped their stupid “register with us to be allowed to do lets plays” thing.
Oh, and it’s not just Nintendo. All of the big publishers believe they own your videos that use their games. I’ve been involved in discussions with people personally who were trying to figure out how to demand licensing fees from YouTubers.
This is goingnto get worse before it gets better. This has been a traffic jam caused by everyone waiting for somebody to go first. Nintendo is just the one who has volunteered to be the first mover.
Replace “children” with “economist” or “lawyer” in this:
They just killed Ryujinx too, proving it wasn’t the fact that Yuzu was making money.
I missed this - what happened? (Searching now)
Nintendo visited the main developers home in brazil and came to an agreement to end Ryujinx, a former dev has confirmed this over on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ryujinx/comments/1ftvi13/posted_via_ryujinx_discord_server/lpuz6pt/
Ghoul behavior
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I remember etika talking about the nintendo ninjas doing the exact thing
And it isn’t the first time they’ve done this. Disgusting.
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Yeah I’m now emulating games I own on switch on deck because my switch hardware is so wonky with controllers randomly disconnecting
steam deck is the best switch online device i’ve ever used ;)
Which switch emulator do you use? I’m pretty savy with Linux and run it on my desktop but haven’t really taken the dive to set any of them up. Metroid has been calling my name lately and I’m thinking it’s now or never. Got any suggestions?
I used emu deck and it made emulators too easy to setup. Never did the switch stuff but have ran cemu for breath of the wild for wii u. Also have the original Xbox emulator and GameCube going.
oh i meant switch online for older games (nes, etc) since thats mostly what im into. havent done any current gen emulators. i think psone is the highest ive gone.
People got way too greedy with Switch emulation
The fact emulators are faster than the real hardware, can you blame them? Also, modding games is vastly easier, and people like mods.
Nintendo is just shooting themselves in the foot by not making these things more accessible. its a service issue. But nintendo prefers to invest in lawyers and not into their engineers.
The fact emulators are faster than the real hardware, can you blame them?
This is a problem Nintendo has had a few times before, choosing weaker hardware makes it much easier for other platforms to match and outpace them.
My first time playing Pokemon was emulating Pokemon Red on PC. For some reason they put it in Australian stores around a month after the US release so emulation was the only way.
Similarly GBA was playable on PC very early in its cycle. DS/3DS was a bit less attractive because of it screen layout and inputs but that kind of quirk aside underpowered handheld hardware is just asking for emulator support.
Switch represented Nintendo returning to its heyday of the SNES->Gamecube goodness.
Man, I feel like I dodged a bullet with that one. My SNES and GameCube controllers still work. So do my Wiimotes. (Okay, my N64 joystick is slack as my deadbeat cousin’s work ethic but otherwise…!) Heck even my Wii U slate seems fine (although the battery worries me.)
Switchcons have been a bit of a QA nightmare for a majority of people I’ve heard from though. Cheap and creaky, the sticks getting all drifty. Blegh!
I’m glad I bought a switch second hand and immediately installed a modchip on it, 0 money went to Nintendo
Didnt you technically support the guy that supported Nintendo?
Technically, yes, but I know for a fact that he went on to buy a PS5
I love a link to the past randomizer which is obviously not stock Zelda. Fuck Nintendo.
They’re clearing out the scene before the switch 2 releases because they perceive the current emulators as a major threat somehow.
Which I assume means that the new switch is similar enough in architecture that it would be relatively trivial to ship a fully functional emulator on hardware release.
Pretty insane because at least in the USA, emulation is protected by law, except if someone can successfully argue that you are bypassing DRM which is illegal.
In a working system, this wouldn’t be an issue but I imagine neither Yuzu nor Ryjunix would want to deal with Nintendo’s insane law team that could wreck them financially in a matter of days before even entering a court room.
I hope someone either makes an anonymous dev team for a future project, or gets assistance from a consumer justice firm/group to properly argue in court to shut Nintendo down. They really should not be able to do this because it was already a thing 24 years ago:
Sony Computer Entertainment v. Connectix Corporation, 203 F.3d 596 (2000), commonly referred to as simply Sony v. Connectix, is a decision by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals which ruled that the copying of a copyrighted BIOS software during the development of an emulator software does not constitute copyright infringement, but is covered by fair use. The court also ruled that Sony’s PlayStation trademark had not been tarnished by Connectix Corp.'s sale of its emulator software, the Virtual Game Station.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this backfires a bit. The reason most publishers/IP holders don’t go after videos on youtube and twitch is because it’s basically free advertisement for your game.
If this behavior leads to people holding back on making nintendo based content, it could fuck them over in the long run. If you were a streamer or youtuber, would you feel particularly comfortable making videos and streaming nintendo games?
I know I wouldn’t. There is no guarantee that nintendo actually puts effort into determining whether you are using an emulator or not. And even for the people who do use emulators, they may not be looking to continue making nintendo content.
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Nintendo is going after a lot of their biggest fans. It’s so obviously stupid, but they just keep doing it.
