What’s with all the downvotes?
Saw a few threads get blasted, and a de-federation post - did I miss the drama?
The problem with them is, they act like a cult. You might have heard that term in relation to Trump supporters and yes, they act and speak very similar. You have the same amouth of whataboutism, the same amouth of hypocracy, the same amouth of hate and the same amouth of dishonesty. I fucking hate the bOtH sIdEs argument and the enlightened center, but here we are.
A couple of weeks ago, a two year old post was brought up on Hot, because…idk Lemmy I guess. This happened all the time in the first weeks after the exodus. In this post OP called the “special operation” in Ukraine a powermove for marxism1) and a all in all good thing. You might think “It has been two years by now, maybe they changed?”. No, I looked into the account and OP immediately made another post, linking his original post and creating a circle jerk for his fellow ghouls. Here you had people celebrating, that now they are the ones with the banhammer while in the same time crying about not having a conversation.
Afaik, they do this all the time. This post might be up there too. So I blocked every single community and every user I came across in the wild. There aren’t that many, so they are a very small but vocal minority. Nothing of value was lost. Nothing of valule will be lost in the future. Mom told me not to talk to crazy people. Fuck them.
1) Oh, and if you think that an invasion of a sovereign nation by the worlds most corrupt Kleptocracy is a powermove for marxism, you can eat my socialist ass.
They say they advocate communism but in fact they’re a bunch of edgy Stalinism fanboys
Yeah they make leftist ideas look really bad. Fuck tankies.
That, I suppose.
But, they’re manuputing content, posting propaganda, brigading the votes in every thread.
Go read their comments, it’s a real classy group.
Ha, here’s a reply I got from their moderator:
Go and eat shit fed to you by your US masters as Europe crumbles, you pathetic eunuch.
https://lemm.ee/comment/898920
Their most active user also posts “news” and “politics” all over Lemmy, all day, every day.
Users from lemmygrad asking what’s wrong with their instance are just outing themselves as unhealthy users, as far as I’m concerned…
It’s a toxic echo-chamer full of misinformation and propaganda, akin to the donald on reddit with it’s hateful and delusional rhetoric in one massive circle-jerk.
Fuck that cesspool.
To be fair, I think a lot of us would be confused when we just straight up have never seen a comment from them before.
Seeing that, yeah…that’s pretty bad…
Yeah.
I’m not a ML; I more-or-less lean toward anarcho-communist ideals, and am generally sympathetic to anti-capitalists, though, and have wandered into Lemmygrad on more than a few occasions, especially before everyone else showed up and they were one of the more active corners of the space.
It’s always like that. They’re just angry trolls, riling each other up.
Eh, they have a bunch of alts too. They’re not just on lemmygrad.
I meant users from lemmygrad asking what’s wrong with the instance. Not users from other instances. I edited my comment to be more clear.
I stumbled into that instance from all a few times when I first joined Lemmy 4 weeks ago. There were not nearly as many users on lemmy at that time, so there were a lot of posts from that instance showing up in my feed…
But as reddit’s 3rd party apps have ended and we’ve had a huge increase in active users, it has really drowned out that toxic instance from my feed. It’s a good thing to me hearing you say most users now are unaware of them. I hope they stay in obscurity or are defederated.
Hey, lemmygrad, how’s it going
> the comment
Yea
nobody here gives a shit if anything is newsworthy. Or true. Or propaganda. This place is a shit show.
I mean what did you expect, you came to their place and insulted them.
Tbf, they deserved it. What I said is true. They are posting lies and propaganda all over Lemmy.
A tankie stubs his toe and blames the CIA
Careful, they’ll shit BRICS if you keep up those kinds of comments. Just need to defederate and move on, leave them with the other idiots like the libertarians and flat earthers.
they’ll shit BRICS
Not sure if autocorrect failure or geopolitics pun.
…I choose to think it was brilliance in action, but I’m an optimist
This tankie right there is especially not very bright. But, in other places, he’s invoking “dialectical materialism” like it’s some sort of Holy Grail that resolves “any of life’s issues”. Caesar on a cross… he reminds me of Edward Sallow’s poor understanding of “hegelian dialectics”
You may want to pass a screenshot of that message to your instance admins. Lemmy.world defederated from exploding heads after screenshots of messages by their admins like yours.
https://lemmygrad.ml/post/908097
These guys are a treat.
[…] you pathetic eunuch.
An impotent attack on a man’s manhood. Where did I see this again?
I had never heard of them before, but then after the hack yesterday I saw a HUGE influx of their stuff and whatever the right-wing crap was too (something ‘explode’ or whatever). My whole feed was just filled with obvious propaganda crap that I would’ve expected from facebook.
Both lemmygrad and exploding heads are garbage
The mod reply is 🤌 that is some quality vitriol
Oh wow, and here I thought it was just a cringe name. Thanks!
Privileged, uneducated western kids that spend too much time on social media telling others how the world should look like.
All of them with a severe fetish for soviet nostalgia
And the other 65% is CCP and Kremlin LLM bots.
I’m from Eastern Europe and if anyone here said Stalin was good actually they would get their ass kicked pretty fast. A lot of people have lost family to the soviet occupation here and people defending that monster aren’t really welcome. So yea, if I see posts praising Stalin in All I downvote them.
lemmygrad is geared towards radical marxists supportive of china and/or russia
this means their users (and moderators) come from a far side of the political spectrum and are going to tend towards radicalism and extremism, and that their views tend to align with two hostile dictatorships notorious for their repeated disinterest in citizens rights or basic decency
all of which makes for a hotbed of toxicity with a modteam that doesnt particularly mind as long as its directed towards non-marxists
Some drama is just down to their politics (authoritarian Marxist Leninist in the main), and some relating to their moderation based on politics (bans for users posting articles critical of China, allegedly). You should be able to search and find recent treads, here is one I still had a tab open from yesterday:
https://kbin.social/m/til@lemmy.world/t/171975/TIL-lemmy-ml-is-a-pro-authoritarian-CCP-shill-instance
Another part of this is people’s concerns about whether their politics influences their development of Lemmy.
What is most fascinating is they created something that respects the independence of each instance to rule themselves as they see fit regardless of whether they approve or disapprove of that instances beliefs and values, so it’s protected from even themselves. That alone shows the ideals of having respect for freedom and independence for any instance and that they support the idea of sovereignty for any that want it.
They are against authoritarian rules if going by the lemmy function with the ease with which individuals can leave instances and create new ones. If the concept of lemmy was applied to countries they would be against the idea of any invasions of sovereign countries, and respect each countries desire for independence and retaining their culture. Even the mechanism of defederation is a endorsement of keeping out invaders and they actively use it, and they’d be very vocal against countries that are invading or planning to invade saying it goes against the concept of the right for countries to rule themselves if they truly bought into the concept of what they created.
Lemmy as a tech is down right anti authoritarian with the power given to the people and built in foundation of ensuring the independence of each instance. Very ironic actually that certain historical figures that they worship would be incredibly against such a movement in real life that threatened their one party state and ease with which people could just leave and create their own nations if they disliked the rulers.
I’m just so done with the topic. I don’t want to engage in lengthy internet debates that benefit no one and only serve to reinforce each person’s initial stance. I have no interest either in debating against or in favor of tankies.
Although as far as my experience here on lemmy/kbin has been, the people who seem far more interested in making posts (not talking about this one) and constantly bring up the topic are anti-tankies. There seems to be a group of the community here that is fervently anti-tankie, and has to let everyone know at every chance how much they despise tankies and how evil tankies are and so on. These people are the most tiresome by far, at least in my experience, I have yet to come across any of the much dreaded tankie content. Maybe it’s because for some of the people in this group the mere fact (I don’t know how much of a fact is it and I honestly do not care) of the admins of lemmy.ml being tankies is enough to trigger their outrage and anger.
I will say this, why are any of us placing so much focus (and for some, outrage) on some very niche groups of terminally online leftists, when there’s been a very scary rise of fascism worldwide, especially in Europe and US, that is currently getting worse? I can guarantee you this new wave of fascism enjoys far more popular support than Marxist-Leninists have, or ever have in western countries. Seems like worrying over the mosquito that’s biting your arm while there’s a polar bear mauling the other side of your body. (Before anyone tries the “but tankies support fascism” gotcha, you should know actual Marxist-Leninists outside of these terminally online spaces do not support the current Russian imperial oligarchy, maybe people should also get informed about the concept of critical support, which is still very debatable)
I wish we had keyword filters on Kbin so I could be done with any and all content regarding the word “tankie”
Edit: To the very nice people who felt the need, Reddit-style, of just downvoting me without even taking part in the conversation. This goes out to you all: https://youtu.be/8mpeixSXYVU
I’m just so done with the topic. I don’t want to engage in lengthy internet debates that benefit no one and only serve to reinforce each person’s initial stance.
Yep. I’ve learned this long ago. No use getting into an internet fight. It’s not going to change anything but your mood
How do I upvote you more than once?
Not only is your argument well thought out, but your observations closley match those I’ve seen.
I chronically search by all>new, and other than people reposting screenshots (from a month ago) of Grad’s outrage at being de-federated, I have yet to see tankie posts.
Honestly, I think the two sides (tankie and anti tankie) are both teenager/20s looking at their side with rose coloured glasses.
Have you heard of our bae communism? Never mind that ugly business in 1970s Cambodia tee hee.
Have you heard about our bae Fascism? Franco did nothing wrong!
Well for one I’m grateful to read at least someone thought it was a reasonable opinion because I’ve seem to have gotten a personal record of people mad.
I thought we could be done with the Reddit-style attitude towards downvotes (especially with votes being public and all), I’m talking about people who are not even in the conversation and just happen to be lurking and downvote because they don’t like your comment or whatever. Such a lame thing to do.
If you disagree with someone over the content of their comment you can reply with your thoughts. Save the downvotes for trolls, bad faith actors, people spewing hate speech (especially fascist rhetoric) and people who are aggressively argumentative to the point of being disrespectful. We can keep it civil if we exclude the usual suspects of hate and trolling.
if u disagree with someone over the content of their comment you can reply with your thoughts. Save the downvotes for trolls, bad faith actors, people spewing hate speech (especially fascist rhetoric) and people who are aggressively argumentative to the point of being disrespectful. We can keep it civil if we exclude the usual suspects of hate and trolling.
I made a post about exactly this.
This is consistent with my experience. Haven’t seen any tankie content, but I’ve seen constant whining about commies from people who are still upset about the fall of Berlin.
I will say this, why are any of us placing so much focus (and for some, outrage) on some very niche groups of terminally online leftists, when there’s a been a very scary rise of fascism worldwide, especially in Europe and US, that is currently getting worse?
I won’t be playing the game of what-aboutism. Authoritarianism is bad no matter where it appears. It exists on both sides of the political aisle, and it should be rebuked every time, regardless of how prevalent you think it is on your team.
I think they’re rebuking people for being hypocritical and not actually paying attention; like fascism really is the bigger danger rn, while most people in the US at least have like kneejerk negative reactions to the concept of communism
like it is not a “both sides are equally bad” thing
@JasSmith @Phyrin @BrokebackHampton
Can you show me an example of a hard-leftist shoving their ideology down someone else’s throat?
How about a Hard-Leftist that crafted, then got passed a law that restricts the choices of the hard-right?
Are there numerous cases of Leftists driving through crowds or maybe shooting up a synagogue, that I’m unaware of?
I’m not saying the Left is perfect, but I call bullshit on the equivocation of the 2 sides.
Can you show me an example of a hard-leftist shoving their ideology down someone else’s throat?
Sure. Last year Biden issued an executive order to enshrine gender transition for children across the entire nation. The vast majority of Americans oppose “gender affirming care” for children. In red states, support is even lower. Biden should have left this up to individuals, parents, and states, but instead decided that his and his party’s values should be shoved down the throats of the entire nation.
Are there numerous cases of Leftists driving through crowds or maybe shooting up a synagogue, that I’m unaware of?
Here is one mass shooter. Aiden Hale was trans, and killed students and teachers at a christian school. Aiden wrote a manifesto, but the police are yet to release it.
Here is another. Kimbrady Carriker is a BLM and pride supporting, cross-dressing, mass-shooter.
Here is a “non-binary” shooter.
Here is another trans shooter.
I fully expect you to play the game of “but they’re not REEEEEAL leftists,” and I don’t care. I’m not claiming that both sides are equivalent. I’m saying that authoritarianism is always bad, no matter where it appears.
Joseph “nothing will fundamentally change” Biden is a hard-leftist now?
@NXTR @Phyrin @BrokebackHampton @JasSmith
You would have to ask JasSmith that question.
I’m asking you, now directly, to stop quoting me in every single comment. Jeez dude.
and there it fucking is
@JasSmith @Phyrin @BrokebackHampton
Lets start with the easy one:
So Biden’s trans-gender EO is forcing children to transition?!?!
OR
Giving them a choice?
I could not care less about what “Red States” want, since they haven proven they’ve lost their minds.
They don’t want, they DEMAND, a religious nation, under their personal God, because he’s the bestest one, in a country founded, in part, on religious freedom.
I’m at work, but I’ll take a look at those shooter articles.
@JasSmith @Phyrin @BrokebackHampton
As far as what you “fully expect”, that’s mostly why I plan to exit this conversation. Not because I don’t have rebuttals, but you’ve already made your decision about who I am, what I think and what I’m going to say, so, honestly, why bother?
This may be the dumbest, least accurate thing I have ever read. Are you Mike Lyndell?
Interesting how you neglected to bring up all of the straight, white, male, conservative, cisgender mass shooters that outweigh LGBT/BLM shooters by several orders of magnitude. Acting like the issue doesn’t skew drastically in one direction is disingenuous at best.
Nobody likes tankies. With good reason.
Fair but this whole defederate from every group someone doesn’t like is getting tiring.
Unless they sharing CP, let the market place of idea do its thing…
Tankies lose their edge lord bravado once you post xi pooh meme or askt hem about tianiamen square
What marketplace? I thought this place was for free.
You know what I was going to argue against Mill’s On Liberty and its bases for this idea but I really see no point in it. You have a nice day.
Fair but this whole defederate from every group someone doesn’t like is getting tiring.
I agree. Since I don’t like lemmygrad, I just block their communities. That’s a tool built into Lemmy to do exactly that. Problem solved. Everyone whining at this point wants to foment drama and control the experience for everyone. That kind of authoritarianism doesn’t belong here. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Is there a way yet to block an entire instance’s posts, or is that beyond what you can do as a user?
I have been wondering the same since the block function in the web version don’t seem to do anything.
The “marketplace for ideas” argument is a great concept until you’re in charge of moderating a server.
If you don’t want to deal with shifty servers, you block them, like you do with shitty people. If you don’t like the way the mods on your server are behaving, you can move to one that’s more aligned with your ideals instead.
I have absolutely no interest in dealing with people who think it’s okay for site moderators to remove any criticism of China because of “orientalism”, or sites that deny massacres and other crimes against humanity and I don’t think that’s a bad take.
The power of the Fediverse is that you can actually set up your own server if you don’t like a particular one and still talk to others unless you give them reason to block you. On your own server you’re free to subscribe to both lemmygrad and beehaw, as long as you don’t break the rules of a particular community and deal with abuse reports appropriately.
I have absolutely no interest in dealing with people who think it’s okay for site moderators to remove any criticism of China because of “orientalism”
I’m actually of two minds on this one
to give them the benefit of the doubt, a lot of “criticism” of China often boils down to sinophobia and a lot of Western internet users do not seem to be able to tell the difference
A lot of criticism about China is just racists being racist, which should definitely be called out.
However, posts like this one describe policies that go far beyond that.
My neutral take: a lot of people, for various reasons, don’t like hardline communists.
They are the worst kind of communists, they love russia and china but fail to understand neither are even close to being communist they are probably as far as you can get the other way
Exactly. Although there is much debate over what Marx envisioned when he put forward the idea of a Communist society, it certainly didn’t involve an authoritarian, single-party dictatorship where The Party oppresses the people.
Tankies are more Stalinist and Maoist apologists than actual communists.
The addled masses don’t even comprehend the differences between communism, socialism and dictatorship…
Not even Communists, Tankies specifically.
I am a bit uncomfortable with the word tankies. It really applies to a different group from a different time. It was a right wing slur that was used to paint trade unions and vanilla liberals as enemies of the state.
I would like a new word to help us describe the highly online left that was radicalized. Whose hatred of capitalism got so hot that they started to lionize horrifying 20th century communism.
I guess tankies will do, but it’s a really complicated word from a complicated time.
The original “tankies” were British communists who supported Soviet violence against Hungarian and Czechoslovak communists. The revolutionary regimes in those countries were led by their communist parties, but independent of the Soviet Union. So the tankies showed loyalty to Soviet imperial power against communism.
Your knowledge of the history exceeds mine, but I can’t help think your context furthers the point that this term is rather complicated. It still seems like a really strange word to be using in this context. It carries some historical weight that doesn’t quite fit in the modern wheel barrow.
Regarding the broader politics, modern anti-capitalists tend to “no true scotsman” the 20th century horror show. I have changed as I got older and come to accept that 19th thinkers lacked the creativity needed to incentivize collectivism at the state scale and fell back on force of arms. We (the 21st century left) must be more creative or those who suffered and died in that mess died for nothing.
I agree. Some people use the term tankie to call someone out for supporting genocide or denying any wrong doings of any authoritarian regimes with even a tangential relation to communism. Other people use tankie to delegitimize people who support social services and government actually doing something for its citizens. The latter group uses the term to make those they label as tankies appear as if they are extremists akin to the first group which, unfortunately, stifles progress and discussion. In conclusion, real tankies, the term itself, and those who co-opt it to stifle actual progress all suck.
Same kind of humorless dolts who inhabit left spaces on reddit and are a uniquely a product of reddit’s culture of total conformity. Leftblr used to make fun of them all the time. Speaking from my own experience, I am a tankie, or at least most would accuse me of being such. But I didn’t pass the Lemmygrad purity test, and they blocked my registration because I said gender is fake and gay on my application (gay used as a pejorative). Not saying I didn’t or deserve a warning but yeesh context matters. Which is my personal experience, but if they are that way toward other communists, they are going to be way harder on perceived liberals so most people don’t like seeing their posts day to day.
But I didn’t pass the Lemmygrad purity test, and they blocked my registration because I said gender is fake and gay on my application (gay used as a pejorative).
Wow, I actually have a small bit of respect for them now. Didn’t think that was possible.
No shit. It’s either complete obliviousness or the most straight-faced trolling ever performed.
Tell me you have never interacted with a gay person without telling me you have never interacted with a gay person. I trust gay people to tell me when they are uncomfortable with my choice of phrasing, not faceless CIA agents behind a screen who can claim whatever identity suits them at the time. Sounds like you need to work on some of that ingrained homophobia, my lad, because that specific kind of labeling words of the gay community as bad is extremely common in TERF circles as well. Whole struggle sessions have been had over the word Lesbian as a pejorative, of which I assume you have no knowledge of. Drag queens express their sexuality by saying some of the vilest shit imaginable and they have done more for the LGBTQ community than a bunch MLs pretending they are the vanguard of the revolution because they misunderstood Democratic Centralism is an organization principle during a revolution not just for funsies.
I could quote Judith Butler’s Gender Trouble on the subject but I won’t since it is beyond the scope of this thread. However, with Don’t Say Gay being popularized with Desantis’s campaign, challenging liberal puritanism is a responsibility of anyone who considers themself left.
It’s funny you should say that, because in fact I have a gay sister who is extremely active in LGBTQ+ mental health as a licensed psychologist, a brother who is happily post-hrt trans, and am dating a trans male. No, I think you’re just an asshole. :)
Most of the gays I know don’t appreciate having their identity wielded as an insult. Sounds like you need to work on some of that ingrained homophobia.
are you LGBTQ though?
because if not, this take isn’t it; there’s a lot about LGBTQ communities that you’re not going to understand just by being around them or being related to them
