- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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You forgot the 3rd panel: exploit people.
you generally have to win the birth lottery to get a head start there though
yeah, but if you do win it you get to have a good time.
it’s a wonderful system
There’s also unions. Come join me kneecapping the boss for trying to cross the strike line together!
Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?
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I’m 13 and this is deep.
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Wow what an original comeback, did your mommy help you come up with it?
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This implies
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Greed affects all systems equally
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Capitalism is great on paper (lol)
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All systems equally allow for “greedy people” to “take more than their share.”
Essentially, your argument doesn’t actually make any real analysis of the material makeup of different societal structures, it’s a form of analytical nihilism that, when presented with a question, refuses to answer at all.
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What if you are a shitty employee and the capitalist doesn t notice. You are getting payed way to much for the little work you do. Or you are working solo and selling your own goods those are choices.
For your first, outliers exist in every system, but a system is its averages and not its outliers. For the latter, you can’t really be expected to compete with mass manufacturing on price per quality.
You obviously cannot compete with mass production goods, but there are a lot of products like food, art etc, that benefit from being unique. I agree tho it is not the norm, but still a choice.
For now. Eventually even those industries will fail to compete.
i dont think that is what capitalism tries to be, its just that we have all these big corrupt governments that take things to this point
These big corrupt governments are a direct product of how the capitalist system functions. Politics are fundamentally inseparable from economics.
if you argue that big corrupt governments are a product of the capitalist system, then ill argue big oppressive governments are a product of the communist system
at the end of the day, i think both of these systems can work in theory, the problem is that neither one of these systems are implemented properly
as long fundamental human values such as ethics, morality, justice, equality and democracy are not valued, it doesn’t matter which system you choose, it’s not gonna work
And you’d be wrong to argue that because communist system produces governments that actually represent people. At the end of the day, you should spend some time actually learning about the subject you’re attempting to debate instead of wasting everyone’s time writing musings born out of ignorance.
so are you arguing that big communist governments such as china and north korea (and in the past soviet union) are not oppressive or their oppressiveness have nothing to do with communist system?
I can say that with absolute confidence having personally grown up in USSR. Similarly, if you look at the public opinions from China or Cuba it’s pretty clear nobody is feeling oppressed. You can even login in to Xiaohongshu yourself and talk to people in China and see they’re not oppressed. Seems that all the people oppressed by communists are either scum bag capitalist or they exist solely in the deranged minds of western libs.
or maybe they are scared to say that they are oppressed because they know that the app you are talking about is heavily moderated by the government? see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaohongshu#Content_moderation_and_censorship
also see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China
i didn’t grow up in ussr, however another user who did apparently didn’t have the same experience with you and there’s also a wikipedia page for human rights in soviet union which also contradicts your experience: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Soviet_Union
Ah yes, everybody in China is afraid to speak their mind. Imagine being a grown ass adult and genuinely believing that. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised given that you evidently form all your opinions based on wikipedia.
Weirdly, pretty much every western study on China shows that people actually living in China see their country as being more democratic than people living in US do.
- https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democracy-most-us-say-america-isnt-1711176
- https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2021/0218/Vilified-abroad-popular-at-home-China-s-Communist-Party-at-100
- https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-nations-are-democracies-some-citizens-might-disagree
- https://web.archive.org/web/20230511041927/https://6389062.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/6389062/Canva images/Democracy Perception Index 2023.pdf
- https://www.tbsnews.net/world/china-more-democratic-america-say-people-98686
- https://web.archive.org/web/20201229132410/https://en.news-front.info/2020/06/27/studies-have-shown-that-china-is-more-democratic-than-the-united-states-russia-is-nearby-and-ukraine-is-at-the-bottom/
Maybe there is no conspiracy here and vast majority of people in China genuinely live happy lives, and you just can’t accept that because of your biases.
Meanwhile, the user who is disagreeing with me is listing absolute nonsense as examples of supposed oppression which I already addressed in my other reply.
@yogthos @ngn If you say that having grown up in USSR you did not feel oppressed, that only means to me that you or your family were part of the ruling class. I also grew up in USSR and while I did enjoy free education and healthcare, there was a fair bit of oppression as well. As examples: freedom of religion, freedom to travel, freedom of ownership, among others. I am not saying that it was impossible to live there, but certain activities were severely “frowned upon”.
My family was a regular working family. I don’t know what this ruling class you speak of is either. Even if you just look at the background of all the leaders of USSR, they all have regular working class background. Meanwhile, last I checked churches existed in USSR, right to personal property also existed. The reality is that every society places some restrictions on personal freedoms, but claiming that the restrictions USSR placed on people were oppressive is the height of intellectual dishonesty.
I agree, through the lens of unfetted capitalism, but, with adequate regulation, I don’t think this is a necessary outcome. Although, perhaps “unfetted capitalism” isn’t capitalism?
Why would capitalists, who run the system under capitalism, choose to regulate themselves?
Capitalism can’t last forever due to issues like the Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall, and tendency towards monopolization over time. Regulation doesn’t stop this.
Perhaps it’s time to stop using appeals to purity and acknowledge that this is how capitalism functions in practice everywhere it’s been tried. Entire books have been written on the subject of why capital concentration is a necessary product of capitalism, and how capitalists use their wealth in shape society in their own interest. The government ultimately represents the class that holds power, and in a capitalist society it happens to be the capital owning class. That’s why even when regulations are enacted, they’re always dismantled in the end.
I probably get hate for this but I think it’s too easy to blame everything on capitalism. I think the lack of governance of big businesses is what is actually causing issues. The laws allow for exploitation and the infinite accumulation of wealth. Capitalism has to follow the laws…
Have you considered that there may be a link between Capitalism as a Mode of Production and the continuous strengthening of power in Monopolies over the State?
How can you not understand that all these things are related and are a direct product of the way capitalist system function.
The capitalist class largely writes the laws, and they don’t like competition at all.
- Competition is for losers. — Peter Thiel[1][2]
- George Carlin: It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.
- [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
- “Bourgeois Democracy”: What Do Marxists Mean By This Term?
Damn, who would have thought that a system where power comes from holding capital, the laws favor those who hold capital.
