I spent my whole life being told to not be a creep, don’t just go up to women they don’t want random men approaching them, they’re at the club for a good time with friends, etc.
So that only leaves online dating and I’m not a 10/10 so never get a match.
The number of upvotes on this is concerning. It means there are a super majority of people who voted on this comment that don’t know how to talk to others, and feel alone.
Mate, similar to how others have commented, you’re in a self-fulfilling cycle. You have to learn to just be relaxed first, talk with people for the sake of it, making friends, having fun.
Randomly approaching a woman, isn’t a great way to strike up a conversation that leads to something more (outside certain more familiar contexts like a party).
If your intentions are only “I’m gonna hit on this woman”, then you’re always gonna be creepy.
Woman are just people. Get to know people in general and you’ll have a much better time.
There are dozens of times a day where you can talk to people: in line, at work with colleagues, on public transport (if someone happens to mention something you know about and it’s not a private feeling conversation), hospitality staff, etc.
These are not suggestions of how to find a partner, but of low-hanging opportunities for conversation.
You may still be unattractive, which depending on why, you may or may not be able to work on, but this STILL doesn’t stop you from making friends or generally enjoying being around others.
The way you’ve commented is learned helplessness, and I truly wish you the best, and hope you take steps to pull yourself out of it, with the support of those around you (and professional help, if it’s something available to you).
From my experience online dating (as a man) is a complete waste of time. In about one year I got like 10 matches at Max and half of those didnt even had any form of somewhat decent communication.
I did put quite some effort into my profile but it didnt help anything.
Now since I switched sides I have gotten more likes in a single week than I got in a whole year just because I switched from male to female. I Am pre everything, so I dont even look remotely feminine and most of my pictures are kinda ass, but I dont really bother to make some good ones.
From my experience online dating as a man is either hit or miss. A friend of mine had luck with it several times, but at least for me online dating was the biggest waste of time of my life.
Dating sites have the data on this. Women on dating apps rate 80% of men below average. Men rate 50% of women below average. It’s not just a talking point.
That is true, but being rated below average does not make it impossible to find a partner. Just more difficult. On the other hand, when being rated below average you will get less matches, but from what I hear the matches you do get are less superficial.
Been doing it for a few months now and no matches. Rejected 4 times in real life. Also, because of other preconditions my capacity for social interaction is very limited.
I hate when people say “just put in some effort”. I’m doing it, I’m giving it all I have but I did so for about 10 years now and I got nothing. I don’t hate the people that rejected me but this can’t be normal, and I’m not the only one.
I’m happy for people where it works out but I feel immense pain knowing I’m back to square one for the 4th time. And let’s not kid ourselves, 10 years going by doesn’t exactly make me more attractive.
Are you liking lots of people on these apps or are you very selective about how you give out likes? If you’re not very selective you’re probably being flagged as a bot and it’s putting your profile at the bottom of the stack of profiles.
Are you using friend finding apps as well? I found that on those, the expectations are way more normal. If the goal is just to meet someone cool and then there could be a relationship after then that already lowers those guardrails that the dating apps cause, from my experience.
I highly recommend changing your approach if what you are currently doing is not working. I recommend joining a running or biking group local to meet people, or even looking for speed dating events in your city.
I guarantee there are people out there that would match your tempo perfectly. The caveat is putting yourself in spaces to meet these potential matches. Do you read, have any pets, or have any fun hobbies a potential partner would find attractive? If you do have any of these things, then mentioning it in your profiles and such can matter.
Someone I know, that I was strongly convinced was going to marry a body pillow, is married to a woman he has dated for a few years now. I firmly believe that there is hope for anyone to find a perfect partner. The crux is that you might have to change what you are doing to encounter some of these people.
I am constantly changing what I’m doing. I have been more selective and less selective over time. I have switched to a different dating app. Now there’s more people, but still no matches. I even got a friend helping me match people just so I am not too picky or anything. He also looked through my profile and said it’s fine. I am quite nerdy but every now and again I end up in random places trying out new things. Because of my preconditions I really can’t do this as much as I would like because otherwise I would go insane, so unfortunately that’s something I cannot change. Don’t get me wrong I will still try because giving up would suck even more but at this point I’m also starting to fight loneliness and depression again, which tbh was just a matter of time because of these things. I did therapy, I tried to grow and change, I did all of it. In fact, my self-optimization can at times be an issue in itself, which I have been trying to fix for the past 2 years, and I am aware of the irony.
What I’m saying is, if this is the way to find a partner, I might die before getting there, one way or another, and it’s incredibly frustrating when you never know what or when you’re doing things right or wrong.
I also realize that I’m sounding like an incel, but the truth is I effectively am. I definitely don’t wanna become old and bitter but everything is signalling me to give up.
That’s good that you are trying different things out, you really want to be casting a wide net to find your perfect matches. I’m of the belief that there’s probably only about ~5%-10% of the population that’s we are a perfect match for and vice versa, but that’s still a ton of real people and many of them may not be on dating apps.
I’ve been coaching a friend of mine that has had similar answers as you. He tried a different app and his match rate was still close to zero, if not zero. Oddly when he turned one year older his match rate went up a lot, so maybe there was a decent amount of women he was attracted to that wanted someone a bit older and more mature.
That’s good that you have had a friend look over your profile. I feel that dating profiles specifically are a bit clickbait-ish. Having some good quality photos couldn’t hurt your chances to having a conversation, do you have any pictures that show you socializing with peers and other women? I would encourage you to ask any women that are friends SOs or family to help give another look over your pictures and even your bio.
What I liked about some of the friend finding apps I mentioned is you could reach out without having to match with anyone. I was shocked at how many more conversations I was having with even people less than 5-10 minutes away from me.
That’s totally understandable to be limiting the amount of events for your own health. Being able to have fun while going out is an important part of it.
It’s okay to focus on yourself a bit more as well. I feel that dating comes second to your mental health. It’s important to show yourself some love to be able to share that same love with others. Growth and change don’t have to be linear, each step you take is worth the effort even if you feel like it’s been up and down. Self-optimizing feels like it should be helpful, until those shortcuts start hurting, as I’ve been sorely learning lol.
I recommend taking breaks from looking whenever you’re feeling burnt out, for your own sake. Sometimes it can be where you are that is impacting your outlooks. For instance if you’re trying to meet up with nerdy women in an area that isn’t very nerd friendly then there can be less nerdy women around your local area, at least on some of the apps.
I feel like so much of it really is about time and place being the main factors for finding your match. The owners of the dating apps want you to be on their dating apps as long as possible because they profit from it. Men and women get sick of these platform and pay for the pro-features that put their profile at the top of the stack for others to view. Many issues with modern dating is caused by these for-profit dating apps.
don’t just go up to women they don’t want random men approaching them,
I think many people can benefit from understanding how to strike up conversations with strangers generally. If you’re already comfortable making small talk in a line, with your seat neighbor at a bar or communal table at a restaurant, talking to fellow dog owners at the dog park,v or getting to know people during a meet and greet at a conference or happy hour, swinging by a new colleague’s desk just to say hi and get to know them, you’ll get a sense of what types of interactions are comfortable and flow naturally.
If you’re not comfortable approaching men, women who are with their significant others, people clearly outside your dating age range with small talk or simple conversations, it’s hard to build the skill and experience of approaching women you’d like to date if you don’t already have the foundation of approaching people you don’t want to date.
It’s also a great way to address the actual core premise of this post, that there are a lot of lonely people who could use friend making skills too.
So don’t be a creep, meet people as they are, don’t meet people expecting them to have sex with you
Work on yourself, go to therapy, get a hobby or read a book, join a reading group.
You have to be a part of a community to meet people. You can’t just hang out on the internet posting about how unfair it all is, and expect anything to magically change
I highly recommend using friend meeting apps, going to social events like running/biking clubs, or even going to a speed dating event in a city near you. There are countless perfect matches for you out there, but putting yourself in the right spaces to meet these people is what matters.
Those dating apps flag your account as likely a bot if you’re swiping “like” very often. These apps put you at the bottom of the ‘stack’ on these ‘like lists’ for women, so your account is literally never coming up for them to see you. If what you’re currently doing isn’t working it’s important to try something else, just like you might do when you’re out fishing.
My advice is to get off the internet and get involved with your community. Go to social events, not with the intent of finding somebody to date but with the intent of making friends and connections. Show up as yourself, don’t try to be somebody you aren’t in an attempt to impress, that’ll only mislead people.
Our society treats dating like job interviews, you get an hour tops to make a good impression on a total stranger. It works for some people who are naturally attractive whether it’s their looks or charisma and because that works for those people other people try to emulate that and get frustrated that it doesn’t work for them. Even if it does, that attraction is often superficial because it’s based on a false version of themselves.
In my experience it’s much easier for attraction to grow naturally between people who interact regularly and is more likely to last when those people are showing up as themselves from the beginning.
Online dating has also been poisoned by creepy dudes. A lady I matched to on Bumble told me that when she matched to some guy and when the dude realized they lived close enough, he wanted to have a quick one night stand with her. Now, this dude was supposedly a surgeon. So, it makes things difficult for all of us, who are looking for something more stable and long term.
And herein lies a big issue - only a minority of men are creeps towards women, but because they’re creeps towards so many women it means that women ubiquitously experience creepy dudes. That causes women to become (understandably) more guarded and jaded and makes things harder for the majority of men who aren’t creeps.
Can’t.
I spent my whole life being told to not be a creep, don’t just go up to women they don’t want random men approaching them, they’re at the club for a good time with friends, etc.
So that only leaves online dating and I’m not a 10/10 so never get a match.
!!!
Make conversation with other people at nightclubs!
Those who don’t want conversation will probably say nothing or one word
It’s fine trust!!
The number of upvotes on this is concerning. It means there are a super majority of people who voted on this comment that don’t know how to talk to others, and feel alone.
Mate, similar to how others have commented, you’re in a self-fulfilling cycle. You have to learn to just be relaxed first, talk with people for the sake of it, making friends, having fun.
Randomly approaching a woman, isn’t a great way to strike up a conversation that leads to something more (outside certain more familiar contexts like a party).
If your intentions are only “I’m gonna hit on this woman”, then you’re always gonna be creepy.
Woman are just people. Get to know people in general and you’ll have a much better time.
There are dozens of times a day where you can talk to people: in line, at work with colleagues, on public transport (if someone happens to mention something you know about and it’s not a private feeling conversation), hospitality staff, etc.
These are not suggestions of how to find a partner, but of low-hanging opportunities for conversation.
You may still be unattractive, which depending on why, you may or may not be able to work on, but this STILL doesn’t stop you from making friends or generally enjoying being around others.
The way you’ve commented is learned helplessness, and I truly wish you the best, and hope you take steps to pull yourself out of it, with the support of those around you (and professional help, if it’s something available to you).
All the best friend.
Bullshit. That’s just toxic internet culture talking. You may have to put some effort in your profile, but it worked for me and I’m a 6 at best.
From my experience online dating (as a man) is a complete waste of time. In about one year I got like 10 matches at Max and half of those didnt even had any form of somewhat decent communication.
I did put quite some effort into my profile but it didnt help anything.
Now since I switched sides I have gotten more likes in a single week than I got in a whole year just because I switched from male to female. I Am pre everything, so I dont even look remotely feminine and most of my pictures are kinda ass, but I dont really bother to make some good ones.
From my experience online dating as a man is either hit or miss. A friend of mine had luck with it several times, but at least for me online dating was the biggest waste of time of my life.
Dating sites have the data on this. Women on dating apps rate 80% of men below average. Men rate 50% of women below average. It’s not just a talking point.
That is true, but being rated below average does not make it impossible to find a partner. Just more difficult. On the other hand, when being rated below average you will get less matches, but from what I hear the matches you do get are less superficial.
Been doing it for a few months now and no matches. Rejected 4 times in real life. Also, because of other preconditions my capacity for social interaction is very limited.
I hate when people say “just put in some effort”. I’m doing it, I’m giving it all I have but I did so for about 10 years now and I got nothing. I don’t hate the people that rejected me but this can’t be normal, and I’m not the only one.
I’m happy for people where it works out but I feel immense pain knowing I’m back to square one for the 4th time. And let’s not kid ourselves, 10 years going by doesn’t exactly make me more attractive.
I had about 3 matches per year. I married one of them. Been together for almost 7 years now.
Are you liking lots of people on these apps or are you very selective about how you give out likes? If you’re not very selective you’re probably being flagged as a bot and it’s putting your profile at the bottom of the stack of profiles.
Are you using friend finding apps as well? I found that on those, the expectations are way more normal. If the goal is just to meet someone cool and then there could be a relationship after then that already lowers those guardrails that the dating apps cause, from my experience.
I highly recommend changing your approach if what you are currently doing is not working. I recommend joining a running or biking group local to meet people, or even looking for speed dating events in your city.
I guarantee there are people out there that would match your tempo perfectly. The caveat is putting yourself in spaces to meet these potential matches. Do you read, have any pets, or have any fun hobbies a potential partner would find attractive? If you do have any of these things, then mentioning it in your profiles and such can matter.
Someone I know, that I was strongly convinced was going to marry a body pillow, is married to a woman he has dated for a few years now. I firmly believe that there is hope for anyone to find a perfect partner. The crux is that you might have to change what you are doing to encounter some of these people.
I am constantly changing what I’m doing. I have been more selective and less selective over time. I have switched to a different dating app. Now there’s more people, but still no matches. I even got a friend helping me match people just so I am not too picky or anything. He also looked through my profile and said it’s fine. I am quite nerdy but every now and again I end up in random places trying out new things. Because of my preconditions I really can’t do this as much as I would like because otherwise I would go insane, so unfortunately that’s something I cannot change. Don’t get me wrong I will still try because giving up would suck even more but at this point I’m also starting to fight loneliness and depression again, which tbh was just a matter of time because of these things. I did therapy, I tried to grow and change, I did all of it. In fact, my self-optimization can at times be an issue in itself, which I have been trying to fix for the past 2 years, and I am aware of the irony.
What I’m saying is, if this is the way to find a partner, I might die before getting there, one way or another, and it’s incredibly frustrating when you never know what or when you’re doing things right or wrong.
I also realize that I’m sounding like an incel, but the truth is I effectively am. I definitely don’t wanna become old and bitter but everything is signalling me to give up.
That’s good that you are trying different things out, you really want to be casting a wide net to find your perfect matches. I’m of the belief that there’s probably only about ~5%-10% of the population that’s we are a perfect match for and vice versa, but that’s still a ton of real people and many of them may not be on dating apps.
I’ve been coaching a friend of mine that has had similar answers as you. He tried a different app and his match rate was still close to zero, if not zero. Oddly when he turned one year older his match rate went up a lot, so maybe there was a decent amount of women he was attracted to that wanted someone a bit older and more mature.
That’s good that you have had a friend look over your profile. I feel that dating profiles specifically are a bit clickbait-ish. Having some good quality photos couldn’t hurt your chances to having a conversation, do you have any pictures that show you socializing with peers and other women? I would encourage you to ask any women that are friends SOs or family to help give another look over your pictures and even your bio.
What I liked about some of the friend finding apps I mentioned is you could reach out without having to match with anyone. I was shocked at how many more conversations I was having with even people less than 5-10 minutes away from me.
That’s totally understandable to be limiting the amount of events for your own health. Being able to have fun while going out is an important part of it.
It’s okay to focus on yourself a bit more as well. I feel that dating comes second to your mental health. It’s important to show yourself some love to be able to share that same love with others. Growth and change don’t have to be linear, each step you take is worth the effort even if you feel like it’s been up and down. Self-optimizing feels like it should be helpful, until those shortcuts start hurting, as I’ve been sorely learning lol.
I recommend taking breaks from looking whenever you’re feeling burnt out, for your own sake. Sometimes it can be where you are that is impacting your outlooks. For instance if you’re trying to meet up with nerdy women in an area that isn’t very nerd friendly then there can be less nerdy women around your local area, at least on some of the apps.
I feel like so much of it really is about time and place being the main factors for finding your match. The owners of the dating apps want you to be on their dating apps as long as possible because they profit from it. Men and women get sick of these platform and pay for the pro-features that put their profile at the top of the stack for others to view. Many issues with modern dating is caused by these for-profit dating apps.
How do you even know you are 6 at best?
I think many people can benefit from understanding how to strike up conversations with strangers generally. If you’re already comfortable making small talk in a line, with your seat neighbor at a bar or communal table at a restaurant, talking to fellow dog owners at the dog park,v or getting to know people during a meet and greet at a conference or happy hour, swinging by a new colleague’s desk just to say hi and get to know them, you’ll get a sense of what types of interactions are comfortable and flow naturally.
If you’re not comfortable approaching men, women who are with their significant others, people clearly outside your dating age range with small talk or simple conversations, it’s hard to build the skill and experience of approaching women you’d like to date if you don’t already have the foundation of approaching people you don’t want to date.
It’s also a great way to address the actual core premise of this post, that there are a lot of lonely people who could use friend making skills too.
So don’t be a creep, meet people as they are, don’t meet people expecting them to have sex with you
Work on yourself, go to therapy, get a hobby or read a book, join a reading group.
You have to be a part of a community to meet people. You can’t just hang out on the internet posting about how unfair it all is, and expect anything to magically change
take care
You’ve reduced your options to online dating or hooking up with club girls. I’d start by expanding those options.
Play a sport that involves girls. Met many ladies by being above average at badminton. Does require some discipline to get gud first
I highly recommend using friend meeting apps, going to social events like running/biking clubs, or even going to a speed dating event in a city near you. There are countless perfect matches for you out there, but putting yourself in the right spaces to meet these people is what matters.
Those dating apps flag your account as likely a bot if you’re swiping “like” very often. These apps put you at the bottom of the ‘stack’ on these ‘like lists’ for women, so your account is literally never coming up for them to see you. If what you’re currently doing isn’t working it’s important to try something else, just like you might do when you’re out fishing.
My advice is to get off the internet and get involved with your community. Go to social events, not with the intent of finding somebody to date but with the intent of making friends and connections. Show up as yourself, don’t try to be somebody you aren’t in an attempt to impress, that’ll only mislead people.
Our society treats dating like job interviews, you get an hour tops to make a good impression on a total stranger. It works for some people who are naturally attractive whether it’s their looks or charisma and because that works for those people other people try to emulate that and get frustrated that it doesn’t work for them. Even if it does, that attraction is often superficial because it’s based on a false version of themselves.
In my experience it’s much easier for attraction to grow naturally between people who interact regularly and is more likely to last when those people are showing up as themselves from the beginning.
Online dating has also been poisoned by creepy dudes. A lady I matched to on Bumble told me that when she matched to some guy and when the dude realized they lived close enough, he wanted to have a quick one night stand with her. Now, this dude was supposedly a surgeon. So, it makes things difficult for all of us, who are looking for something more stable and long term.
And herein lies a big issue - only a minority of men are creeps towards women, but because they’re creeps towards so many women it means that women ubiquitously experience creepy dudes. That causes women to become (understandably) more guarded and jaded and makes things harder for the majority of men who aren’t creeps.
It’s truly a vicious cycle that makes things worse for everyone.