Anyone notice what these “non-professional” degrees have in common?
Nursing
Physician assistants
Physical therapists
Audiologists
Architects
Accountants
Educators
Social workers
Here’s a hint, look at the two least obvious ones:
43% of new architects are women:
https://www.ncarb.org/blog/new-architects-are-increasingly-diverse-explore-updated-demographics-data
And 60% of all accountants:
https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/accountant/demographics/
This is clearly a plan to minimize career paths for women.
Edit What the heck, lets check the rest of them…
92% of audiologists are women:
https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/audiologist/demographics/
88.8% of nurses:
https://www.aacnnursing.org/news-data/fact-sheets/nursing-workforce-fact-sheet
75% of physician assistants:
https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/physician-assistant/demographics/
70% of physical therapists:
https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/physical-therapist/demographics/
77% of educators:
81% of social workers:
https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/social-worker/demographics/
First of all aren’t audiologists doctors? Also where I live architects are considered engineers and saying engineering and medicine are non-professional is so absurd to me.
Also if people working in these professions could coordinate and organise a nationwide strike it would literally halt the entire economy.
Thanks for looking this data up. I think you’re absolutely right on this.
Today I saw the new Wicked movie. Afterwards, as I usually do after a movie, I went to the bathroom and checked my phone to see if Trump was dead yet. If he died, I was going to yell “ding dong the witch is dead”, then I was going to come out of the stall and tell everyone in the bathroom that Trump was dead, then I was gonna play “no one mourns the wicked” on my phone
Nursing is a no, but theology is a yes.
They’re rolling back women’s lib, one step at a time. We had 50 years. We weren’t even there yet and they’re taking it away from us.
Only if we let them. Make these bastards’ lives absolutely miserable.
Men who can’t handle their own feelings or learn to define themselves as individuals separate from a woman. And don’t have the wherewithal to enroll in therapy to figure it out.
That is MAGA. A reaction to women’s lib.
I guess if you’re a theology major that’s like becoming a professional in make-believe.
I have nothing against soul searching for personal betterment. That’s cool. It’s bizarre that it’s considered “professional” when an accountant, nurse practitioner, and social worker are not.
That probably depends on what style of theological study you are talking about, plenty of them are basically just historical literature specialist.
I think that a person who has decided to major in Theology has already passed the point where they’re soul searching for the most part. They’ve already decided to dedicate a lot of time to studying the thing they’ve already decided is the answer.
As a working professional electrical engineer, I get more, and much prefer, conversations of theology with more educated individuals than myself significantly more than I do with other technically minded people.
I’d also say that most people going into higher education for anything have “already decided to dedicate a lot of time to studying the thing they’ve already decided is the answer.”
I get the impression that you think you disagree with me much more than I think you disagree with me, at least from what you’ve said here in your comment. I basically agree with everything you’ve said, apart from these two points, which I think you implied more than outright said:
First, I think you are implying that “more educated individuals than [yourself]” is a group that includes theology majors, but does not generally include “other technically minded people,” which is something I disagree with.
And second, I think you are implying that the study of theology is simply an academic effort, like any other major. But the basis for my comment was the assertion that most people major in theology because they are already religious. They believe their own religion to be correct, and other beliefs to be incorrect, and therefore wish to study to further their devotion to that religion. Perhaps I am mistaken in that assertion, but that was the basis for my saying “they’ve already decided” the answer.
At this point whatever Trump dies of is suicide.
Fuck that I want to celebrate the hero that ends this psycho shit
I sure hope it’s the kind of suicide somw people commit by shooting themselves 3 times in the back of the head
And then falling down an elevator shaft. Onto some bullets.
Seriously? Architect? Accountant? What exactly does the distinction professional even mean then?
Professional… When you do it for a living and can live off doing it then you’re a professional.
Hookers are professional at sexual pleasures. Porn starts are professional at making sex videos. One could argue that these are not the same. Yet both are professions in my opinion.
Yeah I get that, but obviously in the context given here that that definition doesn’t fit what they’re trying to say. Like what is THEIR working definition of profession they’re using where such things as nurses cannot be referred to as professionals?
I really like the etymology of the word.
Thus, as people became more and more specialized in their trade, they began to ‘profess’ their skill to others, and ‘vow’ to perform their trade to the highest known standard. With a reputation to uphold, trusted workers of a society who have a specific trade are considered professionals.
-Wikipedia
There is no other term for this beyond treasonous sabotage of American interests.
It has also been reported that engineering, a business master’s, counseling or therapy, and speech pathology will not be considered “professional” either.
Engineering is not professional? What a laughable sack of shit. We’re going to have a lot of work ahead to undo this damage.
I look forward to improving our systems better than they’d previously been when trump and project 2025 showed up.
This is actually the one that I would agree with (edit: see below), if the difference is “professional” vs. “academic.” I certainly wouldn’t call a natural science degree professional, and if you’re in a research institution studying some form of engineering I’d probably put you in the same category. Just my experience/opinion though (and the rest of the exclusions are super stupid, I agree).
Edit: from the replies, this is referring to Professional Engineering; in my corner of the world, “Engineer” is an overloaded term that generally means electrical, mechanical, software, and sometimes computer engineer. My comment was referring to these engineers, who are rarely licensed and study alongside scientists in school. I completely agree with parent in the context of “professional engineering” (I mean…it’s right there in the name…).
I’m a state-licensed engineer, a professional engineer…
Even if your other points were valid, this has direct impact on people’s income for years after they graduate.
I’ll go further and point out that in general, we need art as well as science, not one vs the other.
E: No dude, look at how the word is defined: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional, licensed or not, engineering or any degree requiring training is professional.
I was interpreting the quoted text as encompassing all engineering fields, e.g., EE, mechanical, computer, etc.
If that’s not the case and this is for specific professional engineering degrees then yep, I certainly agree with you.
I still think all engineering is professional, as is nursing etc. Electronic, mechanical, computer, all of em.
Look man, just go by the agreed-upon definition of the word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional
A professional degree is historically different from an academic degree though. Math, chemistry, physics, biology, computer science—these typically produce (well compensated!) professionals, but they are not professional schools.
I am professional; I get paid to do the kinds of things that I did in grad school. But afaik no one would say I hold a professional degree.
All of this is besides the point of course—our student loan system shouldn’t disqualify people based on these sorts of semantics.
Using the same wiki you’ve linked, notice the word “accreditation” as key to the concept of a professional degree, with which you’ll then note all engineers who graduate in the US must be. Yes, all. ABET is our accreditation body. Thus, we are professional by your own definition.
Beyond that, one can also be licensed, but that is already in addition to already being an accredited professional by way of at least an accredited baccalaureate.
Finally, I’m going to be a little rude here, this example of useless pedantry is particularly why I left academia with prejudice. It’s been nice educating you on these unimportant minutea, take care.
Engineers are literally required to licensed by the state as “Professional Engineers” in order to do their job (or at least they have to be supervised by someone who is), just like doctors and lawyers are. If that doesn’t count as professional, WTF does?!
I was interpreting the quoted text as encompassing all engineering fields, e.g., EE, mechanical, computer, etc.
If that’s not the case and this is for specific professional engineering degrees then yep, I certainly agree with you.
This is exactly what our mess of a health care system needs … fewer nurses. This is exactly what our uneducated voter population needs … fewer educators. The downward spiral never ends.
As the boomers reach EOL… fewer nurses.
Actually it’s a bigger problem than that. Birthrates are declining and have been below replacement rate for some time. Without another source of population (such as immigration) in the long term there will simply be more and more old people and fewer and fewer working age people to care for them.
Everyone who doesn’t die young will get old, and as your body starts breaking down from age you’re going to need help with things, and once the amount of help required exceeds being able to realistically live independently you’re looking at a nursing home. With fewer healthcare professionals these nursing homes will become more neglectful and those employees who are present will be less caring due to sheer burnout. This is a problem which will affect everyone.
Disability is the only class of people that anyone can join. Disability rights are everyone’s rights because anyone can become disabled!
I work maintenance at a retirement home/long term care facility and the outlook is fucking grim folks. I’m relieved that my parents will probably be able to afford to age in place, because I couldn’t stand them living someplace like where I work. It is pretty expensive on the independent side ($6k+/month), and starting to become understaffed on the medical side, with little hope of attracting new talent to our rural, high COL location. There’s a $3k signing bonus, great, that’ll help with the $100k student loans from nursing school that exposes them to way better offers in more accessible places to live. I do my best to make life better for our residents, but even my team is 2 people short of full and corporate won’t list a single new position. Here comes winter and heat runs failing because they haven’t been serviced in 20 years, snow storms we’ll have to plow with one less team member than last year, and the fucking flu/COVID. If you think COVID is over go ask the staff at a nursing home.
Sorry, rant over.
It is pretty expensive on the independent side ($6k+/month)
So I’m currently working my grandmother through this process and we stumbled upon the most cost effective option for independent living which is to hire a care person to come by 10 hours a week (cost my grandmother about $400/week for 10 hours per week). They’re there to help with cooking and cleaning which are most of what an independent living facility would provide. Throw an emergency pendant (something like $30-50 per month) and you have all of the of features of a $6k/mo independent living facility for less than $2k/month over their current housing costs
I’m relieved that my parents will probably be able to afford to age in place, because I couldn’t stand them living someplace like where I work
I’m not sure what to expect when my parents reach that age. At this point I’m more worried that they won’t be able to retire given their horrendous financial discipline. My in-laws seem on track to die young given the sheer quantity of alcohol they consume, the frequency with which they drink and drive, and their predisposition to riding motorcycles to go bar hopping. My grandmother however needs to be moved into a memory care facility ASAP because she is at the point that she really shouldn’t be living independently anymore
What’s the consequences of this for those in those careers?
FTA:
“This means that those doing high-costing degrees, who may no longer receive the same amount as their degree may not be deemed “professional,” could financially struggle to cover the costs—which could deter students from choosing to pursue those high-demand careers.”
Who gives a flying fuck what this “man” or this regime says. He’s a traitorous bastard that should be dragged out of office and hung from the neck.
Anyone about to go to college, this classification will determine how much financial aid you’ll be eligible for.
Audiologists? What do they have against people being able to hear? This isn’t a full list, right? Are ENTs not considered professionals too? Tell me dentists are also excluded. Optometrist? Is it really just this one specific doctor? I mean nurses are important, but I’ll admit that society does not respect them, or other non doctor medical professionals, as much. The only word I could think of to describe them in the last sentence was professional.
92% of audiologists are women:
https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/audiologist/demographics/
That is how the 1950s worked. Women were shut out of the workplace in favor of men due to the GI Bill.
It’s how we created a generation of angry, addicted, or tissue paper thin women, back in the day.
Honestly this seems correlative and not causal.
Until you look at all the other occupations. Updated the list.
Yeah because historically this system has been very pro women. Just leave this thread, bud.
Oh they have beef with the deaf and I don’t know why.
Hilariously Republicans are disproportionately more likely to have hearing problems than Democrats thanks to demographics (republicans more often work blue collar jobs which put them in contact with excessive noise far more frequently for example)
Is POTUS on that list?
Of course he thinks educators aren’t a professional degree. Fucker cannot read bigly! Even if we don’t have gud ejukaters nothing bad can happen, it can only good happen. Slavery and bible is frend.
“It has also been reported that engineering, a business master’s, counseling or therapy, and speech pathology will not be considered “professional” either.“
Well, AI can do the job of an engineer - they are just code monkeys. (sarcasm)
But the one I like the best - business masters. Stick it to the CEOs and corporate execs. According to Sundar Pichai, AI can do that job too! Karma.
When will we be able to exit the world of stupid?
Engineer here:
If I could get AI to put up with a client/architect’s bullshit I’d vibe code my way to a life without meetings that could have been emails.
