Like just making all animal products illegal without getting the population on board upfront? Good luck with that. Either such laws would be just ignored or you end up in some kind of revolt.
If more and more people adapt, industry will adapt along. E.g. adding vegan options to menus, producing vegan food for supermarkets, vegan clothes, … In turn, having so many options makes it easier for more people to become vegan with less compromise. Which again increases the customer base for the industry.
No I’m talking about using regulating peoples consumptions rather regulations to reduce the emissions of these polluting companies. I’m talking about regulating the oil and gas sectors and redistributing the handouts they get to green energy sources.
I’m kinda done with individual led movement unless there’s a coordinated campaign and a plan and singular objective.
I’m not shitting on being vegan in anyway. Some of my favorite foods just happen to be vegan. I am already an accidental vegan 95% of the time.
I agree with being the change I wanna see in the world but that’s more of a personal development thing I am kinda jaded with that for actualizing the change I want to see tho. I think we need more than just changing ourselves if we want real visible change atm.
To regulate a corporation, you need very roughly 50% of the population to support the idea. To regulate YOUR BEHAVIOUR, it only takes your own cooperation. 10% of the people regulating their own behaviour is more effective than 10% of people voting to regulate corporations.
Until you can figure out how to regulate corporations, you are morally obliged to stop yourself from fucking murdering vulnerable individuals. I know that’s a bitter pill but please don’t kick and fight. Do it or don’t but stop being an apologist for cruelty and violence.
I agree with the sentiment but do you have any numbers to backup how its impact is better than regulating 10% of the companies? Cause that would actually help me understand the mechanics of that.
We do, it’s called a government, they pass laws to regulate people and corporations, and have enforcers to enforce that regulation. They just need to have some teeth and do their job.
Also you can cut that apologist shit out. It’s boring and it’s ineffective in getting people on your side. And you make your messaging and outreach effective cause guilt and shame are not effective tools to motivate people to change their behavior in the long run.
Also, are you advocating for all vulnerable individuals? Or just animals? What about all the cruelty happening in the global south and western imperialism and hegemony?
Or are you also an apologist for cruelty and violence on vulnerable non-western individuals?
Like two can play that dumb game of who is the virtuest of us all but it’s dumb and ineffective and does more to divide us who have more in common and we lose everything that we collectively want.
You are avoiding the central point. If we can agree that we both have a moral responsibility not to be avoidably cruel and violent to all vulnerable individuals, including cattle, pigs, and chickens, and also including human beings, I’ll address your points. But to me, they seem like a way you are distracting yourself from your basic moral obligations.
The central point I’m arguing about is whats the best way to reduce climate change and its effects and if controlling peoples consumption is the best course of action.
You’re the one that brought in things I wasn’t even talking about.
So please stop being passive aggressive.
And yes honey its imperative we reduce all cruelty we can around us I would extend that to also elected representatives too wouldn’t you agree, and holding them accountable. Does that answer your question?
Also, to what extent do you work to ensure you’re not being cruel to people around? Are you recycling? Are you reusing, are you repairing? Are you pushing for better worker rights in the factories that make your phones? Are you buying more expensive tech that don’t don’t exploit people? (How’s your FairPhone?). Are you pushing for the ending of the exploitation of the global south? Are you pushing for justice for all or just animals? Where is your moral obligation for that?
I answered yours now you answer mine. And please cut the passive aggressiveness if not please don’t bother answering me, cause if you can’t the best thing you can do to promote veganism is not talking.
So many defensive! And yet, you DIDN’T say the thing. You didn’t, you just SAID you said it. That’s not the same.
It’s not imperative that you reduce the number of humans you steal from, but rather that you do not steal to begin with. So it is the same with rape, with murder, etc. If you cannot agree here in this vegan community that there is a moral imperative not merely to reduce but to entirely avoid unnecessary cruelty and violence against all vulnerable individuals, then you have no business here to begin with. Read the rules.
Wouldn’t regulating those companies and enforcing those regulations be a more effective process to the end goal of solving the climate crisis?
Like just making all animal products illegal without getting the population on board upfront? Good luck with that. Either such laws would be just ignored or you end up in some kind of revolt.
If more and more people adapt, industry will adapt along. E.g. adding vegan options to menus, producing vegan food for supermarkets, vegan clothes, … In turn, having so many options makes it easier for more people to become vegan with less compromise. Which again increases the customer base for the industry.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
No I’m talking about using regulating peoples consumptions rather regulations to reduce the emissions of these polluting companies. I’m talking about regulating the oil and gas sectors and redistributing the handouts they get to green energy sources.
I’m kinda done with individual led movement unless there’s a coordinated campaign and a plan and singular objective. I’m not shitting on being vegan in anyway. Some of my favorite foods just happen to be vegan. I am already an accidental vegan 95% of the time.
I agree with being the change I wanna see in the world but that’s more of a personal development thing I am kinda jaded with that for actualizing the change I want to see tho. I think we need more than just changing ourselves if we want real visible change atm.
How would that happen without public support? The public currently pays for these companies to keep doing what they’re doing
An overwhelming amount of the public want green and clean initiatives, why would it be hard to get that public support?
To regulate a corporation, you need very roughly 50% of the population to support the idea. To regulate YOUR BEHAVIOUR, it only takes your own cooperation. 10% of the people regulating their own behaviour is more effective than 10% of people voting to regulate corporations.
Until you can figure out how to regulate corporations, you are morally obliged to stop yourself from fucking murdering vulnerable individuals. I know that’s a bitter pill but please don’t kick and fight. Do it or don’t but stop being an apologist for cruelty and violence.
I agree with the sentiment but do you have any numbers to backup how its impact is better than regulating 10% of the companies? Cause that would actually help me understand the mechanics of that.
We do, it’s called a government, they pass laws to regulate people and corporations, and have enforcers to enforce that regulation. They just need to have some teeth and do their job.
Also you can cut that apologist shit out. It’s boring and it’s ineffective in getting people on your side. And you make your messaging and outreach effective cause guilt and shame are not effective tools to motivate people to change their behavior in the long run.
Also, are you advocating for all vulnerable individuals? Or just animals? What about all the cruelty happening in the global south and western imperialism and hegemony? Or are you also an apologist for cruelty and violence on vulnerable non-western individuals? Like two can play that dumb game of who is the virtuest of us all but it’s dumb and ineffective and does more to divide us who have more in common and we lose everything that we collectively want.
You are avoiding the central point. If we can agree that we both have a moral responsibility not to be avoidably cruel and violent to all vulnerable individuals, including cattle, pigs, and chickens, and also including human beings, I’ll address your points. But to me, they seem like a way you are distracting yourself from your basic moral obligations.
The central point I’m arguing about is whats the best way to reduce climate change and its effects and if controlling peoples consumption is the best course of action. You’re the one that brought in things I wasn’t even talking about. So please stop being passive aggressive.
And yes honey its imperative we reduce all cruelty we can around us I would extend that to also elected representatives too wouldn’t you agree, and holding them accountable. Does that answer your question?
Also, to what extent do you work to ensure you’re not being cruel to people around? Are you recycling? Are you reusing, are you repairing? Are you pushing for better worker rights in the factories that make your phones? Are you buying more expensive tech that don’t don’t exploit people? (How’s your FairPhone?). Are you pushing for the ending of the exploitation of the global south? Are you pushing for justice for all or just animals? Where is your moral obligation for that?
I answered yours now you answer mine. And please cut the passive aggressiveness if not please don’t bother answering me, cause if you can’t the best thing you can do to promote veganism is not talking.
So many defensive! And yet, you DIDN’T say the thing. You didn’t, you just SAID you said it. That’s not the same.
It’s not imperative that you reduce the number of humans you steal from, but rather that you do not steal to begin with. So it is the same with rape, with murder, etc. If you cannot agree here in this vegan community that there is a moral imperative not merely to reduce but to entirely avoid unnecessary cruelty and violence against all vulnerable individuals, then you have no business here to begin with. Read the rules.