Both are BS and ruins lifes, the fuck we comparing about?
Thank you, fuck you OP.
I’m a victim of false accusations.
It cost me over 100k in the custody battle. Every cent was worth it and I now have full custody, but I lost years of a relationship with my child. She tried so hard to ruin my life but after multiple frivolous civil lawsuits and CPS investigations alongside the custody battle the truth emerged.
I didn’t react. I didn’t play into her ploys. I kept a level head. I worked on bettering myself rather than dropping to her level. Despite all that it was the single darkest and hardest times I’ve ever endured. I’m extremely fortunate that I had a good outcome but I’m afraid that isn’t the norm.
False accusations are extremely dangerous.
o7
dint you sue for libel and slander?
Nope.
I’ve consulted with an attorney and they were very confident I would win. The problem is that I would essentially be spending a lot of money for a piece of paper. She already owes me tens of thousands of dollars in attorneys fees that I will likely never see. Any additional judgement would just go on the pile. You can’t get blood from a rock.
I feel it would be better to spend that money giving my kid have a better life.
As I was told yesterday. It’s just a joke man, have a sense of humor. Issa meme.
Not just straight up believing women is misogynistic and makes you a bad man!
Shut up dork
Yeah I don’t understand the message here, that it’s okay to falsely accuse people? Fuck that. That’s just another form of injustice.
The message is that false allegations are extremely few and most of the time won’t “ruin someone’s life” so men pretending it’s an actual problem are just looking for an excuse to be sexist and don’t care about using the misfortune of other men (those whose lives have actually been ruined by false allegations) as scapegoats.
Feels like trying to monopolize victim hood or some weird shit
No… The message you’re supposed to take away is:
A tiny (tiny tiny tiny) proportion of accusations being false doesn’t change the fact that basically every woman on earth is probably going to be sexually harassed at some point, and very many will be sexually assaulted.
They don’t give a fuck about 0.01% of the population. (And they shouldn’t)
“It’s only a small number of people, so we shouldn’t give a shit about them” isn’t my favorite take…
How about “I’m very tired of this tiny number of people being used to defend thousands of violent crimes, and I’m unwilling to lend a great deal of Creedence to random unfounded unspecific calls for us to just think about the poor frat boy who’s life must be ruined, when thousands of women’s lives are ruined every day by sexual violence”
Or, you know, you could just not deliberately interpret what I’ve said in a stupid way
A small number of false accusations is simply NOT the fault or responsibility of women generally.
Ok, thats not a message. What is the suggested plan of action as a result of this “new” information coming to light?
I generally agree but also alternative axes of power and other circumstances can really change the calculus here. It took a lot of real accusations to take weinstein down. It took one false one to kill Emmitt Till. No amount of accusations will do the slightest bit of damage to Trump or to most rich and powerful men.
Drags thinks maybe a lot of people see all false accusation victims as rich and powerful, and forget that false accusation victims can be poor people and minorities.
False accusation victims can even be women! So many of these conversations seem to act like gay sex doesn’t exist.
Both can be true.
False alligations ruins it for everyone. You not only ruin an innocent life, you make it less likely actual victims will be taken serious in the future.
Yeah I think that’s usually more a product of the celebrity status honestly… The rich and powerful are rich and powerful, and we live in a world where that money and power can buy your way out of accountability
False allegations absolutely ruin lives 😅
Which is not to say that sexism doesn’t play a role in how male celebrities get away with abuse, assault, exploitation, etc. It does.
The difference is that the real allegations are against the rich.
Lol
What exactly are those thoughts?
Sounds like the formation of logic error.
Some say car crashes are dangerous. What’s really dangerous is metastasized cancer.
Like Brock Turner, the rapist, who is living in Ohio. He has only served 3 months of his six year sentence.
My step father came clean for raping/grooming his own daughter for 6 years from her age of 9 on. He physically abused the rest of the children in the house, and my personal favorite, locking me in a room for weeks on end, not even allowed use of a toilet. (Took me yesrs to figure out it was because I’d have to walk past his beroom door to get the the bathroom, he didn’t want that, so He kept me locked in my own).
After he dmitted to everything when I finally had evidence to turn him in, ruining multiple children’s lives, he did 8 years in prison. 8. The mother fucker is a homeowner now. His children aren’t even homeowners. We all aged out as wards of the state, left with nothing and no support. Any extended family turned their backs.
Multiple other men of the family were known about, but faced no consequences and are still allowed at Christmas dinner.
I hate it. Yes false allegations are beyond fucked up. But my stepfather should have gotten more than 8 years for ruining the lives of his own children. My grandfather, may he rot in hell, got away with this shit for decades. Uncles who got away with it, cousins. Incestuous pigs.
I heard a similar story from a friend of mine, and I honestly wanted to get a posse together to go fucking kill their abusers because I knew the state would do nothing in comparison to the harm done. They didn’t want that though, so I didn’t, but goddamn the will was very much there.
So, here’s where I am on this.
Both things are true: real reports of doing bad things to others should be taken seriously, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
False reports should not happen.
The problem is that, since it’s possible to falsely report such a crime, anyone, whether guilty or not, can use that fact against their accuser. Additionally, the fact that there’s full assed legal cases where it turns out that the accusations of wrongdoing were indeed false, only serves to lean many people towards doubt.
In addition to all of this, false allegations can absolutely ruin lives. There are people out there on sex offender registries who didn’t do anything wrong, sometimes they lose their children, get driven out of communities, etc… It absolutely can ruin lives.
Unless you have money to burn.
If that’s the case then you can fight and win the lengthy legal battles you need to fight to win the case, or at least run out the finances of the opposition. In either case, because of the above and because there’s no conviction, especially in the case of the rich and/or the famous, people will either completely forget it happened, or they will see that the case is dropped/settled/discontinued or whatever, and think “see, they’re not found guilty, so they must be innocent”
Not realizing that not being found guilty, does not, and should not, imply innocence.
I would add in that it’s hard as an individual man who has not sexually assaulted or raped anybody to not feel somewhat targeted or falsely accused by these things.
I am on the victim’s side.
Rapists and sexual assaulters should suffer every indignity necessary to restore the balance of what they have done, but it’s also understandable that innocent people who get caught up in these shotgun blast social media responses take personal offense at it.
It feels like being accused of something heinous and it’s normal and natural to be indignant when you are falsely accused of a crime.
At the same time, though, for me, a man to get into this conversation as if I were somehow a part of it to begin with also causes me to step on the rightful hurt feelings of people who have experienced sexual assault or some sort of gender-based trauma.
It’s essentially impossible to thread the needle on this.
The problem is not being “indignant when you’re falsely accused of a crime”. The problem is men in the manosphere trying to use the tiny amount of false accusations to justify their sexist views and pretend sexism and rape no longer exist.
Hey, individual man that hasn’t sexually assaulted or raped anybody here;
I do not feel targeted by these kinds of posts. Then again, I’ve also not been accused of sexually assaulting or raping anybody, so it’s hard to understand why I would feel targeted by this post at all.
These posts are clearly neither speaking about me, or to me. I can listen to what women are saying to each other though. Given about half the people I know are women, there’s value in listening.
I guess the difference is that the falsely accused might actually care about what’s being said, and are horrified by the acts they’re accused of.
The guilty only care about the consequences.
Caring about what has been said about me and ruining my life are two very different things.
Why are either cases acceptable?
They aren’t, but we are very publicly watching a certain group get away with it, and everyone else being ignored.
Fuck the rich
idk the comments in this thread feel very male centered tbh.
false accusations count for 2-12% of rpe charges whereas >80% of women who are assaulted don’t even get to report it - so why is there such outrage over the 2-12% of the 20% (ie 0.24% to 2.4% of rpe cases) that unfairly impact men and not the 80% of cases that unfairly impact women?
or do people think r*pe isn’t as damaging as false accusations?
and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to solve both but what do you think should be prioritized?
Because guilty until proven innocent.
Don’t get me wrong, there are huge problems both with (parts of) male culture normalizing sexual harrassment and barriers to reporting of sexual assault, but none of that means that it isn’t expected that some amount of it goes unpunished so we don’t punish anyone innocent. Believe the victim doesn’t mean you instantly condemn the accused, it means you support the victim with their problems and don’t start questioning everything outside of court. (Money/power also probably plays a big role in how many high profile cases that seem pretty clear go unpunished, but I don’t need to explain that to lemmy of all places).
So anything suggesting that less than 100% of accusations leading to convictions leaves a horrible taste.
Because if you falsely accuse me of a crime and im looking at jail time, we have a problem that is going to turn violent very fast. Im a firm believer in persuing rapists. It is in no way paradoxical for me to say that is would be unfair for my innocence should be presumptive.
I can only assume that people advocating for the blanket belief of woman victims must all be women, because how are you possibly going to put yourself in a situation where half of the people around you can simoly say three words and your entire life is over. As it stands now, any woman who walks into my buisness could accuse me of rape and i would lose my family, my job, and likely my house. Literally half of the people i interact with could end my life.
Its funny, theres a parallel with that last sentence that id be lacking to not bring up. But when when its in the context of half of the people you meet being able to physically end your life, thats a problem.
The only thing people are advocating for here is eliminating the double standard. Everyone should be presumed innocent in any type of crime, because at least for me im not serving time for a crime i didnt commit without taking everyone else involved down.
Edit: yeah, so as expected, i had a couple decent discussions with people. As soon as they realised they were wrong, they got offended and started name calling, completely dropping any attempt at pretending they stand for something other than hate. Pretty fuckin cringe
As it stands now, any woman who walks into my buisness could accuse me of rape and i would lose my family, my job, and likely my house.
This is simply not true (not to mention extremely sexist) and it’s exactly what the post is getting at.
What do you mean thats not true? It’s one hundred percent true, because im not rich and powerful. Im a regular guy and have no protections against that sort of manipulation whatsoever. And thats exactly what everyone in this thread has been getting at.
Also holy fuck just pointing out that i have no protections against that is sexist? Bro it is literally sexist for me to claim innocence. Wow.
No, I’m calling you sexist because you are sexist.
Name calling. Cool. Fuck you.
I have been a supporter of women, and of both genders, likely longer than you have been alive. I will continue to support women with or without you, but quite frankly we dont need your bullshit polluting the message. Its shit like your “all men are evil” bullshit that is the reason for so many of our current issues.
That’s a lot of words to say “I have internalized my sexism”.
And thats a lot of words to say that you’re a troll, thats the nature of words.
Also illiterate. You literally havent read anything ive said. I’m done here, i don’t engage with bigots.
Wow so tuff, this guy absolutely pulverized that strawman
The point is that unjustly accused people have the right to violent uphold their rights against persecution. If you accept false accusations as an eventuality, you accept violent retribution as well.
Feel free to explain why correctly accused people wouldn’t do the same thing.
Also feel free to explain how due process only applies to other people because you’re allowed to be violent if the law even thinks of responding to an accusation, false or otherwise, like it would for any other crime.
It applies differently because reasonable people presume innocence and will therefore support those accised without evidence.
LMAO
Love the casual implication that women can’t possibly be asking for that evidence to taken and treated seriously.
Not quite, in fact you just revealed your issue. I never stated that, youre making your own assumptions, and they are quite revealing. If they have any form of evidence, then they’re not unjustly accusing. They’re offered the same protections as a reasonable person, because they are. Unlike you.
Idk isn’t people getting disgusted and defensive when put in the same group as rapists and pedophiles a good thing?
Imagine the alternative where men are just fine with it or even start making jokes about it like the male communities in other apps. I would just abandon lemmy.
The manosphere hate to acknowledge women as victims, and love to identify as one themselves
No one in here has in any way lessened the victimhood of woman in any way that ive seen, they’ve literally just stated that innocence until proven guilty should remain in effect. Genders aside entirely, do you not see the issue with allowing someone to have the ability to end someones career, family, and and social standing with a simple accusation? Not even in the cintext of anything sexual, that is a wild abuse of power to have, no?
Being falsely accused of a crime can ruin your life.
why is rape disproportionately mentioned in this context?
Because if I get drunk and shoot a drunk girl, there won’t be anyone asking if perhaps the girl actually wanted to get shot.
Rape culture is pervasive in the modern world, but most don’t seem willing to have such a dark truth.
