I’m “collectivize the farms and factories” left, and even I recognize that it’s a hell of a lot easier to get to the second state from the first state than from where we are now.
While that’s true, I think by positioning ourselves at the 2nd state, it allows us to “negotiate” our way down to getting the 1st state. Its kind of like haggling. If you start at the more extreme position, opposition will (in an ideal scenario) try to find a middle ground to agree on. And that middle ground would look like the 1st state. It’s a way of combatting the ratcheting effect.
I do wish the left broadly could unify under the idea that we need to make incremental progress.
A lot of people on this very site think there’s going to be a glorious people’s revolution any day now. I could spend hours describing how unrealistic that fantasy is, but I think more people rather live with their indulgent fantasies than go out and plant trees that they will never sit in the shade of.
The label we’re gathering under is progressives, it’s mostly leftists but you leave the praxis at home and recognize that no one is going to read a pamphlet
Turns out, when you have good messaging, most people are on board with the practical changes we could make today. Mumdani is a rockstar at it
The Zohran Mamdani campaign has peeled the curtain back from American politics and exposed how much of it has been kayfabe all along. And the people writing the scripts are not happy about it.
I hope it continues, while I know he will win, I hope he also succeeds against the ringmasters and production executives who have manufactured our reality.
I don’t think it’s kayfabe so much as a bunch of consultant brained fucktards desperately grasping at power, but also having no idea why they’re doing this anymore
But Mumdani has shown us that the people really are desperate for leftism. They want what we want, they just need crisp and simple messaging
Oh man do I ever with you. I’m absolutely an idealist, I agree with the OP’s sentiment. But I will absolutely support anyone with any ideology that gets us closer. Small steps are easier to take, this bullshit that everyone thinks we need the perfect candidate with the one weird trick.
See what that got us. I have no goddamned idea where to go from here. I’ll support any ham sandwich that drags us in the right direction.
The problem with the previous attempts was prioritizing ideology over real life problems. Doesn’t sound like socialists are capable of understanding why that’s a problem because they believe that conforming to ideology will magically solve all problems. Just like they believed that in the Soviet Union… which is what caused the famines.
Uh…I don’t think you’ve done a check up on where the centrists are lately. Centrists split the difference between the parties, they’re over there going “well, healthcare is good, but who’s going to pay for it? I don’t like what ice is doing, they’re hurting too many people while they look for the criminals”
The abundance liberals also claim they want to do the first one, but they seem like a fresh wave of neolibs
It seems like progrssives are the only ones serious about the first one, and they’re largely on board with the second one
I think you’ve still identified that the meme is trying to get at “there’s ‘left’, and there’s LEFT.” The U.S. public suffers from a dearth of broadly-accepted terminology for labeling these groups, so some group will always misunderstand exactly who you mean.
I’m “collectivize the farms and factories” left, and even I recognize that it’s a hell of a lot easier to get to the second state from the first state than from where we are now.
While that’s true, I think by positioning ourselves at the 2nd state, it allows us to “negotiate” our way down to getting the 1st state. Its kind of like haggling. If you start at the more extreme position, opposition will (in an ideal scenario) try to find a middle ground to agree on. And that middle ground would look like the 1st state. It’s a way of combatting the ratcheting effect.
I do wish the left broadly could unify under the idea that we need to make incremental progress.
A lot of people on this very site think there’s going to be a glorious people’s revolution any day now. I could spend hours describing how unrealistic that fantasy is, but I think more people rather live with their indulgent fantasies than go out and plant trees that they will never sit in the shade of.
The label we’re gathering under is progressives, it’s mostly leftists but you leave the praxis at home and recognize that no one is going to read a pamphlet
Turns out, when you have good messaging, most people are on board with the practical changes we could make today. Mumdani is a rockstar at it
The Zohran Mamdani campaign has peeled the curtain back from American politics and exposed how much of it has been kayfabe all along. And the people writing the scripts are not happy about it.
I hope it continues, while I know he will win, I hope he also succeeds against the ringmasters and production executives who have manufactured our reality.
I don’t think it’s kayfabe so much as a bunch of consultant brained fucktards desperately grasping at power, but also having no idea why they’re doing this anymore
But Mumdani has shown us that the people really are desperate for leftism. They want what we want, they just need crisp and simple messaging
I forget about this colloquialism, but find it a good description for how I try to be day to day
Oh man do I ever with you. I’m absolutely an idealist, I agree with the OP’s sentiment. But I will absolutely support anyone with any ideology that gets us closer. Small steps are easier to take, this bullshit that everyone thinks we need the perfect candidate with the one weird trick.
See what that got us. I have no goddamned idea where to go from here. I’ll support any ham sandwich that drags us in the right direction.
Are you aware of how many people starved when farms were collectivized in the Soviet Union?
It is possible to improve on the methods and priorities of previous attempts.
The problem with the previous attempts was prioritizing ideology over real life problems. Doesn’t sound like socialists are capable of understanding why that’s a problem because they believe that conforming to ideology will magically solve all problems. Just like they believed that in the Soviet Union… which is what caused the famines.
Well the only people who are talking about stopping at one state are the centrists arguing we must ‘compromise’ and accept the top only.
I fully support going to both…
Uh…I don’t think you’ve done a check up on where the centrists are lately. Centrists split the difference between the parties, they’re over there going “well, healthcare is good, but who’s going to pay for it? I don’t like what ice is doing, they’re hurting too many people while they look for the criminals”
The abundance liberals also claim they want to do the first one, but they seem like a fresh wave of neolibs
It seems like progrssives are the only ones serious about the first one, and they’re largely on board with the second one
I think you’ve still identified that the meme is trying to get at “there’s ‘left’, and there’s LEFT.” The U.S. public suffers from a dearth of broadly-accepted terminology for labeling these groups, so some group will always misunderstand exactly who you mean.