Edit: Also, as well, selective. Give stats for the Baltics, Poland, Czechia, etc… ex-yu is irrelevant, as it’s about Russia, not communism. No offense, but it’s like you’re literally Mel Gibson in the meme. :P
It’s very clearly about communism though. The claim here is that the Soviets oppressed Eastern Europe in the socialist bloc. Yet, when we look at the economies of the post Soviet countries, things got worse across the board. Yes, there are a few selective examples you can pull up that didn’t completely melt down, but on the whole what I posted is very much representative.
Yet, when we look at the economies of the post Soviet countries, things got worse across the board.
No, they did not. Haven’t noticed any tanks driving over striking workers lately.
Economically, for a simple comparison - in Poland it was a problem to get toilet paper and bread when I was a kid (80’s). At the moment, even with some 2 million refugees it’s not that hard to get a job and fulfil your basic needs. Not at a level we would deem acceptable, but still it’s possible to easily get basic necessities and luxuries like toilet paper, so cut your western bullshit.
Also Russia is not a communist country. I would argue it never was, but it is nowhere near now. I wouldn’t expect any arguments can reach you, so if you never been there - go on a trip and maybe you’ll sober out.
Yes, they did. Statistically speaking, quality of life dropped in pretty much all the former republics. There is increase in crime, there is now pervasive homelessness, regression in human rights and so on. Particularly in Poland where women’s rights regressed to medieval levels, and fascists roam freely.
Also, nobody is claiming Russia today is a communist country. Meanwhile, I grew up in USSR and I’ve met lots of people like you who ignore all the horrors of post soviet times cause they got theirs and fuck everyone else.
You do understand any and every statistic in USSR/boarder soviet block was fake? You do understand I live here? The audacity and entitlement of telling people what they live in is impressive. Cant be further from defending the current capitalist regime, but your propaganda bullshit is just absurd.
You understand I also lived there and that plenty of people disagree with you? The only one doing propaganda bullshit here is you by not being able to even acknowledge the basic facts of the situation.
Show me one case of capitalist from post-soviet countries firing tanks at striking workers over the last 30 years? You seem to be living a nostalgic illusion, of a world that never was. The state of the glorious socialist economy made it so, that any language and ideology of the left is received as downright offensive in at least half of these countries. Ask any leftists actually living here, all the populations went far to the right. Also confusing Serbian imperialist nationalism with actual support of socialism is hilarious.
All you’re doing is making a straw man here. Nowhere have I claimed that USSR was some sort of an utopia. What I said was that it did a much better job ensuring that everyone had their needs met.
However, I’ll show you every capitalist post-soviet country where people live on the streets, and the elderly scavenge for sustenance in the trash. And now that the economic situation is dire, only an utter idiot would think that these capitalist hellholes aren’t going to use violence to keep workers in line.
The populations in these countries didn’t just go to the right all on their own. This was intentionally cultivated by your friends from the west.
I also love how you keep contradicting yourself here. First you praise Poland after transition to capitalism, and in the next breath you tell me that you don’t actually support the new capitalist system after being called out on the horrors it created. Total clown shit here.
You blast with pro-USSR stats in a thread joking about how the western leftists think Russia is a good thing.
You have little to no understanding of what the people here are going through and went through during the communist regimes. Yeah, Hungarians might say their quasi-fascist kleptocratic state is worse than communism. Not exactly a tight competition here. But to you understand complaining is a cultural thing in the region, and we’ll always say it was better before? For Hungarians, Czechs and Polish that also meant popular uprisings quelled with tanks, and currently means voting for far-right wing strongmen rather than anything remotely socialistic. They same ones which create a russia-supported oligarchic systems within their countries branding it as a nationalist turn from EU.
However, I’ll show you every capitalist post-soviet country where people live on the streets,
Ok, let’s play this. Since we’re talking in the context of Ukraine - show me a capitalist country in which multiple millions died oh hunger in the last century? Have some Holodomor for comparison.
Been to China, cant see much people living on the streets, that’s a fact. By the working conditions in normal factories, and the fear of people to discuss anything outside of the party line it’s pretty clear anyone sticking out is in a forced labour camp tho, so if that’s your ideal than yeah, you’re absolutely right, everyone has a job, no one’s on the street.
I happen to be a person who proffered to live on the street over working, and will always prefer a country where I could do this, over being forced to a labour camp, which in Poland strikes a rather simple historical comparison.
only an utter idiot would think that these capitalist hellholes aren’t going to use violence to keep workers in line
The only sentence that came out of you that I could agree with. The problem is - at least in Europe they didn’t have to go that far. The communist regimes did, on the other hand, and did it against striking workers nonetheless.
The populations in these countries didn’t just go to the right all on their own. This was intentionally cultivated
You’ve got little idea of local politics of multiple countries in question, serving a extreamly broad statement USA is an evil imperialist. It is. No either prove they assisted in the anti-communist sentiment in one of the countries in question or I’ll also start linking random 10-pagers claiming they are arguments.
We had anti-communist partisans going on just after the war, even after majority of the (also anti-communist, even if socialist) underground laid their weapons after 6 years of brutal fight that literally levelled our capital to the ground. Side fact; the partisans who laid there weapons were latter tortured and in their thousands - shot.
by your friends from the west.
you’re not my friend.
First you praise Poland after transition to capitalism, and in the next breath you tell me that you don’t actually support the new capitalist system after being called out on the horrors it created.
You meant this:
At the moment, (…) it’s not that hard to get a job and fulfil your basic needs. Not at a level we would deem acceptable, but still it’s possible to easily get basic necessities and luxuries like toilet paper (…)
Or what, cuz nowhere I got remotely close to what you’re describing. You got from not being able to support your flawed point to outright lying in a lame attempt to disprove mine.
Meme: Russia, not communism.
Yogthos: Communism.
Edit: Also, as well, selective. Give stats for the Baltics, Poland, Czechia, etc… ex-yu is irrelevant, as it’s about Russia, not communism. No offense, but it’s like you’re literally Mel Gibson in the meme. :P
It’s very clearly about communism though. The claim here is that the Soviets oppressed Eastern Europe in the socialist bloc. Yet, when we look at the economies of the post Soviet countries, things got worse across the board. Yes, there are a few selective examples you can pull up that didn’t completely melt down, but on the whole what I posted is very much representative.
No, they did not. Haven’t noticed any tanks driving over striking workers lately.
Economically, for a simple comparison - in Poland it was a problem to get toilet paper and bread when I was a kid (80’s). At the moment, even with some 2 million refugees it’s not that hard to get a job and fulfil your basic needs. Not at a level we would deem acceptable, but still it’s possible to easily get basic necessities and luxuries like toilet paper, so cut your western bullshit.
Also Russia is not a communist country. I would argue it never was, but it is nowhere near now. I wouldn’t expect any arguments can reach you, so if you never been there - go on a trip and maybe you’ll sober out.
Yes, they did. Statistically speaking, quality of life dropped in pretty much all the former republics. There is increase in crime, there is now pervasive homelessness, regression in human rights and so on. Particularly in Poland where women’s rights regressed to medieval levels, and fascists roam freely.
Also, nobody is claiming Russia today is a communist country. Meanwhile, I grew up in USSR and I’ve met lots of people like you who ignore all the horrors of post soviet times cause they got theirs and fuck everyone else.
You do understand any and every statistic in USSR/boarder soviet block was fake? You do understand I live here? The audacity and entitlement of telling people what they live in is impressive. Cant be further from defending the current capitalist regime, but your propaganda bullshit is just absurd.
You understand I also lived there and that plenty of people disagree with you? The only one doing propaganda bullshit here is you by not being able to even acknowledge the basic facts of the situation.
Show me one case of capitalist from post-soviet countries firing tanks at striking workers over the last 30 years? You seem to be living a nostalgic illusion, of a world that never was. The state of the glorious socialist economy made it so, that any language and ideology of the left is received as downright offensive in at least half of these countries. Ask any leftists actually living here, all the populations went far to the right. Also confusing Serbian imperialist nationalism with actual support of socialism is hilarious.
All you’re doing is making a straw man here. Nowhere have I claimed that USSR was some sort of an utopia. What I said was that it did a much better job ensuring that everyone had their needs met.
However, I’ll show you every capitalist post-soviet country where people live on the streets, and the elderly scavenge for sustenance in the trash. And now that the economic situation is dire, only an utter idiot would think that these capitalist hellholes aren’t going to use violence to keep workers in line.
The populations in these countries didn’t just go to the right all on their own. This was intentionally cultivated by your friends from the west.
I also love how you keep contradicting yourself here. First you praise Poland after transition to capitalism, and in the next breath you tell me that you don’t actually support the new capitalist system after being called out on the horrors it created. Total clown shit here.
You blast with pro-USSR stats in a thread joking about how the western leftists think Russia is a good thing. You have little to no understanding of what the people here are going through and went through during the communist regimes. Yeah, Hungarians might say their quasi-fascist kleptocratic state is worse than communism. Not exactly a tight competition here. But to you understand complaining is a cultural thing in the region, and we’ll always say it was better before? For Hungarians, Czechs and Polish that also meant popular uprisings quelled with tanks, and currently means voting for far-right wing strongmen rather than anything remotely socialistic. They same ones which create a russia-supported oligarchic systems within their countries branding it as a nationalist turn from EU.
Ok, let’s play this. Since we’re talking in the context of Ukraine - show me a capitalist country in which multiple millions died oh hunger in the last century? Have some Holodomor for comparison.
Been to China, cant see much people living on the streets, that’s a fact. By the working conditions in normal factories, and the fear of people to discuss anything outside of the party line it’s pretty clear anyone sticking out is in a forced labour camp tho, so if that’s your ideal than yeah, you’re absolutely right, everyone has a job, no one’s on the street.
I happen to be a person who proffered to live on the street over working, and will always prefer a country where I could do this, over being forced to a labour camp, which in Poland strikes a rather simple historical comparison.
The only sentence that came out of you that I could agree with. The problem is - at least in Europe they didn’t have to go that far. The communist regimes did, on the other hand, and did it against striking workers nonetheless.
You’ve got little idea of local politics of multiple countries in question, serving a extreamly broad statement USA is an evil imperialist. It is. No either prove they assisted in the anti-communist sentiment in one of the countries in question or I’ll also start linking random 10-pagers claiming they are arguments.
We had anti-communist partisans going on just after the war, even after majority of the (also anti-communist, even if socialist) underground laid their weapons after 6 years of brutal fight that literally levelled our capital to the ground. Side fact; the partisans who laid there weapons were latter tortured and in their thousands - shot.
you’re not my friend.
You meant this:
Or what, cuz nowhere I got remotely close to what you’re describing. You got from not being able to support your flawed point to outright lying in a lame attempt to disprove mine.