What specifically do you not like about it. And I don’t just mean “it’s too hard”, what specifically is hard?

I feel like most people would like mathematics, but the education system failed them, teaching in a way that’s not enjoyable.

  • pishadoot@sh.itjust.works
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    7 days ago

    Most people don’t just like to sit there and solve puzzles. Math is systems of interleaved puzzles that grow in complexity.

    If you enjoy that, you like (pure) math. Most people don’t - I don’t think “most” would if the education system didn’t fail them, the same way that most people don’t like sudoku puzzles.

    Personally I don’t like pure math, I like applied math. Physics. I like seeing the numbers that represent the forces I can see in the real world. I sort of enjoy geometry for the same reason, but less so. I enjoy stats and probability theory to a degree.

    But yeah, most people don’t enjoy just sitting there and doing puzzles. There’s probably a good number of people who would enjoy math if they had a different educational experience, but a ton of people just don’t like doing math.

  • Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    It’s really hard to understand some of it. It might’ve been fun if I had good math instructors for every class at every step of the way from algebra to ordinary differentials. Because so much material builds on what was taught before, it gradually got more and more incomprehensible until I gave up trying to understand it halfway through cal 2 and just memorized the important parts enough to pass. Besides that, I rarely see applications in day to day life past basic algebra. It’s not like I’m gonna take careful measurements of how fast my car’s going to derive my exact fuel consumption rate. It’s easier to just go off the odometer and gas pump readings between fills for instance.

  • lerba@piefed.social
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    7 days ago

    I have excellent long-term memory but have always struggled with keeping strings of numbers in my short-term memory. You can imagine the struggle when trying to solve a function is like trying to make a bed with a slightly too small fitted sheet

  • bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
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    7 days ago

    I dont understand it. Most I can do is multiply. Can’t do long division on paper.

    Never got it in school, failed algebra 101 3 times. Only passed by hours of tutoring every day.

    I enjoy applied math if its something like calculating tolerances while building an engine, but I cant figure out an algebra equation or do large multiplication stuff at all.

    I dont know what multiplication tables are either. I just know how to count up so if I need 8x3 I count 8,16, ah, 24!

    Also diagnosed adhd and likely autism doesn’t help.

    I wish I liked math, because I love computers and mechanical engineering etc but its always held me back. Luckily my job now requires applied thinking not really math so I get to mostly do interesting stuff without complex math.

  • flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz
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    8 days ago

    Someone who used to dislike it in school and university here.

    Having to cram a lot of information and formulas, and then reproduce it without error for an exam. None of it made sense, and I wasn’t even aware it was possible for it to make sense.

    Only after many years did I understand it’s all connected, there’s a logic to it. It’s possible to understand rather than just blindly learn.

    Btw the notation really doesn’t help.

    • wewbull@feddit.uk
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      8 days ago

      I think this is true for lots of people. I also think there’s a bunch of us that have never had that feeling of it being a memorisation task.

      In fact, the reason I liked maths and science was because it wasn’t memorisation. Unlike languages (for example) you could always work out the bit you forgot, and didn’t need to depend on some made-up aide-memoire that only applied 75% of the time and remember what 25% it didn’t apply to.

      All I can think is that some early teacher failed you, and didn’t lay out how the foundations worked.

      • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        if the foundations of mathematics are dependent on a single early teacher… that’s a serious dependency for mathematics then.

    • confuser@lemmy.zip
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      7 days ago

      I think the issue is that mathematical logical thinking is what needs to be taught, like that everything can be described as equations.

      The teachers put too much emphasis on formulas and notation and equations and so we are led to believe that math is only about rote memory of math grammar and so it never makes sense.

    • DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works
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      8 days ago

      Its so easy:

      b square plus and minus the the square root of negative b minus 2ac all over 2a???

      Edit: fuck, i forgor💀

      • anonymouse2@sh.itjust.works
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        8 days ago

        Swap neg b with b square and you got it. I have recently used the quadratic equation for what I hope is the last time ever.

        Edit: Oh, and I think it’s 4ac.

  • Magpie@mander.xyz
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    8 days ago

    I have a learning disability which affects my ability to understand math (discalculia). Its really hard to explain how it feels, but any time I do simple math in my head I can’t keep track of the numbers and they are start to blink in and out. Its like having short term memory loss for the duration of the equation? Not sure if that makes sense. I can absolutely do the math, but its an uphill battle and I end up having a lot of anxiety because I think people will judge me for how long it takes. I have a lot of trouble with addition, subtraction and multiplication so, really, the very basics.

    I think if I didn’t have this condition I would probably really enjoy math. I didn’t know about this when I was in high school so I don’t know if they could have even helped me. I also had a math teacher for a couple of years who would literally throw a chair at the wall if you did something wrong or he thought you were playing stupid. So that certainly did not help the situation.

    • Usernameblankface@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      The numbers start blinking in and out, yes! This is why I have to write out the numbers on the most simple stuff, and write a d rewrite complex problems to keep track of how the numbers change and which ones go where.

  • SmokeyDope@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I enjoy the concepts and structures of mathematics. Fractal geometry, holomorphic dynamics, computational theory, uncertainty principles and all that are fascinating as hell. Discrete systems dancing with continuous integrals at process limits.

    I DO NOT ENJOY working with math. Specifically I cant read complex equations. I don’t have an attention disorder but I swear the moment I try reading anything that looks like this I get overloaded and nope out. If it aint highschool algebra with PEMDAS I cant do it. If you put a bullet to my head and pinned my survival on properly solving a quadratic equation I’d just tell you to shoot me.

    The concepts are cool once you can get past the notation to understand the ontology of whats trying to be conveyed. The actual expanded out notations and trying to do work with them is a fuckin nightmare.

    Also since im ranting can I just say, across STEM the biggest problem is the naming convention. Math and science would be at least 60% more accessable if we went back and renamed all theorems, hypothesis, proofs, to be what they are about instead of just shouting out the guy who discovered it. “eulers identity” doesnt mean a fucking thing. Neither does scrodingers equations or the riemann hypothesis or turing machines. THESE ARE NOT ACCESSABLE NAMES THEY CONVEY NOTHING INTRINSICALLY BESIDES SOME DEAD GUYS LAST NAME. GET SOME PROGRAMMERS WHO KNOW HOW TO ACTUALLY DECLARE HUMAN READABLE STRINGS FOR YOUR FUCKING ABSTRACTION OBJECTS.

    • ProperlyProperTea@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      This is basically how I feel. I love physics…concepts. Relativity is really cool. Optics is really cool. Magnetism is really cool.

      Sitting down to calculate the force a charged particle feels in an electric field if fired at a certain velocity? That sucks. It’s so easy to make a mistake and a chore to do.

      Also, to your point about naming conventions, it’s an unfortunate side effect of always building on top of existing work. Why is integral symbol the way it is? Isaac Newton wrote an S next to his calculations (I think for “sum”, but I could be wrong). A lot of math is really old. What was a good way of keeping track of math concepts 300 years ago? Idk, but that Riemann guy came up with a way to add an infinite amount of numbers.

      Sure we could rename everything, but then all the textbooks written beforehand would be really confusing.

  • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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    8 days ago

    I don’t think this applies to everyone but the major difference I have found between people who enjoy math and those who don’t lies primarily in how they do math. People who don’t like math usually learn and reproduce the subject by memorizing formulas and using them as tools to solve problems where as people who enjoy mathematics typically seek to understand why those formulas work and often rederive them. For the former who didn’t take the time or was not interested in learning the laws that govern math, the subject is a slog of searching your tool box for the correct tool. Sometimes numerous times until you find the one that works, though often not knowing why it worked and the others did not. For the latter it is like a language they have become fluent in. The indentification of which tool they need has become second nature and they will sometimes design tools specific to their needs.

    Edit: I saw all this from my experience as a physics major for most of my undergrad. This primarily comes from what I observed in other physics majors so this could be somewhat skewed info. I’m certain there are people who understood math from the roots up and still hated it. Puzzles like that aren’t for everyone and I certainly got tired of it by the time I reached up level math.

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
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      8 days ago

      People who don’t like math usually learn and reproduce the subject by memorizing formulas and using them as tools to solve problems where as people who enjoy mathematics typically seek to understand why those formulas work and often rederive them.

      Literally why I hate math. There was no explanation in highschool, it was just here’s a formula bv+yq-72(7ph+u/65) use it when you see pineapples.

      …how the fuck am I supposed to just remember that? I need to understand how something works or my brain simply will not retain it. The response I always got was “proofs are too complex, you’ll learn that in college.” …ok but that doesn’t help my D+ ass now and just made me think I’m terrible at math, completely avoiding anything science related even though I loved pretty much most fields of science.

      • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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        8 days ago

        I got super lucky in highschool. Algebra came super easy to me as I enjoyed the subject and my ADHD brain wanted to understand it but the people teaching the subject were like yours. Even if that weren’t the case many people can get through algebra sufficiently just memorizing formulas. Calculus was where the line was drawn between the those who memorized processes and those who understood the language. I really lucked out with my calculus teacher. He was one of those people who you could tell really enjoyed teaching because he loved watching his students grow. When he worked one on one with you his favorite thing was when you very obviously had a sudden moment of realization/understanding. He’d get excited and celebrate with you because you just grasped the why beyond the how. To this day I have not had such a positive experience with education. Teachers like that are a fucking gem and I wish there were more of them. He is almost the sole reason I am pursuing a career in education. The fact that math, taught in the manner he taugh it, isn’t the norm is fucking tragedy.

      • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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        8 days ago

        Anyone who focuses on proofs really. Pythagoras is a good historical example even if he could be unconventional by modern standards. Check out 3blue1brown on youtube tbh, he isn’t doing formal proofs but he’s great at explaining a visualizing why math works how it does.

  • stinerman@midwest.social
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    8 days ago

    The question is not aimed at me because I do like math (I have a degree in it), but I did want to comment on a possible reason.

    One thing I heard in my math classes (shared with math education students) is that children are introduced to math by primary school teachers who are disproportionately skilled in language and arts rather than math and science. They impart their dislike of mathematics to their students.

  • otacon239@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I really enjoy what math does. When it applies to what I’m doing, I don’t mind even learning a new method. What killed me in school was math for math’s sake. They never explained where one might use the math. Trig was my favorite because almost every problem has a real-world use case that’s immediately apparent.

  • Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk
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    8 days ago

    Probably all about the teaching. I understood maths up until we hit differential calculus. Then I didn’t understand what we were doing to numbers or why. And my teacher was incapable of explaining it.

  • Usernameblankface@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I find it hard to keep numbers in mind, and memorizing huge lists of numbers doesn’t work well for me. I need a purpose, a story, a reason behind the numbers. I’m the weirdo who loves story problems.

    I don’t like busywork, running meaningless numbers for the sake of doing it is dull to me.

  • AFK BRB Chocolate (CA version)@lemmy.ca
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    8 days ago

    This comes off like a person who has no empathy, or who assumes everyone else thinks like they do. When I was in college, I tutored math to middle school kids, and I can say with certainty that some people’s brains take to it more naturally than others. You can be very smart and still struggle with math.

    And putting that aside, “enjoyment” is inherently subjective. It’s like saying most people would enjoy liver and onions if they had it cooked right. No, some people will and some people won’t. It’s okay - people are a diverse lot and it’s fine if some people don’t like what you like.

  • potoo22@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I’m good at math, but I dislike it for the same reason I dislike cutting the grass: it’s work and my ADHD brain doesn’t get reward dopamine for accomplishing work.

    • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
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      8 days ago

      This. I used to bloody love maths. It used to be like a puzzle that felt good when it all fit together neatly. Nowadays its just work. When I see a bunch of numbers that need worked my body physically aches with frustration.

      I still love when numbers do stuff, but I need them spooned to me like a semi-literate milk-fed gimp.