I’ve been thinking about this sense of being different from the average person. As if there’s this majority of people who, broadly speaking, form a fairly homogenous group - people who fit together naturally and for whom society is basically designed. And then there’s this smaller group who just don’t quite fit in. It’s like there’s this game we’re all supposed to be playing together, but some of us either aren’t that into the game or want to play it differently.
It’s easy to slip into that “everyone else is an NPC” kind of thinking, but maybe it’s just the result of comparing our inner experience to our external observations of others. It’s tempting to assume that someone with a spouse, a corporate job, a mortgage, a station wagon, a dog, and two and half kids is just living out a script - doing what’s expected - rather than living intentionally. But who’s to say they’re not struggling with the same existential questions as I am?
I think about my parents - about as normal as people get - and I recently asked if they feel normal. They said yes. When I mentioned my lifelong sense of being an outsider, my mom told me that she and my sister had once talked about something I’d done, and my sister had commented, “He’s so weird.” Strangely, that was comforting to hear. It’s not that I see being different as a bad thing - it’s more about that unanswerable question of whether I truly am different, or if I’ve just always felt that way.
Oh, man, my parents were militant hippies and rights activists. To me being a subversive leftist is normal. Arm and train the underprivileged and the proletariat in general. Protest, armed. Punch Nazis.
10k feet up? Normal 5k feet up? Pretty normal 1k feet? I stick out 100 feet? I’m my own crew yo
I’ve recently come to the conclusion that those who feel that they easily fit in to all societal expectations have lost touch with their authenticity. The Jungian persona might be the best source for an in-depth analysis of this.
Everyone is weird in some way. Some of us try to hide it, some don’t. How much you do is a choice (but also heavily influenced by how conformist your communities are).
I remember learning a statistic in the early aughts that only 17% of US households were married man/woman married with child(ren), when so much of media and societal representation and expectations was based around norms from the 1950s or earlier. Society changed for real in the US mid century, and continued to evolve; single parents, adults with no children, skipping marriage, same sex and/or other sex/gender/orientation households, but the christian-facist propaganda kept up.
Just remember, something as basic as “what is a home or family group”, the “standard” or “normal” is less than 1 out of 5. It’s actually the exception! This applies elsewhere.
Don’t discount imposter syndrome, it’s powerful. We’re all, mostly, normal.
This one
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Let’s go one level deeper - people who say “I feel normal” do it because saying it is part of that script of life you’re talking about, not because they believe it deep down.
Basically internal life of almost any person other than yourself is impossible to know. And you can’t trust what they say, because they might be lying even to themselves or just don’t want to reveal deep inner thoughts to anyone.
One of the few ways into private thoughts is to get someone blackout drunk. But even that is not 100% reliable.
people who say “I feel normal” do it because saying it is part of that script of life you’re talking about, not because they believe it deep down.
Basically internal life of almost any person other than yourself is impossible to know.
- People do X for Y reason not for actual belief in X!
- But it’s impossible to know people!
These opinions do not reconcile. Either you “know” people (probably because you project your beliefs onto them), or it’s impossible to really know what is in other people for sure and this is all your brand of certified speculation.
I’m gonna say I bet there are people who say they feel normal and actually believe it, rather than buying whatever this is.
Yeah, I think the answer it that question tell you more about the person’s attitude to normalcy / weirdness than how normal they are. Like you say, lots of people want to be normal (or don’t want to be seen as weird) so will present themselves that way, and keep all their divergence secret because it’s shameful.
But there’s also those people who genuinely don’t realise that people are different from them, or what most people are like. They belive that however they are is ‘normal’ and everyone who disagrees is wrong, even if they’re in the minority.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle
Greetings from Dunning & Kruger
I wasn’t trying to sound smarter than anyone - just sharing a feeling of not fitting in. It’s fine if you disagree, but response like that feels needlessly mean.
No, no, do not take my answer personally, please. I pointed to Dunning & Kruger because it was them who have researched and answered your general question, what everyone feels etc.
Got it - thanks for clarifying. I read your comment as sarcastic at first, so I appreciate you explaining.
I’ve always felt different, an outsider, weird. Clumsy too. My sister had adhd diagnosed decades before it was called that. So I was aware of that but it never fit me.
At an advanced adult age I am finding out to very likely be an Autist. Never thought of that because I really don’t fit the cliché. Still, it fit and it’s like all my life is suddenly validated.
I was told at a young age that autistic people by definition don’t have empathy (I know how wrong that is now), which was an insurmountable barrier to realizing that I’m autistic. I have a huge number of absolutely textbook symptoms, but I couldn’t ever get past the empathy issue, because it’s an emotion I feel so strongly. I also have ADHD, so I ascribed all of the sensory issues, clumsiness, and social anxiety/difficulties to that and considered my echolalia, fixation with numbers/words, and the fact that I didn’t begin to speak at until I came out with full sentences at nearly four to be quirks. I thought getting frustrated to the point of tears over silly things because I couldn’t properly communicate my distress to others just meant I was immature.
I read about the double empathy problem on the same day that I had essentially interpreted for an autistic customer being served at our coffee shop by my coworker (the customer needed more time to decide what she wanted, but my coworker kept asking her if she wanted anything else, and she appeared to be too overwhelmed with the questions to ask for a moment). Then I realized that most of my favorite customers who don’t tip, but whom I just vibe with, were autistic and everything else just kind of clicked.
As a note, I haven’t been diagnosed, but I did have a therapist who thought I was autistic and referred me for a diagnosis multiple times, I just really didn’t think it was likely at the time, so I never made an appointment. I’m glad for that now and I’m not going to look for a diagnosis until I’m no longer an American citizen, but I start that process next month.
Good on you!
Yeah, empathy lol, it just runs rampant. It’s like that diagram that should be a circle towards the outside being balanced but in my case is a total spiky ball.
Things I “should” empathize do nothing (‘how can you be so insensitive’) and other things totally tear me up. Why? Sometimes no idea. Being overwhelmed by everything is my standard.
By now from what I read the empathy thing is just about the appearance, which goes with pretty much anything else. A neurotypical would think and conclude so, on the surface.
I’ve also never had reactions to pain like other people. And thats a major social issue, since people don’t react then, too. The logic is it can’t be bad if you’re not reacting like it.
What I found enlightening for me, since I am likely a highly masking individual:
Damn, that hit the mark. The most common adjective my parents used to describe me as a child in comparison to other children (so not things that they would say about all children they loved, like smart or kind or silly) was “adaptable,” and I really struggled with feeling very rigid as an adult. Looking back on it, I think I just didn’t know myself very well and couldn’t predict what would overwhelm me. Growing up has been a slow process of learning what does and does not occupy mental energy and how to maximize my spoons.
Edit: also regarding the pain thing: I’ve immigrated to Germany and learning how to complain has been both difficult and revelatory. I tend to consider myself happy and content up to about 70% pain/unpleasant feelings, which is… neither standard nor helpful. I frequently don’t realize that I’m hungry/thirsty/in need of a stretch or bathroom break until it causes problems. In trying to make conversation the way that Germans do, I started kvetching about things, which led to me noticing things that were bothersome. Like, I replaced my work shoes because I only realized they were uncomfortable because I mentioned them to customers. Plus, said customers gave me good advice on what shoes to get.
Interesting, I didn’t know the spoons. I’ve always thought of an energy bar like video game status.
Now I am at about 6 different energy bars. Still not fully figured out which it what applies where.
The fight against neurotypical expectations is real though and a massive issue.
If you want some book recommendations:
The (female) Autists by Clara Törnvall
A fields guide to Earthlings
The former is more a personal experience report and the latter a (dry) analysis from one Autist. I don’t see it the way he does fully and sometimes it’s too abstract but in general, yeah.
However there’s also the hard truth of “you’ll lose” at the end.
I think it really depends on how narrowly you define normal and if you expect anyone to be 100% normal.
I have some very normal sides of me: I love going out for a beer with my colleagues after a day of work, I have a stable partner and the 2.5 kids you were talking about (actually 1.4, right now), a stable job, bought a house…
I also have some odd sides of me: we meet on Lemmy because fuck Reddit (and I try converting people to Lemmy every second day), I have a bunch of unusual hobbies, I love painting my hair weird colors, I pursue my own happiness caring little about what others say (comments I heard: I should drop my career now that I am married/have a kid, I should present seriously now that I have a serious job… honestly I forgot most of them because I just don’t care), I married my partner “way too quickly”, I moved internationally way too many times - including with my partner and recently with our kid.
I expect most people to be similar: a mic of normal and not so normal, with normal defined most by your immediate surroundings.
my sister had commented, “He’s so weird.” Strangely, that was comforting to hear. It’s not that I see being different as a bad thing - it’s more about that unanswerable question of whether I truly am different, or if I’ve just always felt that way.
Seems like other people think my weirdness stands out as well. In particular, things like friends either asking or asserting that I’m autistic, for example.
and I recently asked if they feel normal. They said yes.
I wonder how much the person asking the question affects that answer.
Everyone who likes me has always called me weird (not in a negative way) and I have never understood why, which I guess proves their point. Like, obviously I’m weird, but so is everybody else, and I’m not especially expressive, so I’m not wearing green feather boas to funerals or anything. I don’t mind, and I never did (because again, I think everyone’s weird and know that I am weird), but I just don’t see what they see.
There’s no normal, just a bland mean, small modes and increasingly unfortunate medians
Many people mask to be closer to the mean when they fear rejection
what’s a normal person look like?
Weird
I’ve met so very many of them.
It’s hard because most of it is a spectrum. There is no quintessential “normal” person, since no two people are the same. Everyone has quirks that differentiate them from everyone else.
So any “normal” person might say they are “different”, because they can think of all kinds of things that don’t fit with what they imagine a “normal” person is. Or a “different” person might say they’re “normal”, they might have many traits that aren’t “normal”, but they also have lots in common with “normal” people that they focus on.
The problem is perception and definition. No one usually defines “normal” objectively nor in the same way. It’s all based on experiences, if you had lots of friction all your life you might feel “different”, if everything was smooth sailing you might feel “normal”.
What should be done but is hard or impossible for our brain is derive statistics for every single behavior/quirk and decide for each thing individually if it is a behavior that is shared by the “majority” (define exact percentage threshold for “normal”). Then aggregate all those together (how exactly?) to decide if “you’re normal”.
But who does that? What would be the benefit to do that with every single thing?
That’s why we have modern medicine though. Psychology basically does exactly this when determining if you have a mental illness. And it only makes sense to do this if it messes with your survival functioning, why would you fuss about differences from the norm if they’re not a problem?
What I’m essentially saying is, “normal” and “weird” need to be handled rationally instead of subjectively. Deal with specific differences from the norm if they cause a problem, otherwise ignore them/celebrate them. It is entirely unhelpful to categorize your entire being as “normal” or “different”, as none of us is entirely different or entirely normal. Always look at specific things, deal with them as they arise, and don’t let these small things extend as classification for your entire being.
I don’t think there is anyone like that. Being normal is way too abnormal.
