Hot take:
The US has committed horrifying war crimes and crimes against humanity against Muslims and continues to do so.
And so does China
Its always fascinating to see the war between Nazis and Tankies fight over which imperial power is based, rather than demonstrating a working frontal lobe and damning both for their crimes.
And so does China
The only “evidence” of this comes from the empire and is demonstrably false
Eh, most people probably don’t brag about doing war crimes.
Idk man, this page has over 401 citations from various sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China?wprov=sfla1
Edit: This also has a lot of citations ns from various sources too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_China?wprov=sfla1
The 400 citations in question:
[1] Victims of Communism Memorial Association
[2] Burger Eagle Freedom Institute
[3] China Freedom NGO (Washington DC)
[4-399] Western State Television Station (retrieved in 2020)
[400] Literally the CIA
The article editors in question:
u/USA_STEM_Edgelord_USA_1990
u/TotallyNotAFed69
u/WhiteCisManInHis30s
Good job outing yourself as someone who can only read up to 3 lines before they have to vomit bullshit onto the internet.
Ah yes. Libopedia the pinnicle of (western) truth!
Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information, most especially do to the international collaboration efforts on it.
You can’t just dismiss a source on the basis that you don’t like it. You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy
Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information
Yeah if you’re looking up wood joints and math theorems. Not if you’re trying to learn anything about politics or history that ties into the interests of the systems and institutions that filter the media allowed as valid citations.
And you’ve read zero of them.
Sounds like cope
Someone once put together a book titled, “One Hundred Authors Against Einstein.” Einstein dismissed the book with the quip, “Why one hundred? If I were really wrong, they’d only need one.”
Sounds like a colossal reach at best, and pathetic cope at worst.
You understand the colossal differences between multiple independent journalists researching and reporting on the same topic, and a large organized group of pseudointellectuals trying to disprove a single person based on vibes alone, right?
You seem to be very desperately, and pathetically holding onto a form of fallacy of composition:
China not empire. Behehehehehhehehehehehhehehhe!
Not only has China been an imperialist regional super power for the majority of its lo g history, but simply ask Taiwan, the Uyghurs, Tibet, Hong Kong, Vietnam or any of the various countries China is practicing neocolonialism in in Africa or Island nations
Please explain for the class what imperialism is in your view and how China fits that.
Genocide is bad. If your ideology prevents you from agreeing with that statement, you are a monster.
Nobody here is denying that genocide is bad, what’s in question is what the US Empire says is happening vs what is actually happening. The US Empire has lied before, such as the babies taken from incubators story or Iraq’s WMD, but it was only long after the dust had begun to settle in Iraq that the liberals started to agree with the leftists that the evidence was actually insufficient after all.
Genocide IS bad, but the “muslim genocide” in China is nothing but a CIA op, as usual
You are a CIA op.
Wow 10/10 lib response, so good
(Mass dislikes time!)
Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
But it’s not a fact though? You can’t imagine up some fictional scenario and then just claim it’s a fact; words have meanings
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.
.ml simps so fucking hard for authoritarians in Russia and China?
To liberals, “simping so fucking hard” literally just means, "not believing literally every piece of propaganda that right wing western propaganda outlets pump out about them.
If they were old enough to be paying attention in 2002, they would be accusing anyone who didn’t believe Iraq had WMDs of “simping so fucking hard” for Saddam.
You don’t believe there are WMD? What are you some authoritarian simping tankie?
🤣 Their jabs are so far off the mark, but every time they think they’ve hit the bullseye. If they could see our fremdschämen faces…
I thought I’d blocked ml already. Guess I need to do that again.
How self absorbed do you have to be to announce that?
Blocking ml is a frequent topic of discussion, as it’s widely considered to be propaganda unconnected to reality.
Widely considered unconnected to reality among people who believe that Ukraine is winning the war and there’s an invisible genocide in China. I wonder what Occam’s Razor says about this🤔
“Authoritarian state” is a bullshit category. Authoritarian states are just states insufficiently subservient to Washington. It’s no more or less coherent than “terrorist state,” which the US uses in the same way.
“Authoritarianism” is the contemporary word for “totalitarianism,” which is just an erudite-seming term for horseshoe theory, which is horseshit. Previously:
- ‘Horseshoe theory’ is nonsense – the far right and far left have little in common
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory#Academic_studies_and_criticism
- Funny thing about Hannah Arendt’s construction of “totalitarianism”: She came from a bourgeois family and so was unsurprisingly anti-communist, and she was funded & promoted by the CIA.
Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism
One of the centerpieces of the cultural cold war was the Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF), which was revealed in 1966 to be a CIA front. Hugh Wilford, who has researched the topic extensively, described the CCF as nothing short of one of the largest patrons of art and culture in the history of the world. Established in 1950, it promoted on the international scene the work of collaborationist academics such as Raymond Aron and Hannah Arendt over and against their Marxian rivals, including the likes of Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir.
If not reeducation, which method would you prefer China use to combat the foreign radical Wahhabism and terrorism spread by the CIA in Xinjiang for the purpose of regional destabilization and regime change?
We all know how the US chose to implement its own war on terror. Muslim majority countries in the Middle East support China’s method.
Vocational training and extraordinary rendition & torture at a black site are exactly the same. You fool. You absolute baffoon.
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Bro the CIA isn’t trying to regime change Ukraine, the people there are just legitimately fighting for their sovereignty!
-You in 2014, just before the coup
Bro you haven’t engaged with any of the material we’ve presented in this conversation.
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You forgot the /s
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
Much like how after China foiled their color revolution attempt in 1989, the CIA had to pivot to the “Tinyman Square Massacre” narrative.
Very much like that, and they’re still getting mileage out of it with no effort, because Lemmitors get an endorphin rush every time they do the CIA’s work for free, the brave defenders of freedom & democracy that they are 🤦♂️
this post isn’t cheering on china, it’s shitting on the west’s hypocrisy.
also you might want to look up who funded the wahabis who groomed the terrorists that the crackdown is a response to.
Yeah
"Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.
That still doesn’t change the fact that Iraq is building weapons of mass destruction to attack the USA.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another."
Seriously, how many times do you need to hear it before you western chauvanists realise it’s not about “good or bad”, it’s about trustworthy or untrustworthy.
Ironically Abrahamic religion’s influence feeds into liberalism’s good vs. evil worldview.
Philosophy professor Hans-Georg Moeller: If Morality Exists Everything Is Permitted
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The people that try to equate fake genocide with real genocide are like the school staff punishing bully and victim alike. They are enabling the abuses. Also it must be deeply insulting to the real victims in gaza.
Imagine dying in a “fake genocide”.
No need to resort to imagination with a real verifiable genocide.
Someone at the NYT gets a fatal papercut
And you’re insanely insulting the the real victims in Xinjiang
https://hrf.org/latest/whats-happening-in-chinas-concentration-camps-qa-with-uyghur-camp-survivors/
Where is the evidence? This article is an interview showing two people telling stories, one of which is selling a book, just like Yeonmi Park.
I can too volunteer for an interview as I tell how Greenland is genociding left handed people. But nobody will ever want to pay me for that.Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Chinese genocide denialistYes, reporter, that is precisely what we’re doing. We’re denying that there was or is a genocide in Xinjiang.
We also deny the white genocide in South Africa, among other bogus accusations.Genocides are real things, so it’s important we reliably identify them with factual evidence, not falling for atrocity propaganda. Incorrectly identifying something as genocide is irresponsible much like denying a case of genocide that is actually taking place.
It’s supposedly been a decade long genocide and yet still nobody has been able to present any evidence beyond uncorroborated and inconsistent testimonials from a single digit number of sources, filtered exclusively through right wing American NGOs.
Meanwhile two years of genocide in Gaza produced an endless stream of audio-visual and forensic evidence so overwhelmingly undeniable that even governments participateing in the genocide have started to admit it.
Seriously.
The time jordanlund came here to make an ass of himself about the “Uyghur genocide”: https://lemmy.ml/post/25050001/16268910
A snippet from my response:
(a) Show me the Uyghur bodies
(b) Show me the serious bodily or mental harm
(c) Show me the conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part
(d) Show me the measures intended to prevent births within the group
In accordance with China’s affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.
(e) Show me the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group
All you have are a couple of photos of prisons, which proves nothing, and some garbage testimonies that we’ve debunked a thousand fucking times already.
Both things can be true, China has very tight control of media and they’re officially doing only stuff to terrorists. It’s literally impossible to hide carpet bombing apartment blocks anywhere in the world. Disappearing people into reeducation camps inside isn’t.
“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”
-Michael Parenti
Both things can be true
Anything can be true if you retreat into your mind palace of pure logic and reasoning
Then you can literally just say whatever the fuck you want
With the numbers that Adrian Zenz claims it’s impossible to hide for that long.
The real victims in Xinjiang were the people who got stabbed & bombed & run over by CIA-funded Salafi jihad terrorists, which fortunately is no longer a thing, much to the CIA’s chagrin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Chronology_of_major_events
CIA is not mentioned a single time in the linked wiki article
It will 200% be declassified as a CIA operation in 40 years, but by then new accusations on new enemies of he US will be the new topic no one is able to question. If the US still exists by then lol
No shit the CIA isn’t mentioned. Do you think CIA agents would have been there at the scenes of these terrorist attacks? That’s not how any of this works.
Your argument seams conflicting. On one hand your arguing that there isn’t enough evidence to argue that there is no genocide in china (which I agree with) but your also stating that the US has covered up all the evidence of there involvement with terrorism in china but the cia is still involved. What evidence heavily suggests or proves there involvement?
CIA agents would be, CIA officers wouldn’t
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Its only legal if you just want to steal their natural resources
We’re very butthurt about our failed color revolution, and we’re very concerned that we can’t even manage to make lemonade out of our lemon.
Westerners, every time:
“Our genocides are the good genocides” thinking persisting this long is baffling. Even more disturbing is these people are in power.
Is it though? People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. No one wants to believe that their privileges are predicated on suffering elsewhere.
Westerners in particularly have always been very “heads in the sand” when it comes to modern history but it’s not surprising. Every nation struggles with the darker aspects of their history.
Correct: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
Meanwhile I get nothing out of it but insults and the hope that a (very) few will begin their deprogramming journey, as I did soon after 9/11.
As long as you critically stan a state, it’s okay to support genocide. /s
That does appear to be the western liberal belief
Translation, we are very concerned because someone else is doing the killing, they took ur, joooobsss
Listen, I’m sure there’s a very good reason why we have radically different policies towards Afghani Muslims and Uyghur Muslims, despite the fact they share a border and a litany of cultural practices.
lol seriously. Most obvious propaganda scam of all time. Libs fell hook line and sinker though.
When lemmy.lib sends its people, they’re not sending their best.
Unfortunately, they are.
So concerned that we bribed foreign terrorists to blow shit up in Xinjiang, forcing China to spend on education and job programs there.
These people, who don’t know shit about fuck, are absolutely sure that they already know everything that needs to be known, and that we don’t know shit about fuck.
And in twenty years they’ll say they knew it all along.
This is some next level racism.
Please elaborate: where’s the racism?
This has been the US playbook since before we were born, and funding, arming, and influencing Salafi jihadists in particular has been going on since at least the 1980s. Previously:
6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace
FAIR: Forgotten Coverage of Afghan ‘Freedom Fighters’ But the U.S. government and the American press have not always opposed Afghan extremists. During the 1980s, the Mujahiddin guerrilla groups battling Soviet occupation had key features in common with the Taliban. In many ways, the Mujahiddin groups acted as an incubator for the later rise of the Taliban in the 1990s.
Despite CIA denials of any direct Agency support for Bin Laden’s activities, a considerable body of circumstantial evidence suggests the contrary. During the 1980s, Bin Laden’s activities in Afghanistan closely paralleled those of the CIA. Bin Laden held accounts in the Bank for Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), the bank the CIA used to finance its own covert actions. Bin Laden worked especially closely with Hekmatyar—the CIA’s favored Mujahiddin commander. In 1989, the U.S. shipped high-powered sniper rifles to a Mujahiddin faction that included bin Laden, according to a former bin Laden aide.
No need to censor, you can say A on lemmy.
LAMBO /s
Well, they can’t let another country move into their game.
Valid meme but hopefully it doesn’t minimize the plight of Uyghurs in peoples minds.
The only plight is the plight of a psyop
Maybe next time read the comments first.
Whataboutism, and possibly propaganda. They are both horrible and should not exist. Moral superiority doesn’t matter if people are being systematically murdered.
When dealing with hypocrites, whataboutism is the correct and logically consistent response.
People who complain about whataboutism are 99% hypocrites whose hypocrisy has been pointed out. And they have no rational arguments to defend their view other than deflecting the topic.
Citations Needed podcast:
Whataboutism - The Media’s Favorite Rhetorical Shield Against Criticism of US PolicySince the beginning of what’s generally called ‘RussiaGate’ three years ago, pundits, media outlets, even comedians have all become insta-experts on supposed Russian propaganda techniques. The most cunning of these tricks, we are told, is that of “whataboutism” – a devious Soviet tactic of deflecting criticism by pointing out the accusers’ hypocrisy and inconsistencies. The tu quoque - or, “you, also” - fallacy, but with a unique Slavic flavor of nihilism, used by Trump and leftists alike in an effort to change the subject and focus on the faults of the United States rather than the crimes of Official State Enemies.
But what if “whataboutism” isn’t describing a propaganda technique, but in fact is one itself: a zombie phrase that’s seeped into everyday liberal discourse that – while perhaps useful in the abstract - has manifestly turned any appeal to moral consistency into a cunning Russian psyop. From its origins in the Cold War as a means of deflecting and apologizing for Jim Crow to its braindead contemporary usage as a way of not engaging any criticism of the United States as the supposed arbiter of human rights, the term “whataboutism” has become a term that - 100 percent of the time - is simply used to defend and legitimizing American empire’s moral narratives.
Jesus Christ, “Whataboutism” really does just mean anything other than complete blind belief in the American Nat-sec blob now. “Oh, you don’t believe that people who activity cheer on the genocide of Palestinians are being sincere in their claimed concern for Chinese Muslims? WHATABOUTISM!”
people are being systematically murdered.
I assume you’re referring to Gaza? Because not even the most frothing sinophobes have tried to claim a “systematic murder” of Muslims in China, so if you’re not referring to Gaza, you are literally making up lies whole cloth.
Thanks for the vaguepost 👍
Are we to ignore the obvious evils of US Imperialism?
This meme doesn’t need the word “Muslims”
More likely the meme went over your head.
Substitute “people” for “Muslim”. The point is still valid.
