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I know at least one city in France taking measures to severely limit Airbnb, because it’s becoming a ghost town and people who actually work there can’t find anywhere to live. The housing situation in the area is terrible.
Good for them. I already can’t stand “professional” landlords that get into the business of shitting over places people need to live to maximise profit. Those who are taking over those spaces to turn them into fake hotels without the constraints are the lowest of that scum.
Weird way of asking for 5 stars, but ok. /s
What I don’t get is why the people of Barcelona want tourists out. That’s such a dumb knee-jerk reaction imho. Tourism is not the problem. In fact it’s a major revenue for the city. They could use it to build affordable housing for locals. The government could put a cap on rent and similar restrictions on whatever Airbnb arrangements. If it’s not more profitable to give out one’s property for short term rentals then the trend will fade. If someone can explain the current anti-tourism stance as opposed to a push for alternative measures I’d appreciate it.
Because the people making money are not the people living there.
The government could put a cap on rent and similar restrictions on whatever Airbnb arrangements.
Not easy. They tried but don’t have the authority. I think they managed for home long term rentals but not as aggressive as before.
The revenue from tourism is limited to the city. Most rentals are owned by large foreign companies, so profit goes away. Clearly not enough to pay for extra housing (one airbnb house taxes can’t pay for a full new house).
Also, they are pushing away people who lived there, as the neighborhoods are focusing on tourists more and more (again, foreign investment firms who don’t spend back in the city).
I used to live 25 min walking to Sagrada Familia. 8 years ago there were usually no tourists or stores focused on tourists. Now it’s a very common place for tourists to stay, and prices show it.
I’m guessing all those things that could and should happen are not happening because of greed.
Shouldnt have sold your home to a parasite corporation then, doesnt sound very anarchist to me. Then gets angry and enshittifies their city with spraypaint, people from barca aren’t the brightest bunch.
Are you lobotomised? Obviously the author doesn’t own the house duh
Airbnb used to be great… I could rent out a spare room and make a bit of cash. Then the developers, and the people who weren’t responsible enough to be landlords had to make houses that were all AirBnb.
Why don’t these places vet Airbnbs instead of straight banning it. Owner occupied dwellings should get a pass.
I remember when it was about renting your place for a few days when you were traveling
Do those rentals still exist?
Air bnbs are a cancer. You should be ashamed of yourself if your buying property then renting it out. With what they charge they are able to pay tge mortgage in 3 nights
Source?
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
This is the bullshit that allows this kind of game. Hate the player, hate the game, and hate the observer with a dumb fuck outlook.
False. I try my best to win at whatever ruleset is in front of me. Its human nature and game theory.
The game of capitalism is absolute horseshit. You should hate it. Work to tear it down if you’re up for it.
I took the cowardly - if you can’t beat them join them - approach.
I’ll bet my life will be better than yours given our choices though. So who’s right?
Fuck me, for self-proclaimed coward you are unbelievably smug. Don’t you consider that a “better” life also means being able to take pride that the way you move through the world doesn’t actively harm others. Just awful.
Sorry, but I couldn’t live with myself if I made my outcome better by hurting others.
And I’m a combat vet. I’ve learned through my mistakes what I’m willing to live with on my conscience. It’s guided who I’ve become since then.
If you’re willing to give up your morals, ethics and self-consciousness for money, then I’d like to get in an octagon to teach you the difference between me and you.
You were a combat vet invading someone’s country for personal gain and fuck knows what other fucked up shit you did, you cant say shit about not hurting others
We’re in a game. There are fake rules. Fake borders. Fake laws. It’s all made up. You can play, or not play. Try to tear it down, that’s awesome.
Everyone playing a game should be trying to win though. Morals? Ethics? It’s a game, don’t you get it?
What you’re saying is akin to Jews that were selling out their peers in Nazi concentration camps. Because you’re just playing the game you’re in, right? That’s not your fault, right? You’re excusing doing horrible acts for personal survival. You’re no better than any Nazi trying to excuse their horrible choices during the Nuremberg trials.
I said hate the game didn’t I? Stop concerning yourself with the cowards looking out for their own skin, and bring down the system then. What exactly are you doing about it?
That’s a pretty short term view you have there. Good luck.
Short term? Do you own acres of land you’re learning how to sustainably subsistence farm on?
That what the billionaire says when I tell them how bad their private jets and yachts are for the environment.
Not quite. There’s no game there. That’s just excess.
Funny how we vilify those who are renting it out, but not those that are renting. Its the scalper argument all over again. Blaming the seller, but not the buyer who creates the market. If no one rents, then no one is going to buy to set up an airbnb.
And this is why governemental regulation is the only way and why capitalism has its problems: Capitalists blaming the consumenr for the existing market. People will use the offer the capitalists create for them if it is convenient for them and they draw an advantage from it. Of course you can always blame the consumer, and protect the guy who out of pure compassion creates a market that destroys our world even faster. But hey, at least someone profitet from it in the meanwhile.
What about induced demand?
I’d agree with you a lot more if AirBnB wasn’t a lot cheaper than any hotel or other travel accommodation. A town that relies on tourism might be different, but in the USA I save about $100 and get a more private place to stay.
Be better.
That’s the struggle every day, Pooptart. Every day; and in a system that doesn’t want me to.
Then who are you? Do you even know who you are as a person if you don’t have the ethics to make a stand? Do you just meh all over your morals? Just give up on everything you believe? Or is it that you don’t have morals, and you’re just making excuses?
Oh yeah. Here I’m just a silly little installation wizard who contributes here attempting to be meaningful and provide conversation nuggets. In real life I’m playing that balancing act between ethics, my resources/influence, and trying to not burn out.
I’ve done plenty of things based off of morals without it being the “smart” or most personally beneficial decision. AirBnB just isn’t one of those due to how much I can save and put towards local restaurants, bars, and tipping when I finally vacation. I also don’t trust hotel corps to use my money ethically, and have used an AirBnB maybe once a year on average. I’m hoping I can have another actual vacation soon since it has been 4 years.
Also, I strongly believe that my responsibility is taking care of my wife and family first, then community/political contribution.
What about you? Where do you stay when traveling where there aren’t friends or family?
I don’t travel. Like, at all. The most I travel is the 20 miles it takes to get my kid from his mom’s house. I don’t need the luxury of burning CO2 and ruining the housing market to have a good time.
I’ve never understood the appeal of AirBNBs, letting complete strangers stay at my house sounds like it’d be an absolute NIGHTMARE.
It’s not people’s houses anymore. It’s all property investors.
From what I heard from my brother, he lives in Barcelona, they are banning bnbs and short term rentals. In order to combat this problem.
That’s great for them. But I live in the capitalist nightmare that is the US. I’m one generation removed from being able to go back to Norway or Sweden. It’s like being imprisoned in a hellscape at birth.
For more details: https://www.euronews.com/travel/2024/07/22/the-end-of-airbnb-in-barcelona-what-does-the-tourism-industry-have-to-say
I live here (!barcelona@piefed.social), the mayor who announced the decision made it so that it would applied after the end of his tenure (that will end in 2027, the decision is supposed to happen in 2028)
The other issue is that even besides tourism, Barcelona is a very attractive city for Spanish people due to the work opportunities, and there is definitely a lack of supply for the housing market. Getting back the Airbnb would help with the mass tourism (which is an issue of its own), but the housing crisis might still be there for a while.
So it is the same as in the rest of Europe with a helping of mass tourism so similar to Amsterdam and Paris.
It’s a bit different, Amsterdam and Paris are touristic destinations, but not to the same level as Barcelona.
By absolute numbers, Paris has obviously more visitors (22 millions vs 13 for Barcelona and 10 for Amsterdam), but Paris is much more populated than Barcelona.
Also, the type of tourism is quite different. Amsterdam and Paris are more expensive, while Barcelona is still seen as a cheaper destination, which brings a different type of crowd. On the same topic, the average level of income of the people living in Barcelona is quite lower than people living in Paris or Amsterdam, making it even more difficult for people living in Barcelona to compete against either tourists or “digital nomads” coming here to work without paying taxes locally.
Sources
No I get it is not the same but the problems are similar. Too many tourist in a city with too few houses and apartments that are now being used as bnbs.
Yes indeed. I think in Europe the worst is probably Lisbon, that has basically been overrun by foreigners, but that’s a common phenomenon in all major cities.
I did know about Lisbon. I remember hearing the Swiss canton of Vaud had around 60% of it’s population was foreigners. Which resulted in the local Swiss no longer being able to afford any form of housing anymore.
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They banned airbnb in victoria bc last year and rent here has actually went down. From this one single change.
But the land lords told us Airbnb doesn’t effect rental prices and actually let’s people afford homes!
lol who said this
The people letting AirBNBs!
Okay, but who. I want the name of a specific person or organisation and a link to where they said that. Because it’s such a stupid statement that I’m not going to just take someone’s word that someone was dumb enough to say it or thought people would be dumb enough to believe it.
oh boy, do I have some bad news for you about the stupid shit people believe
It was all over the BC online forums when the province banned short term rentals outside primary residence.
There were op eds, bad studies, lying companies etc. Here a few from quick internet search
A crappy study trying to gaslight people. This was all over. https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate/airbnbs-dont-cause-residential-rent-increases-conference-board-8273746
Air bnb makes the argument they aren’t responsible https://www.airbnb.ca/e/closerlook
Arguing it lowers costs https://news.ncsu.edu/2024/10/airbnb-and-housing-costs/
Thanks
Sorry, I thought you were joking and was playing along!
What happened is the province made short-term rentals only legal for primary residences and secondary suites.
That sure helped some, but you can still find airbnb/vrbo listings in Victoria.Yeah it freed up entire apartments is what helped. I was able to BUY my own condo due to a slight correction in prices partly thanks to this policy
I bet someone would have outbid me and made it into an airbnb if not for this policy
Reducing rent prices was the plan and to be honest, the obvious outcome when demand goes down.
You can also buy one of these tiny former airbnb studio condos for like 20k cad down if you are desperate. Good way to enter the market if that’s all you can come up with. They are all sitting on the market and you can lowball.
Link to condo purchase place?
Just go on realtor.ca and look for 0 bedroom 1 bath units
20k down will get you into a <400k condo that will be like 2/3 the cost of what rent would be
However I would be concerned it’s a hard sell in 5 years when you want to upgrade. I know a lady who lives happily in 400sqft but I couldn’t.
>0 bedroom 1 bath
the fuck
I live in a small CA mountain town that was “the only town open” during COVID, and as such, Airbnb went apeshit. Well the market got oversaturated and now with people trying to offload these properties or rent them out to long term residents , and shocker, rents are coming down (along with home prices). We still have yoyos trying to get $4k/mo for a 2/1 piece of shit because I’m guessing they’re upside down on their mortgage, but those properties have been sitting on the market for at least 6mos. I have zero empathy for the people that bought high and losing their asses because they wanted to make it rich at the expense of our local population.
I live in Florida and we had an influx of people. Mainly due to Florida not shutting down during Covid. I traveled to Puerto Rico during that time and they were shut down. Most of the Bahamas Islands were shutdown as well.
My wife and went on our honeymoon in 2022 to Puerto Rico, and it was honestly pretty lax. We were on the west side in and around Rincon.
Canmore?
Hahaha fuck I miss old Canmore
Probably should’ve specified California lol
Throwing darts over here, Pinecrest?
Much further south, I ain’t Uncle Rico
It never ceases to amaze me how people get get so brainwashed on xenophobia and hating tourists when its their government at fault.
Edit: Well looks like 18 lemmy users didn’t read the news. Locals in barcelonia were literally harassing tourists with water-guns, instead of actually protesting against their government.
Its about the cost of living and lack of affordable housing when companies buy up or build new places just to rent them out on airbnb, that’s why it says it used to be their home. Nothing to do with tourism or xenophobia.
Looks like someone didn’t read the news.
Spain is cracking down on this according to a local when I was there recently.
On Airbnb or the garfiti?
garfiti
I choose to interpret this as referring specifically to Garfield Grafitti.
Airbnb
This feels like misplaced anger, given that blackstone owns god knows how much of the real estate market ( and have recently been evicting tenants in order to sell, due to the city becoming ‘less hospitable’ ). But hopefully the new anti airbnb measures have some effect.
In Barcelona?
Not everything is solely an american issue, even (especially) when it comes to US companies.
Doing some minimal research, it does appear as if they are trying to take over the world: https://archive.is/ZQBz3
It’s kind of what they do… I wouldn’t assume safety because of borders or local rules and regulations. Those don’t stand up against billions of dollars and a determined evil company.
Classic Lemmy where someone says “not every is American” in response to an issue that actually does apply to them
I don’t think it’s misplaced, but even if it’s not the biggest piece in the puzzle(I honestly don’t claim to know) it’s still a valuable piece, one might even say it’s as valuable as an edge of corner piece of the puzzzle
Not sure if anyone who lives here hasn’t seen it yet, but !barcelona@piefed.social is a thing.
Copy pasted from another comment, the mayor who announced the decision made it so that it would applied after the end of his tenure (that will end in 2027, the decision is supposed to happen in 2028)
The other issue is that even besides tourism, Barcelona is a very attractive city for Spanish people due to the work opportunities, and there is definitely a lack of supply for the housing market. Getting back the Airbnb would help with the mass tourism (which is an issue of its own), but the housing crisis might still be there for a while.
why would anarchism be a solution to this, surely it would make it worse?
Since no one is answering seriously, I will try. There is a distinct difference in anarchist philosophy between property and possession which I will try to explain with housing.
Property is something that is used to oppress people. Which is why anarchist philosophy aims to abolish all property. In this case, housing that is being used for Airbnbs takes a house from someone that could use it to create a home for themselves and their family and instead uses that land and building to make a profit .
Possession on the other hand would be someone using that land and building to make a home for themselves and their family, not to make a profit but to survive and exist.
Owning one home for yourself is not a property but a possession but owning multiple homes that you use to make a profit is property. So the anarchist solution to this is to give that Airbnb to someone who could make it into a permanent home, not a short term rental.
And the corporations have spent so much time and money fighting the idea that now anarchists are now associated with terrorists amongst boomers at least.
To be fair, that’s not just due to corporations but also due to the mismatch in meaning between anarchist as a political movement and anarchist as a word from the dictionary. The movement covers only a small portion of what the word covers. Communicating more clearly as a movement can avoid the confusion
This reminds me of the campsite rule but applied globally: “Leave the world a better place than you found it.”
If your ethos is to own and manage as many housing units as possible, you’re not going to improve them since, paradoxically, leaving the world a better place doesn’t help grow your enterprise. On the other hand, if every housing unit is managed exclusively and only by a single local person who doesn’t split their attention, then that person has a personal incentive to improve their home since they suffer the direct consequences of neglecting their possessions.
Absolutely! And by improving your own home, you are directly improving the community and environment for those around you while others do the same for you.
If property doesn’t exist, you can’t go on vacation though.
When you leave your house, someone else can just come in and take it for himself.
You couldn’t even go for a walk. The moment you leave the house you stop “possessing” it.
If property doesn’t exist, you can’t go on vacation though.
We’re getting dangerously close to “under Communism, you will share a toothbrush”
We’ll. Since I’m uneducated, you could try explaining why I’m wrong instead of making fun of me.
It is absolutely possible to go on vacation without oppressing or exploiting others. It happens all the time. You can avoid Airbnbs and stay in a hotel, camp, sleep in a car, or just stay home.
I really don’t understand how you came to the conclusion that you cease possession of something the moment you end physical contact with it. You’re gonna have to walk me through that one if you want to actually argue that point.
If there’s no state to protect your possession, you are the one responsible for protecting it. The moment you lose physical contact, you cannot protect it. Unless you put traps all over your house to deter an invader.
I don’t see how in a stateless society you could go on vacation without the fear of your home being “stolen” when you return.
Pardon the confusion. This is Lemmy, anarchism is a utopistic solution where everyone sings kumbaya and gets along, not an apocalyptic hellscape where the people with the most guns amass all power. Fortunately, there has never been a societal experiment to determine what anarchy really is, so no one has to be proven wrong.
ah, makes sense. thanks
not an apocalyptic hellscape where the people with the most guns amass all powerHahaha yeah that’s totally not what capitalism is at all, right guys? …right?
Right, but they didn’t talk about capitalism.
Do you even know what anarchism is like at all?
Your username is a bit of a contradictio in terminis, if I may say so.
Pasting the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article here:
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that seeks to abolish all institutions that perpetuate authority, coercion, or hierarchy, primarily targeting the state and capitalism. Anarchism advocates for the replacement of the state with stateless societies and voluntary free associations. A historically left-wing movement, anarchism is usually described as the libertarian wing of the socialist movement (libertarian socialism).
Zero government. No rules. Take it with force. Of course we’re aware of what y’all think. You’re the libertarians of the left.
Nope, try again.
No kings, no masters. Mutual aid and harmony without authoritarian leadership.
Kropotkin can explain it better than I can, maybe pick up his book called Mutual Aid.
Cute. Who protects the property? Mutual Aid sounds nice on paper. The truth of human nature is that the strong will take anything you work to build.
yeah, we don’t want the strong taking everything you build. Just bend over and let the rich do it instead, because that’s better for some reason
That is objectively wrong according to most historians and anthropologists. It is propaganda written by those in power to justify their abuse of power. What you are describing is generally seen as sociopathic and antisocial behavior. And this may come as a shock to you, but most people are not sociopaths.
The people with the most power and force are sociopathic though. So we can all be as empathetic as is reasonable, but a relatively small group of well armed people will take everything.
Anarchy and Libertarianism are the wishful thinking of the left and right. People may on average be good, but large enough groups never are.
The whole point of mutual aid is to prevent that though. It organizes people together to stop a small group of people from taking everything.
The hard part is getting everyone to participate in mutual aid when we live in a dog eat dog world that was built by the small group of well armed people.
- progressive taxation of properties that are not a primary residence. Rachet up the taxation for each additional property. I think their should be a certain amount of relief for actually maintaining the building and renting to Section 8/affordable housing programs
- actually enforce zoning. A short term rental is a hotel business and should require a commercial business license and respect the zoning associated with that type of license
I fucking hate 2010 venture capital companies like AirBnb and Uber. Flaunt the law in a sexy way, loss lead with the capital to build market share, then crank the price up.
It’s always bullshit behind a convenient app with great UI
Man, if only there were some organisation that were powerful enough to enforce these rules against people who don’t want to follow them.
Aren’t taxes and zoning non-existent under anarchy?
If there is no state, there is no one to pay taxes to. And if there is no state, there is no one to make and enforce zoning laws.
Tell me you know nothing of anarchy without saying you know nothing.
I believe they specifically asked about anarchy? If they know little about it, what could they have posted that would have been better than what they did post?
They’re open to a lucky 10,000 moment; don’t drop the ball!
Make a place undesirable to rent an Abnb in and people may stop renting.
They could live in a home, for staters. Squatting is the crime of living in somebody else’s legal property, but under anarchy, an unused home is being put to use, arguably to do what is was designed for. We don’t necessarily need total anarchy to push the idea that “sometimes the rules are worse than no rules at all”.
Renting out property is so evil, and Airbnb is like a double evil on top of that. Very powerful graffiti that makes a good clear message, well done to whoever did this.
