Good insights, and not just software developers, really. We don’t like ads, sensationalism, or anything reeking of bullshit. If we have to talk to someone to find out the price, the product may as well not exist.
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They tend not to work on neurodivergent people and there is a huge overlap between NDs and “nerds.”
the rampant consumerism in nerd spaces seems to disprove the Lemmy title in the large, even if this specific example indicates the opposite wrt marketing by software firms aimed at developers.
Plot twist: this is an ad campaign
developers want to read documentation
they won’t look at any white papers
?!?!?!?!!
White papers are shit written by marketing people who try to make their little ad sound like something academic. In truth these white papers are in equal parts misunderstandings, wrong and full of useless fluff. They are AI slop, often completely without any AI involvement.
If someone is serious about the content, they call it a documentation, reference or datasheet.
This… strikes me more as self-aggrandizing than informative.
Yes, many technical folks are put off by certain marketing tricks. Good marketers just use different techniques when targeting people in this market, when they bother to at all.
We’re not immune to manipulation; and thinking that we are makes us more susceptible to it.
Agreed, it’s tooting his own cohort’s horn without acknowledging he is, inf act, susceptible to marketing. The actual topic at hand is marketing for software tools to software devs. Of course hand-waving marketing doesn’t work, it’s a technical field with technical products. The marketing he’s blasting is emotion-based marketing. Guess what, there’s plenty of other emotional decisions that will be affected by marketing in his life. Vacation destinations, artistic exhibitions, restaraunts, games, whatever. This article screams like it’s from someone who loudly proclaims marketing is dumb because they weren’t swayed to by women’s deodorant because of a YouTube ad.
You are not immune to marketing.
But you need to remember that those targeted practices are very few in comparison to the volume of neuro-regular/non-technical folks.
So we arent peone to the same bullshit in regards to volume.Maybe - but the marketing that won’t affect you isn’t what you need to worry about. It’s the parts that do still work on you need to be careful of - and if you assume nothing will ever work on you, you won’t even notice when something does take. Whether that’s buying a trinket that doesn’t actually make you happy, or joining a group that turns out to be a cult.
Always better to assume you can be manipulated, and check in with yourself periodically.
Programmer YouTubers is a good example.
We just get sold on opensource js framework with a sprinkle of SaaS (no rug pull I swear) to keep the investors happy.
Here’s the thing… I want to be sold something. Not anything, but certain somethings. There was a brief time when Google AdSense was new that I was excited for the experience. (I now know how fucking stupid I was, but hey, I was young).
The idea that a new product aligned to my interests and designed with me in mind would be advertised to me instead of feminine hygiene products or mesothelioma lawsuit ads seemed awesome.
I do not want your bullshit hype machine alpha male inside club cool kid image peddled as the reason I should hand you my money. You’ve got the wrong guy. Tell me what it does with a side of what I can do with it. And the “what I can do with it” shouldn’t be “get laid”.
AdSense could have been amazing if it was used to find good ads for the user instead of finding good users for the ad.
Bring back catalogs.
Who here remembers Computer Shopper?
When I want something, I’ll come to you. Don’t come to me.
I think McMaster still has a catalogue…
A-fucking-men
The idea that a new product aligned to my interests and designed with me in mind would be advertised to me instead of feminine hygiene products or mesothelioma lawsuit ads seemed awesome.
Broadly speaking, the problem with modern American advertisement isn’t the content so much as the volume. Tried to watch a football game a few weeks back and I barely saw any football being played. Every millisecond of screen time and every pixel of screen space that wasn’t a moving football was consumed by ads.
I was at an actual game a year ago, foolishly thinking being there was going to be a better experience. NOPE. Ads on the announcements. Ads at the endzones. Ads painted into the turf. I got solicited to buy shit as I was loading up my ticket and right inside the gate once I was scanned in. The whole interior of the stadium was a mall full of overpriced crap. Seats were branded. The food was branded. I was buying something and I was drowning in people trying to sell me more shit.
I don’t care if every single item on offer is something I might actually want. I can’t fucking breath for it all.
Volume is the biggest problem, sure. Content is a close second. I was flabbergasted last time I was in the USA. Ads have barely any relation to what they’re selling.
A poster for shoes features a full-body shot of a half-naked model, the shoes barely visible with the whole poster within your visual field at once.
Ads for beer, travel agencies, clothes and antidepressant medicine, which should be illegal to advertise, by the way, are indistinguishable from each other: just a few happy 20-somethings in a nonspecific late afternoon outdoors setting.
A bunch of ads I saw I don’t even know what they were for, they just had hot young people and logos for companies I never heard of. No text, no nothing.
Several ads purporting to sell an “experience” when they were for the most mundane, use-it-on-autopilot products you’ve ever heard of. The products were so forgettable I can’t remember an actual example, but picture an ad selling you on the wonderful experience of using the new ad-supported monthly coat hanger subscription service and you’ve got it.
Ads for lawyers (something else that should be illegal) were on point though: “hey, do you want money you know you don’t deserve at all but can be argued in bad faith that you do? Hit me up”.
Oh, and everything is perpetually half-off, because the American consumer is apparently too stupid to realize that just means they’re lying about the price.
Ad placement is not only bought for the purpose to introduce you to their product for you to buy. Sadly most ad placement is bought for brand re-enforcement (Coca-Cola purchases a magnitude more ads even though everyone knows the company and the product, but sells many more bottles than Pepsi)
And the gratuitous association between random brand X and random hot person Y surely also serves a purpose, like subliminally telling your lizard brain that you’ll become like hot person Y, or succeed in mating with them, if you buy brand X. That explains the problem, but does nothing to make it less of a problem.
I think a slightly more insidious side to targeting ads is that even when they have the “right” product for you, it’s the shitier and overpriced one. The one that spent money on marketing instead of quality.
Bullshit
Funko pops. Lego. Star wars. Marvel
This article is about software tools, not those other things.
Yeah but OP decided to completely change the title which will inevitably result in comments like this since the majority of users don’t read articles.
Has anyone been to any kind of convention for nerdy things. Nerds are so captured by the marketing and products being sold that they let it take over their personality and they can’t stop buying junk.
Yeah, this is self-aggrandizement from a group of people who consistently believe they’re smarter than everybody else, when in reality they just lack self-awareness. Nerds will smugly post in this thread using their overpriced mechanical keyboard as a wall of Funko pops and Star Wars slop looms behind them. I worked in marketing for a long time and I know damn well I’m not immune to it.
Pretty much, yeah.
The article points out how a bunch of specific techniques don’t work on programmers. That’s because they’re aimed at project managers, not programmers. And yeah, they work. Hardly any programmers willingly chose Jira for their ticketing system, but project managers love that shit, and it’s everywhere.
All it really means is that it takes a different set of marketing techniques to reach programmers. They generally don’t bother, because programmers don’t typically control the budget directly.
I believe that thinking you’re immune to something makes you even more vulnerable, because it creates a cognitive blind spot. If you think you can’t make mistakes, you don’t stop to wonder if you are making one.
You just described Geeks. Geek and Nerd group labels can sometimes apply to the same people, but they are not synonymous, and a person can be one without the other.
Geeks are enthusiasts who collect and engage with specific topics, often focusing on trends and memorabilia, while nerds are more academically inclined, concentrating on mastering knowledge and skills in their areas of interest. Both terms can overlap, but they emphasize different aspects of passion and expertise.
https://laist.com/shows/take-two/whats-the-difference-between-a-geek-and-a-nerd
I knew somebody would try to play that card. People who insist on that distinction are the least self-aware of all.
You’re resorting to personal attacks without knowing who I am, what I do, what I do or don’t have on the wall behind me. You apply a blanket label on all people who you class a certain way, and when I disagree with your label and its implications, and recommend nuance, you class me further.
It sounds like you think very highly of yourself, or lowly of everyone else, or both.
What makes your opinions here worthwhile?
You are not immune to marketing (or to propaganda in general). The more you become at ease with that fact, the better equipped you will be to deal with the deluge of shit that is coming for all of us.
What makes your opinions here worthwhile?
As I said in another reply, I worked in marketing for a long time, so I have first-hand experience that most others here don’t. Many have a rather narrow definition of what they’re willing to label “advertising” and don’t realize how much is actually happening all around them. I’m applying a blanket label because the blanket is covering all of us, even those who fervently deny it and insist that it’s simply warm and cozy wherever they are.
Everyone arguing with this account needs to realize that they might as well be talking to an LLM. Look at how advertisers think:
https://www.goldennumber.net/wp-content/uploads/pepsi-arnell-021109.pdf
Just like an LLM can’t distinguish between truth and fiction they can’t distinguish between meaningful information and advertising BS. The people here will never win their argument against them because they classify all human communication as an act of manipulation, so the definition of advertising will be made more and more broad until they say “look, you were swayed”.
Excuse me but “it” is not my preferred pronoun. That’s pretty disrespectful.
I got a curved, split, tented ortholinear monstrosity with a built in trackball and I’m finally done. I get that it’s stupid and a waste of money but my hands feel so good typing all day on it
I did too. I didn’t get it to look cool, I got it because I have carpal tunnel and I don’t want to have surgery.
I like the clicky, it allows me to type longer, and I can fidgit with the firmware and do what I want with it.
If I got it because it looks techy then I’d just be a poser
I disagree, I don’t fall into the category you stated. My walls are lined with 80s memorabilia and 3d printed things I have created. I reject anything advertised to me and will only purchase tech that I have sought out that meets my needs.
If this irony, good job because I think most people will fall for it.
I don’t think it is. I know a few people like this, and im heading in that direction myself. The only kinds of “ads” that work on me are when a number of equally nerdy people I know find a new thing, and they’ve demonstrated that it has helped them with something or they are genuinely enjoying using it. Like 3D printing. Its semi-pointless most of the time but it is a genuinely fun hobby, which when combined with 3D modeling and post-processing skills becomes an actual craft. I didn’t get into it until a good number of people around me did.
80s memorabilia and 3D printers are not exempt form marketing. They are products just like anything else.
3D printers are not exempt form marketing
Case in point: Bambu and Autodesk sponsoring every maker Youtuber. (Fuck both Bambu and Autodesk, BTW.)
Wait. I thought bambu made good printers? Why fuck them?
*I ask because I want a 3d printer for christmas and don’t know which to get. The bambu seems great.
They’re not nerds. They’re posers.
I don’t have a single funko pop or Star Wars toy or whatever. I have a Keychron keyboard that cost me $70, while it is more costly than the average membrane I like mechanical ones. I never buy new if I can (usually this is a time constraint, I.e I broke my phone and I need to replace it quick one because my job relies it). I Adblock everywhere I possibly can to not see the ads but I genuinely believe I’m immune to advertising.
I genuinely believe I’m immune to advertising.
You are not - you just don’t see it as such. Even if you didn’t use the internet at all (which we can see is not the case) you would still fall victim to its network effects.
Then they ain’t nerds, sorry.
Right? I’ve seen the walls of Funko Pops… nerds definitely are not immune to marketing.
do people actually buy those? I honestly thought they were some kind of money laundering thing. I’ve never once saw one sell.
I’ve seen maybe 3 passable figures by them. Mind boggling that they actually sell.
Maybe it’s a whale thing, most people don’t give a shit but the people who do have to buy all of them to sate their neurosis
Working in tech, I’ve seen a lot of them in people’s cubicles.
They aren’t fucking nerds then. Nerds don’t buy Funko Pops.
I can name 3 or 4 people who own walls of Funko pops and I can tell you they wouldn’t know an IDE from MS Word. None of them went to college either.
They’re posers.
If you say so… but some of the Funko collectors I know are definitely die-hard nerds. Having bad taste doesn’t exclude you from nerddom.
Posers. All of them.
Nerds enjoy a hobby, like tabletop games.
Posers buy Funkos and toys that they never open.
Nerds have fun. Posers try to look like they do.
Is that marketing or is it just finding stuff they want to own?
It’s marketing making them think they want to own that stuff.
How do you think you “found” it? A whole supply chain of people, from branding to packaging to advertising, made it so that you can “find” things on websites that are themselves outright advertisements or at least funded by them.
It’s marketing.
Marketing. It is very effective.
Nerds in arrested development over a franchize is not the same as seeing any ad and then that makes them want to buy a product.
Yeah but I don’t think that’s marketing, if you’re going to a con for something, you’re likely very passionate about it and passionate people love to scoop up everything they can that relates to their beloved hobby or franchise.
Also, nerds tend to have a good amount of disposable income on that stuff
The cons themselves are marketing. Heavy marketing. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to say. Vendors (and even artists for crying out loud) are willing to pay top dollar for booths to sell stuff. On the surface, they are their namesake - conventions. Dig any deeper, and they are giant pop-up malls.
The phenomenon of fanboyism in Tech disproves that, IMHO.
Good marketing absolutely works on nerds. We will literally share cool ads (funny world best) with each other in the same way with memes, which is part of “viral marketing”.
At the same time though, those lame ads using low-grade, overused memes (usually the comic ones) trying to be edgy pretty much make me want to pass on a product. Crappy AI-gen ads are even worse.
But next time I go to Japan, I absolutely still want to try a Sakaeru gummy because THAT marketing campaign was just brilliant and entertaining
( https://youtu.be/LQsMp4Oo6xM )
I’ve also seen a few cool tech things in ads that I’ve looked into. Generally nothing I’ll grab right away but they often end up in a list of things that I potentially buy later when I’ve some free cash or the need. Aliexpress is pretty good with this as it tends to suggest neat tech things that are a cheap to add and fill that “free shipping” gap.
What DOESN’T work is cheap/lame broadside marketing with little to no product details. I don’t want a video as an ad - especially not one from an influencer who has no clue but looks pretty - but I’m happy to look up an actual product demo that includes key features/points.
Honestly though, the best thing is if the product demonstratibly works. This is especially true for FOSS-based products that have stuff I can try for free at home (personal use) or ones where the main product is usable for limited seats etc and has a commercial/premium license with value-add like AD/SAML group integrations or SSO/MFA.
That said, any asshole who cold-calls me pretending an existing business relationship to setup a marketing meeting is going on “the list”, and vendor “demos” that are just marketing slides aren’t far off on that either
I liked the ads and saw the candy in a japanese speciality shop.
The small packs with 5 pieces has a very artificial grape flavor.
Not my cup of tea tbh.
Yeah pretty much, i mean you cant just assume because someone is a developer that they have a brain but this sums up my relationship with all the sales people ive met in my career
Me: Hey i need information about your product
Sales: Hey id love to swing by and show you our product line. How many can we put you foen for? Can we schedule a call?
Me: finds a different vendor
Yeah I think sales people are so trained into being sales people that they dont actually know how to talk like a human being anymore.
Seriously, there is something about those guys. They just cant talk normally. Not everyone. I have met some of them that just talk normally. and are aware of their products pros and cons in relation to what you need. Those are useful.
On the other hands, nerds can have their own little annoying habits too. Sometimes they have no social skills at all and act like machines.
I was always on the front lines of dealing with software vendors and I was just fine setting up a call. Now if the website wouldn’t give me so much as basic info and pricing, denied.
Related, one night I spend an hour researching bulk sandbag prices. Found ONE site that displayed my cost, no “call for pricing”.
*down
Nah. Foen is salesspeak.
You are not immune to propaganda
Nearly everyone thinks that they are immune, but we’re not, we just recognize some that probably wasn’t targeted at us. As far as I am concerned, the only way to not be influenced by propaganda would be to completely avoid it and be some sort of hermit.
Exactly. Blocking out ads wherever possible is the only way to not be influenced by advertising. At least it helps to know that one isn’t immune to it. That helps to counteract the effects somewhat, but don’t count on it if you aren’t actively keeping your defenses up.
I bet there are hermit influencers who post videos where they hold the latest chamberpot up to the camera and extol its virtues. Then they post a shelfie that shows their latest book haul about transcendental meditation and bushcrafting.
Hermits united. We get together every few years, swap stories about caves… it’s good fun! For a hermit, that is…
Do they just record the video to a usb drive, seal it in a bottle, and throw it in the ocean or something? Wouldn’t posting it online revoke their hermit status?
Yes, as long as the bottle is hermetically sealed.
I guess if you only posted and never read the comments/otherwise consumed you’d still be safe. Just screaming into the void
Screaming into the void is fun until the void screams back.
Yeah, the thing about propaganda is that it works, and if it doesn’t work, then the propagandists will come up with something else that does work. The thing is that they’re constantly thinking about how to exploit you, while you’re thinking about other stuff.
So for example, I hate feeling like I receive a hard sell. So, if I am at a store and somebody tries to sell me something, I will not buy it, and in fact, I’ll probably assume the product is so shoddy that it can’t be sold without pressure. Same goes for popup ads online.
But if a marketer knows this about me, then they can definitely manipulate me. They just have to do it in a way that I don’t realize is marketing. And there are all sorts of campaigns like that.
True, and having the hubris to think otherwise makes you even less immune.
Maybe some are. You may have fallen for some propaganda here.
No, they aren’t. Any one who thinks they are is more susceptible.
Humans are social creatures, propaganda is a social contagion.
The only people who could be would be those with no ties to anyone. Kind of a nonstarter for the whole “cooperative survival strategy” that humans got going on.
That’s propaganda.
I see what you’re saying, but I’m done talking about this. Your logic is circular at its base, so there’s nothing to talk about.
Yeah, I was just trying to prove a point that anything that’s a blanket statement saying everyone or no-one does something is invalid, unless it’s a physical constraint. (Even those break inside neutron stars and black holes.)
I agree with you that almost everyone is susceptible to propaganda, but to say that no one is immune is simply wrong. Anyway, sorry for being annoying and pedantic, but it was kind of on purpose.
Yeah, but maybe we don’t make that point on the statement that reminds people to be mindful of their beliefs and where they picked them up from. Feels like a thing that we should maybe encourage in people more, if anything.
But the article’s not talking about social humans. It’s talking about developers, probably the most antisocial humans to exist.
Which is why developers don’t want to talk to a salesperson and would rather just try the tool.
Yes, that is the generalization that the article pushed. It’s not true, because developers are not homogeneous. The point of my statement is “if you are a developer, ignore this because it is not true. You don’t have some sort of power that makes you immune to marketing. You’re just as susceptible as the rest of us, just in a different way. Ya know, like everyone else is”
Which is my point. Devs know they’re susceptible and want to avoid the propaganda.
It’s the same reason most of them block ads.
Nice try. This is just trying to get us to lower our guard and become complacent!
Or it’s brewing up excuses for declining sales.
I am sympathetic to the frustration with and resistance to feeling marketed to, but this person just seems to lack self-awareness… And lack of awareness in general. Not a good look.
I won’t assume he’s representative of large swathes of developers 👀👀👀
Spot on.
