Washing machines connected to the Internet is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard
25 years ago Dave Barry wrote about “smart appliences” and said everything there is to say. His foresight was impressive - and extremely funny, like all his columns.
https://www.deseret.com/2005/9/18/19912434/smart-appliances-are-a-bad-buy-for-half-wits/
Not one of the smartest? According to the powers that be, my washing machine is the dumb one.
Mine is in the basement. I used to have it set up so that when it finished, my upstairs lights would flash twice. It helped me not forget to move it to the dryer.
The only thing we can do is not buy them, if they require an internet connection for the primary functionality.
Unfortunately, that probably won’t work, because far too many people are clueless about the privacy implications and think “it’s neat” to get a notification that the dryer is done–like the damn buzzer that’s been used for decades isn’t good enough, somehow.
It’s like smart TVs. I want the dumbest rock of a tv I can find, and I’ll plug in the smarts thank you very much
The Internet connectivity is useful. Shows metrics like how much water is used for cycles and such.
What do you do with that information?
You don’t need the internet to display that.
Have a metrics button that shows water and energy use. All you need are a few sensors (which are probably already included) and some simple scripts. Done.
This article is 18 months old and has circulated here and on Reddit countless times
I feel like this is relevant. Although not exactly what the OC was referring to.
Like the other guys this is my first time seeing it.
My first time seeing it
"There is no evidence that the data is being sold to third parties . . . "
Don’t be naive. Of course it is.
Does LG explain why it needs access to your photos/pictures?
But there’s no evidence. Because they asked politely, and that’s the polite answer they got.
My washing machine has the ability to connect to Wi-Fi but I never set it up. Of course it’s a horrible idea just on the surface and it really serves no purpose.
I went out of my way to find a washer/dryer that did not have any form of networking.
It blows my mind that you had to go out of your way to find that.
I read a thing recently where someone was having a lot of problems with their
BekoBosch dishwasher. They’d gone for that brand because they’re known to be one of the more reliable brands, and they thought they were getting one that didn’t have silly “smart” features, but they were dismayed to find that they were wrong. I remember it caused them a lot of stress because functions that used to be available via a button on the dishwasher were no longer accessible without connecting stuff.Edit: and by “recently”, I mean a several months ago.
Edit 2: down thread, someone posted a video by the same guy, I think. I read it as a blog post, but this is the video version if you fancy watching a thing that will make you curse the modern world.
They had two or three without and they were a few hundred dollars more than most of the ones with WiFi. Actually I think the article was new when I was looking because I remember shareing it to show why I was not touching that shit with a 10 foot pole.
That’s wild. I bought a new front loader a couple years ago and I don’t recall seeing any such thing. It’s bizarre that the ones without wi-fi are more expensive. I don’t understand how there’s even a small demand for it, let alone the majority. I’m so old.
The ones with Wi-Fi are probably cheaper because they are profiting from selling your data. Just like with smart TVs.
Funny thing is, some of these devices have the ability to comb through public or unsecured access points to search for a way to send data back to the manufacturer.
Look up Amazon Sidewalk
That is precisely one of the applications I had in mind - but presumably Amazon charges vendors for that access, and what I’m describing is passive on-circuit logic to seek a free channel home.
I didn’t want a reader to think they’re safe if they just opt out of sidewalk (and somehow convince all their neighbors to do the same)
I’d argue that that’s not a funny thing at all.
Perhaps that explains why you’re not this guy’s friend … but several seasons of Family Guy, South Park, Adult Swim, and similar programming suggest that poop and piss jokes have a fairly broad audience.
Again why do you care if some adult somewhere has fun running around with a sticker and a sight gag of soiled slacks?
In theory it could be useful to be notified when it’s done if you’re out of earshot of the washing machine. In practice I don’t trust any manufacturer to make a machine and app that limits data to just that functionality
In theory it could be useful to be notified when it’s done if you’re out of earshot of the washing machine.
You can do that without a smart washer/dryer, if you want, by looking at the power draw. My washer/dryer don’t have any network connectivity, but I still get push notifications on my phone when the cycle is finished from a python script monitoring power draw on each circuit in my home via an IoTaWatt and influxDB.
This is a really smart solution! Thanks for sharing. I love adding functionality to existing things non-invasively and observing the power draw is just that.
This is what your phone timer is for
This is what not giving a shit whether your laundry is done or not is for.
The time on the display rarely matches the time the machine actually takes to complete in my experience, especially for dryers.
My house has a washer and dryer time-until-finished displays. I’ve watched both of them sit on one number for ten minutes or more.
Man, I like the ancient washer/dryer in my building. Wash = 45mins (every time) dryer is 1h (every time) good old reliable tech
Modern dryers with their crazy-ass controls piss me off. All I need is a time dial and a temperature switch.
In my building it’s exactly 2 minutes less than on the display, probably because it saves the laundry contractor money without being enough to spark complaints. It’s condominiums, so complaints can cause the Board to change companies.
I think some home machines use sensors which would make the timing less accurate.
I’m cool with being notified of my laundry being done and being notified of issues. The problem isn’t those kinds of features. The problem is that stealing data and company control over your device is a built-in future.
That, and the current fascination is removing options and controls from the machine and putting them only in the app. Presumably this is to entice you to use the app rather than simply ignoring it, as most people would otherwise do. The issue is that on the inevitable day they turn the servers off, you lose access to those features. Plus, how do you like not e.g. having a delay start feature at all unless your dishwasher is connected to the internet?
It doesn’t take much of a leap to predict that step 2 will be locking features behind a subscription paywall. We all know damn well that’s coming soon.
Not to speak of the app (probably) tracking the life out of you, just 'cause.
I just use it to ping me when it’s done so that I can dry and wash next load.
I factory reset my LG TV and refused to give it the WiFi password when they said they were going to use AI to analyze what people were watching on the TV to know best what ads to show us. Fuck that.
The TV is excellent as a dumb TV. Don’t need internet access.
I miss my old dumb TV. I pretty much only use HDMI input but the new TV I’ve got makes even that so annoying. I often lose 2-3 minutes just to turn it on properly. And then it wants to “setup my new device” every time and make “smart adjustments” to brightness (it always sets it to the max) and other stuff like that that I need to undo manually every time.
Oof. I’m sorry, that sucks. Now that I’ve neutered the LG it’s a great TV. Just sits there doing what it’s told, turning on and off with the receiver and never changing input.
Yeah, I’ve still got all dumb TVs, with small PCs connected. Best possible setup.
all dumb TVs, with small PCs connected.
This is the way. (DACO: Disney also chickens out.)
How do you remote-control playback on those small PCs with a remote controller?
I have a firestick with a remote, but it’s not the best solution.
I use a Logitech K400. Small and has a built in touch pad. I even designed a wall mount for it so I can keep it out of reach of my kids.
There are even smaller devices as well, but the keyboard works fine for us.
Unified Remote or KDE Connect, altough I like standing up and typing because I’m used to use both hands and a smartphone is… Extremely limited.
Okay, but what if I just want a remote? I can’t exactly hand my kids a phone just to control the TV.
Then the other comment already gave you a different approach.
Bluetooth mouse or mini keyboard with touchpad.
I can’t keep a mouse and mini keyboard lying around for kids and wife to use when they wanna switch to watching something else. Can’t have a phone either. It has to be a remote.
My TV was sending so much telemetry (blocked by piHole) that from time to time it would freeze and/or lag to the point when it is unusable. I turned wifi off - never had any issues yet.
Also, it TV had over 80% of requests off all my devices in a half a year. It basically tried to ping home every 5 seconds for days.
why THE FUCK does a washisng machine need wifi??
Airing dirty laundry?
Crypto mining?
So, ostensibly, to allow you to check on the status from your phone or get completion notifications, probably. But in reality, they want to gather as much data as they can about you and use that to sell things to you. IoT device data can provide far more insights into your life than you expect. Suddenly using the washer more, using different settings than usual? Someone else moved in or you have a new baby. Washer not used for a while along with other devices? You’re taking a vacation. Et cetera. Those details make targetting ads to you easier.
People dumb enough to think they need to be notified of when their laundry is done, whether washing or drying, instead of being aware of their surroundings.
I got a dumb washer and dryer because why would I need to be notified? Once you do a cycle or two you know how long it’ll take to finish.
Don’t these people set a simple timer on their phones? Or even just get an old fashioned digital kitchen timer? Or even more old fashioned analog timer?
Mine beeps when it’s done. Seems sufficient.
Mine plays a little song.
People are so terminally online they need real life delivered to them via push notification
I will say that I’ve been to some crazy McMansion houses where the washer and dryer are practically in a separate wing away from where people spend their time
what the hell. I’m not in school anymore. I shouldn’t have to learn anything like how long it takes my washing machine!!!
Recorded audio, sent back to the corporate office to be transcribed and sold to 3rd parties.
Yeah, is it really necessary to somehow control your laundry while you’re at work? You start it before you leave, and when you get home, it’s done. It’s not like you can use your cell phone to move the wet clothes into the drier anyway, so who cares?
And what kind of data are they collecting, anyway? How many times I do laundry? It’s not like they can tell which brands or products I’m using. It seems like useless empty data.
I use it to get a notification when it’s done. It seems like the timer is kind of a guess as it seems to actually take longer than what it says when the cycle starts.
Yeah, but if you are at work, do you really NEED to know when it’s done? And when your at home, can’t you just check it? Or even just listen to hear if it’s still running? Mine lets off a loud buzz when the cycle is over anyway.
WiFi in a washer/dryer is the solution to a problem nobody has.
I can’t hear the alarm in my office and get focused which causes me to delay further. It’s the system that works for me.
If it was a dryer I could understand it from a functional standpoint, I feel like my clothes are rarely dry after the first cycle so it would be cool to be able to start the second without needing to be in front of it. But I’m both stretching and lazy
I use it as a notification as well. When is the last time you cleaned the vents and lint trap?
Lint trap literally before every load. I was instilled from a young age with the absolute fear of a fire starting from the lint trap. Real or imagined, that shit stuck in my head to this day.
That’s cool. The real money is in the vents. At my old house, the dryer was terrible when I first moved in. The vents were pretty much packed with lint. I had the lines replaced without all the undulations the old one has. And then twice a year, I’d pull back the dryer, jam a leaf blower in and blow all the crap out.
Or, you could make more options for drier
This is one of the reasons why I set up Home Assistant. I have my own sensors that I flashed and tells me all I need to know via push notifications. Both units are modern machines so the time displayed is a moving estimate based on sensors. Saves time not having to make unnecessary trips to find the machine still running.
This was a router firmware issue, not a smart device issue.
My bad, I think I didn’t respond to the correct comment. It had to do with time remaining and wanting notifications.
Just wish there were better turnkey options out there for stuff like this. Very few people want to learn what’s needed to flash some random ESP hardware to support local-only sensors. And set that up in HA-etc. Local only should just be a standard option.
If I want something out of the box. I grab HomeKit devices.
Home Assistant can act as a Homekit controller so you get the offline benefits without the effort.
I don’t even have an Apple device in the house and it all still works great.
Yeah, that’s not how big corporations line their pockets though.
I set up HA a few years ago and I’m very happy with it. However, it has consumed a LOT of my free time in order to learn it.
I have used homemade sensors and controllers only a handful of times. I only do it when they are relatively simple to make or that the options to purchase are terrible and/or expensive. I’ve made some WLED devices with super cheap ESP32 devices and some soldering.
I wanted to do power monitoring for my home, but all of the commercial solutions are super expensive or require some stupid cloud account. I’m using the same cheap esp32s and some inductive coils to act as pickups for the power mains. I’ve found some plans that people have used and I have cobbled together something that should work. Board is flashed with ESPHome.
Either it will work or I will burn the house down. Can’t wait to find out!
I guess. I mean, I don’t know who’s really making much money off of cloud-connected appliances. Other than a few niche cases, or companies I wouldn’t call big corporations.
I suspect that the people who are making money are the companies who build and maintain the cloud connectivity — i.e. business-to-business contracts.
Agreed. It should but chances of that happening is pretty low without eventually getting enshittefied. That and wanting better control of lights and energy savings ultimately pushed me over the line to integrate HA into the home. I started small, and gradually added components as I found a need or benefit, factoring in time and effort as well.
Must be bitcoin laundering.
Unironically an innovative way to drive the heating element
LG: We are proud to introduce our groundbreaking next generation technology - washing machine based cloud services for businesses
I think you win the internet for today. You could also be right.
You got a genuine laugh out of me. Amazing.
This is reddit levels of reposting. This article is 19 months old.
This article is 19 months old.
And just as relevant today as it was then. Also reddit: I haven’t seen this (particular) article before, so it’s worth reposting so I and people like me get the message.
It’s not at all relevant since it was a router firmware issue.
And was debunked then as being bullshit. Numerous other people posted the logs of their machines on the network and no one even came close to these numbers. Ffs, that kind of data usage would imply VIDEO STREAMING. You’re not getting that amount from usage/diagnostic data. And I love people saying “oh well it’s audio recording you” with zero proof, let alone that none of these machines are even voice activated(themselves, not referring to using it with Alexa/Google home, in which case the thing recording you isn’t Samsung).
It’s just fear mongering with no proof because it aligns with things we’ve seen before and want to believe is true.
Never seen a washing machine take someone to the cleaners before.
I would pay extra if I could still buy a washing machine with no electronics in it. They maytag of my youth lasted 3 decades without repair or maintenance (tho it was loud as fuck at the end) I especially can’t imagine feeling the need to make a washing machine internet connected.
They really should have options with transparent pricing:
Mechanical washing machine $500: 350 + 150 for the warranty to cover mechanical control system breakage
Electronic washing machine $400: 300 + 100 for the warranty to cover electronic control system problems
Smart washing machine $275: $300 + 75 for warranty (less due to remote update option) - 100 for our anticipated profit on your data
The last time my dryer went out, it was going to cost a few hundred to fix it. Instead, I took off the cover on the controls, found the circuit board, found the ID numbers on it, Googled them, found it from some electronic supply place, ordered it, removed two screws and unclipped the old one, plugged in the new one and secured it with the 2 screws, and it still works, more than 10 years later. Cost about $50 for the circuit board.
If the mechanics of a washer or dryer still work, then it’s probably just the circuit board.
I fixed our last dryer with a 12 dollar belt. It took about an hour and most of that was cleaning lint out of it. Lasted a couple more years.
Yep, dryers are easy. Washers are more complicated, with the water and all. Still, if the problem is that it’s just dead, then it’s probably a circuit board issue.
Yep, dryers are easy
Heat pump driers are the latest fash, doubt that is true for these.
My maytag is still running after 20+, but like you said its kinda noisy
You’re lucky, our Maytag from 10 years ago was a piece of junk, dead after 7.
That’s the problem…it was from ten years ago. The 30 year old maytag died 20 years ago, so it was made in the 70s
Sorry for you. Manufacturing wasnt always a crapshoot
Probably just needs the suspension replaced.
Probably
Or the pulleys. Or bearings.
New washer: $500
Old washer suspension replacement: $395
I did mine for much cheaper on my Maytag, but your mileage may vary.
You can already but you won’t because it’s 3-4x the price. Speed Queen is one of them. Your comment is just performative.
This is a 600USD washing machine with a 20 year warranty.
E:.world won’t let me upload images, so just imagine there is a picture of a Samsung with a 20 year warranty I saw in Shenzhen.
Those warranties are parts only, not labor, and only on some specific component of the machine. It’s never a full 20 year parts and labor warranty, and certainly not a replacement warranty.
Samsung, LG, and even Maytag (Whirlpool) do this in the US also. They have their big “10 Year Warranty!” labels on the fronts of their machines, but if you peer at it with a magnifying glass it will reveal that it says parts only on the motor right below it.
Obviously this is basically worthless unless you have the wherewithal to replace that motor (or compressor!) yourself. But it lets them legally slap a big 10 on it, in the hopes the consumer will get a warm and fuzzy feeling on it and not notice the provisos until it’s too late.
Your comment is just performative.
What a dickhole thing to say to someone
I mean, the option is already there but here we have someone whining that they’d gladly pay extra if the option was available. What else was it if not performative?
Edit: didn’t realize I was replying to actual OP. If I’m a dick hole, you’re a twatwaffle. Given the answer by multiple people and all you want to do is argue with them. Exactly what I’m saying: your outrage is performative only. You don’t actually give a shit and won’t put out the extra money - you’ll just whine and complain on the internet like a big baby.
It is, but it’s also the truth. I have direct experience with this, having worked in customer-facing roles in this very industry. Most consumers who say they would pay more for a higher quality/heavy duty/simpler/oldschool/whatever appliance actually won’t when it comes time to finally belly up to that checkout counter.
I actually had the opportunity to do the math on this not long ago, and the answers were quite illuminating. I outlined that in a recent comment here, and the takeaway is that adjusted for inflation modern appliances are actually around one third — 33% — of the cost that they were back in the “good old days,” or in the case I worked up 1985. So no wonder we feel they’re built so cheaply. It’s because they actually are.
The problem is, getting a current consumer to pay $1300 or $1400 USD on a washing machine or a dishwasher is a really tough sell.
A 60 second search for information revealed you are full of shit: speed queens definitely have circuit boards and computer chips in them. Turns out your comment was just performative.
Nothing in my comment is anything to do with computer chips, only higher quality expensive appliances vs. lower quality cheaper ones.
Anyway, the Speed Queen Classic Series DC5 dryers are still mechanically controlled, with mechanical sequence timers in the control panel.
https://docs.alliancelaundry.com/tech_pdf/PartsService/D518094.pdf
The MSRP of one of these is $1,649.
The matching TC5 washer is electronically controlled, in order to offer automatic load sensing/fill and comply with DOE requirements. That’s my understanding of the rationale, anyway.
Nothing in my comment is anything to do with computer chips The entire basis of my comment that you responded to was about the absence of computer chips. You literally suggested the speed queen as an option that met my desire to have an electronics free washing machine.
I literally did not. I am not the same poster who suggested Speed Queen to you.
If I wanted to talk about chips I would have attached my reply to your first comment, not the second one. I am discussing the notion that consumers say they would pay more for some attribute or level of quality, whereas in reality by and large they would not.
I used Speed Queen for the price comparison work in the comment I wrote in a different thread, seven days ago, because they’re the closest thing you can get to a true oldschool laundry machine anymore and are in fact occupying the same price bracket as those entry level or mid tier machines from 40 years ago.
You realize I’m the one who originally said Speed Queen and called you performative and you’ve been being a douche to a completely different person thinking it was me, right?
You could say they were making a performative comment as well.
A tech-savvy San Francisco resident has sparked conversation online after he shared a perplexing discovery about his LG washing machine’s seemingly voracious appetite for data on X (formerly Twitter).
In a post with more than 7 million views, Johnie Lee shared a screenshot of his machine’s data usage, which showed around 3.6GB of daily data usage. For context, 3GB of data is the rough equivalent of streaming high-definition video for an hour on a device.
Results found that smart washing machines are collecting a significant amount of user data, including personal information such as date of birth, location, and even access to photos.
There is no evidence that the data is being sold to third parties, but the prolonged lifespan of washing machines has begun to raise questions about long-term data tracking.
And in yet another followup post, he clarified that is not actually the case
As this post has been incorrectly reported: Just to clarify the data usage is correctly attributed to the IP address used by the LG Washing Machine. I am monitoring the data usage more closely. What I was referencing in inaccuracy of the router is the attribution of 622 bytes to Apple iMessage. The rogue process is likely using the same port (5223) as iMessage and ASUS router is wrongly attributing it to that. There was gigabytes of data being uploaded from the IP address of the washer. I have segregated this device to its own network and logging data usage.
All I did was scroll down / read further in the link you shared, btw
Nothing mentioned in this thread was wrong. The misidentification is unrelated to the 3.6GiB.
As this post has been incorrectly reported: Just to clarify the data usage is correctly attributed to the IP address used by the LG Washing Machine. I am monitoring the data usage more closely.
What I was referencing in inaccuracy of the router is the attribution of 622 bytes to Apple iMessage. The rogue process is likely using the same port (5223) as iMessage and ASUS router is wrongly attributing it to that.
So close.
What I was referencing in inaccuracy of the router is the attribution of 622 bytes to Apple iMessage.
still not everything.
There was gigabytes of data being uploaded from the IP address of the >washer. I have segregated this device to its own network and logging data >usage.
I have yet to hear from LG on how to reset/update the firmware or how to >fix the rogue washing machine.
Yeah I was like this article again? From more than a year ago when it was just a network issue? I agree that appliances should be dumb without network connectivity, but continuing to share this is just misinformation at this point
There is no evidence that the data is being sold to third parties
Oh well, that’s all good then. /s
My washing machine has wifi, but I have never even been slightly interested in enabling it. I set up a monitor to notify when done by monitoring the power consumption of the breaker. Once it drops back down to zero after a couple of minutes, it triggers a notification. I don’t know what else I could ever need.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT
Welp, clothes are done.
That works when we’re nearby, yep! It’s just when we’re outside or upstairs. We hate mildewy or wrinkly clothes.
What is this devil technology?
Some machines are now hiding specific features inside apps. At least that’s the case for some dishwashers.
🫠
My washer and dryer both do that.
They still wash and dry, though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
