You add tiny, mini, useless balconies so that you can check off another tick box on a zillow or trulia search, justify an increased rental cost.
Then you make the balconies as small as possible, as featureless as possible, and throw a whole bunch of rules into your rental agreement that prevent you from actually using them for basically any reason: Can’t smoke on the balcony, can’t dry clothes on it, can’t cook on it, can’t display any thing like a flag or banner on the balcony because of some made up aesthetic code, etc.
I’ve lived in a lot of different apartments of differing quality and location, and while I’m not saying that modern apartment residential balconies are entirely a scam, they very often are.
Can’t smoke on the balcony,
Because that smoke goes into other people’s apartments. People who may not also be smokers or may have asthma or other medical conditions in which 2nd hand smoke is bad. not actually a building choice… most states now bar smoking inside or near a multi-unit residential building.
can’t dry clothes on it,
19 states have some form of “right to dry” legislation, most of which would protect drying on patio space.
can’t cook on it,
usually a matter of firecode. where I am, it’s illegal to have wood burning fire pits or charcoal grills, but gas grills are fine. Also, turkey friers.
These rules are because people are stupid and have caused apartment fires numerous times with these things. can you use charcoal safely? sure. Also, another reason smoking is generally illegal. there’s always that one smoker that forgets to clear out the ashtray every so often and that catches fire. (or they put a tissue in it or something, and that’s not at all fire retardant.)
can’t display any thing like a flag or banner on the balcony because of some made up aesthetic code, etc.
not actually legal. if there’s a residential building code that bans political speech (banners, flags, etc) then that’s a first amendment violation. The apartment can (maybe) ban things in their contract agreement, but that’s not a building code. that’s a contract agreement, and as long as it’s not exactly graphic, it probably falls into the “unenforceable” category.
19 states have some form of “right to dry” legislation, most of which would protect drying on patio space.
Two points which I would like to interject here:
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OP (of either the post or comment above) may not be in the United States, and
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Even if they are, there are 50 states and 1 capital district. That means those 19 states only make up roughly a third of the United States. Odds are they are not in one of them.
Fair enough.
though, my understanding is that the opposition to clotheslines is a mostly US thing. Especially in places where the weather is warm year-round. (specifically its the HOA’s because HOA’s are the devil.)
edit: also, there’s no state here that forbids the practice. (there may be cities that do, but I imagine those are in places like… florida. Government small enough to fit in your backyard.)
though, my understanding is that the opposition to clotheslines is a mostly US thing. Especially in places where the weather is warm year-round.
That’s fair. I’m not personally knowledgeable about said rules; I just thought I’d point out those couple things.
(specifically its the HOA’s because HOA’s are the devil.)
Agreed. I would say they need to go fuck themselves with a cactus, but really now. What did the cactus ever do to deserve that?
My house is in an HOA. I’m not allowed to have a clothesline.
I do anyway. It’s on my screened in porch, and not visible unless you’re climbing trees in my backyard. And if you are, fuck you, I’ll walk around naked all day if I goddamn well please.
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that’s a first amendment violation
It is a first amendment violation when THE STATE and ONLY THE STATE restricts your expression. You can absolutely have your expression restricted by private agreements that you willingly enter into.
When it’s a private agreement, that’s not BUILDING CODE.
Read my comment again.
Building codes are regulations imposed by city, state, or federal governments. Not by HOAs or landlords. If there is a building code that restricts political speech, it’s a first amendment violation.
Okay but the original comment never mentioned building codes, but the rental agreement
So, a bit of discussion about a hypothetical me has spawned from this and I’ll say some things here:
I am from the US, have mostly rented in the PNW.
I am aware that smoking is bad and can affect other people, and that idiots running grills can be very dangerous, but I’m old enough to remember when these used to be a major use case for residential balconies.
AFAIK, generally, you can still do these things if you own (or even rent) a house in a lower density area with a balcony or patio.
Hell, I’ve lived in places and with roommates who are entirely capable of nearly burning down an apartment complex by not knowing how to cook on the oven/range in their apartment, or by just smoking inside and woops that cigarette butt or spliff or joint missed the tray.
I’m not saying it should be the case that we ignore safety concerns in more dense housing, I’m more just pointing out that things which many people are used to be able to do on some kind of residential balcony are not actually doable as more and more people live in rentals.
As for clothes lines, decorations, hell in some places even public drinking of alcohol on a balcony all being technically legal to some extent but still being against a rental contract:
Surely you are aware that the landlord and property managers hold basically all the power in these situations unless you have the time and depth of pockets to legally challenge their usually illegal frivolous stipulations.
They can just fine you and threaten eviction or withhold your security deposit, and it will almost always be 5x to 10x less expensive to just accept this than to attempt to challenge it.
Hell, I have literally never received my security deposit back, anywhere I have ever rented, despite doing no actual ‘damage’ to the unit. They will always just invent some reason to withhold it.
… Anyway, my main drive here isn’t that you should just be allowed to do whatever you want on an apartment balcony, its that these balconies are functionally useless to the renter due to them being designed as an afterthought to drive up rental costs, as well as having all kinds of functionally real restrictions unless you want to get into a legal fight with your landlord.
Basically, at a glance, the balconies are just scams, false advertising that looks like a neat bonus at first, but then you realize you can’t actually do anything on them besides maybe sit on a chair on them, if one will even fit.
interesting that charcoal is banned but gas is fine. I’ve never had the grease accumulated on the bottom of the grill catch fire on a charcoal grill, but with a gas grill…
gas can be turned off, charcoal can’t.
it’s caused way more fires than uncleaned gas grills. mostly because people go inside to eat and forget about the coals (an then the wind comes up or something happens and sparks fly).
My friend had a balcony so small that one person had to crab walk out sideways and then a second person could stand in front of the door. We still stood out there and smoked though. The view was nice.
Can’t smoke on the balcony,
Legally you cannot smoke here within 100ft of a door or window that ventilates another’s workspace or living space as it represents carcinogenic pollution you’re willfully emitting despite knowing the risks.
In allowing it, the landlord would be subject to a number of complaints, some of them like human rights violations carrying no upper limit to the compensation – they could actually be sued for millions in the right extreme circumstances.
You can blame Jeff Bezos, George Clooney, and Nestle for that.
You’re going to have to walk us through that one, please.
I figure Jeff Bezos and Nestle ARE guilty of so much evil shit that they get away with, that it’s not actually in bad faith to blame them for things they had nothing to do with. They can accept blame for SOMETHING for once in their miserable god damned evil lives.
As for Clooney…well he’s just a smug bastard, and my Clooney bashing is well known here on Lemmy.
So you CAN blame them all for whatever it was we were talking about. Doesn’t make it true…per se…but you CAN blame them for it! Because fuck them anyways!
Ok. So you’re 15 and ‘edgy’.
holds up spork
Nipple Batman made balconies useless?
In some places that is a strategy to satisfy zoning requirements. The builder has to provide a minimum amount of outdoor area per dwelling unit. They could create a large ground-level courtyard, or they can create a bunch of tiny balconies that sum up to the same total area. The
ladderlatter strategy allows a larger building to exist on the same lot.Edit: Stupid voice-to-text always gets me.
I approve of the ladder strategy. Work those legs!
That’s a stepladder
What are you doing, stepladder!?
God damn, son! I’m only on the 63rd floor! How big is this ladder???
Maybe a way to make use of all those unused balconies. I’m on board.
What a Thrill…
A different design other than a basic box would allow them to make a large outdoor area at basically any level they want, not necessarily the ground, but that’s of course more expensive as well.
I think people value private outdoor space differently than public outdoor space. I don’t actually have a balcony but I think I would usually prefer a private space to a public one, even if the public one was much nicer.
It helps a lot if the balcony is somewhat enclosed. The balconies that are just iron fences with no privacy at all are basically useless.
so like, even if it were a box…
They don’t really have to encase each floor. most buildings are concrete, and they could just as easily seal that floor off and leave the observation platform open. But the reality is that it gets pretty windy up that high, and most people won’t want to be out there for very long at all. And not at all if it’s at all inclement.
not to mention… jumpers.
jumpers deserve rights too
Jumping is a bad way to go.
Personally, assisted suicide should be allowed; (but also maybe mandate a few rounds of therapy?) this way people don’t have to find out what being a human shaped puddle is like, because they jumped from not-high-enough.
97% of the time, the average car just sits in the parking space, taking up space not being used.
I guess you can say something similar applied to balconies. They are probably being used, but only a small portion of the day.
Counterexample. We love our little balcony. We have some plants, a bench, and a hummingbird feeder. We take our coffee out there for ‘cocktail hour’ at 7, and sit, talk, watch the world go by a few floors down, and enjoy each other’s company.
If you’re not using your balcony, you really should.
yess we have a similar situation!! i was under the impression EVERYONE used their balconies!
There are a tonne of apartment balconies that are just afterthoughts by the developer though. I see plenty that are narrow to the point of being useless, or 30 floors up with no enclosed overhang which just generally feels kinda terrifying.
wait we had the same issue with our apartments balconies, had to call some guys to manually install barriers so me/the cat/people who leaned over too far wouldnt fall and die
Totally
Same with backyard. None of my neighbors are ever in their backyard. How do I know? If it’s not raining and it’s above 20c very likely I am in mine.
Agreed. I live on my back patio when it’s warm enough. I’ve gotten called out (not in a bad way) on meetings for my hammock background. ;-)
Oh mate I love sleeping in hammock, it takes some technique but it’s the best. I haven’t done that in 20 years so I may need extra research to be able to stand up now.
Unfortunately I can’t hang one where I live, the fence is not strong enough and I’m renting.
So pot plants have somewhere to die
Mine love it out there.
The trick is to bring them inside before it gets cold.
You couldn’t pay me to go out on a balcony if it’s higher than 1 story. Fuck heights.
I had a friend that was drunk and was smoking and leaning back on a balcony and went over. No one even heard him. One minute he was there, the next minute he was gone. No one even looked down for a few minutes because people were regularly coming and going from the balcony and people just assumed he went back inside.
Broke both his arms, his neck, fucked up his back, and had a major concussion. I think maybe he broke some ribs too. Really fucked him up. He didn’t die, but the head injury caused a dramatic personality change and the neck and back stuff created chronic pain.
Another guy I knew intentionally jumped off a dorm balcony and severely and multiply fractured both his legs and fucked his knees forever.
Don’t… uh, accidentally drop from great heights, people.
I’m sorry to hear about your friend. I hope he’s doing well, all things considered. I will refrain from being drunk on a balcony. I don’t like being drunk anyways.
We had a great balcony on 15 but wow, standing at the railing was only a sometimes-thing and only for a short while. Sorry of our guests wouldn’t go outside at all, and I completely understand why.
I used to be afraid of heights. Then, in basic training, we did some rappelling. Every second of the process was a trained and well-practiced task, orchestrated on the day by sergeants “speaking clearly” as is their talent. There were no mistakes, there was no fear while wrapped in the process, and there was no hesitation. The actual heights part was a few fleeting seconds.
This achievement stayed with me 20 years until I absolutely lost my shit while rock climbing a familiar route out in New Paltz, embarrassing myself, my family, my friends.
I use mine! Actually I made sure to.look for an apartment with a balcony since I have pets
I don’t sit on my balcony despite the table and chairs I have out there, but I have lots of plants that soften the view and spark joy. It’s also a place the firefighters could pluck me from.
I wanted a balcony but the real estate agent politely implied that I couldn’t afford one in the area where I was looking for housing. With that said, I can see myself using it for just an hour or two a week while the weather is nice. I like the idea of sitting out on the balcony but I expect that in practice it would be noisy out there and boring on my own.
Me too. I have an outstanding rocking chair out there for reading. We also have a tiny table between two chairs, perfect for drinks.
Edit: I just set a reminder for tomorrow morning to go out before it gets warm.
For smokers
People want the option to use their balcony. Then they realize it’s usually not so pleasant being exposed like that to the sun, wind, temp.
… or just ‘exposed’. to neighbors, passers-by, and the pervert in the corner office across the street.
Heh, I walk around naked with the blinds open because where I live, people would need binoculars to see me and if they choose to, their resulting suffering is their own fault. One advantage of being unattractive…
I was annoyed at this local news investigation about a high rise neighbor complaining about another walking around naked with the blinds open. They had footage blured out but when you saw them talk with the “irate” neighbor you could tell they must of had to have put the camera right up to the window. Its like wtf you see the guy because your pressing you face against your glass to get a look. No way you see him if you casually hanging in your place.
There’s definitely a guy in the building across from me that stares. I don’t think he’s a creep – he’s probably just bored and looking around – but his face is pressed up against the window so he stands out. I’ve made eye contact a few times, ugh.
Joke’s on them! I’ll stare into their telescope and out-perv them any day of the week…
Agreed! They’re always filthy/dusty and annoying to clean.
And even though no one gives a shit enough to stare, it’s hard not to feel… watched.
Just put walls on there, problem solved.
Removed by mod
Maybe in order to give each resident the same chance to jump?
/s
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Depends on where you live. In Japan, most of the time it’s either way too hot to hang out on the balcony or way too cold. In Europe it’s fine in many places for most of the year.
Some of it also has to do with rent prices which can be higher if you have a balcony.
Also, and again in Japan: There is an emergency balcony exit in some apartment buildings in case a natural disaster hits. It’s probably easier to climb your way down a bunch of balconies with holes in the ground than a blank wall
I live in Berlin, and while I don’t have a balcony myself, I spend a lot of time enviously starring at my neighbours that do, as they use them quite a bit.
There aren’t many smokers anymore, and small apartment balconies were usually used for smoking.
As someone who can barely approach the edge of a 3-story parking structure, I would come unraveled on one of those balconies.
Three stories? You’re a brave soul.
As a counterexample, look at the Marina City towers in Chicago (aka the corncobs); all of the units have balconies, and the balconies are definitely a selling point. They’re quite large; in the case of the studios, the balcony can be nearly as large as the living space. (I think that I recently saw a nearly all original condo in Marina City go up for sale in the mid $400s? It was an interesting time capsule.)
And yet I never see people on the corncob balconies
I’ve seen people on them. Not a ton. But I would see people on them every so often when I was heading to shows at House of Blues, usually later in the evening in the summer and early fall. I can’t imagine using them in the middle of winter, when it’s -10F and winds are whipping around at 30mph.
It’s for emergency exit.
/s
