• @shrugal@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    24
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    But the original creation cost time and money, which you’re not reimbursing the creator for. The moral thing to do is to pay your share of that if you make a copy, even if the copy itself doesn’t cost anything.

    It’s like going to a concert without paying the entrance fee. Sure it’s not a big deal if only one person does it, but the concert couldn’t even happen if everyone acted like this, or the organizers would have to pay for it all by themselves.

    If you want to morally justify piracy then start with the ridiculous earnings and monopolies of big media companies, or the fact that they will just remove your access to media you “bought”. Piracy is like stealing, but sometimes stealing is the right thing to do.

    • MaggiWuerze
      link
      fedilink
      1511 months ago

      Would you call it Piracy if I lend a bluray from a friend? I didn’t pay for it and yet I’ve watched it.

      • @shrugal@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        7
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        No, because it’s so widespread and natural that it should be expected and already accounted for in the price. But there is no hard line imo, and simplified examples often fail to capture all the aspects that go into the decision. E.g. I’d say paying for one person at a concert and sneaking in another would basically be piracy, even though the two situations are very similar on a surface level.

        I think it’s about reasonable expectations both parties of the agreement can have, based on established social norms. If you buy a movie for personal consumption you should be able to expect that you can watch it whenever you want, and also share that experience with friends and family. And at the same time the seller should be able to expect that you limit it to a reasonable number of personal contacts, and don’t start to sell it to strangers or run a movie theater, because that expectation was used to set the price.

        • Norgur
          link
          fedilink
          811 months ago

          So if piracy was “widespread and natural” it’d be bueno?

          • @shrugal@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            5
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            If that would be possible then yes, or course.

            That’s bascially the Start Trek future, where everybody’s needs are met and people can just do whatever they want. It doesn’t “cost” anything to create stuff, so it’s fine to copy everything for free. But that’s not the reality we are living in. In our’s somebody has to pay for things, and if everyone pirated everything then things couldn’t be made anymore.

            An example where it kinda works is open source software. People don’t charge for copies, because they expect to get help with their work and also be allowed to use other OS software without paying for it. As long as that balance holds it works out fine, but there are a lot of projects that required too much investment from the creator’s and didn’t provide enough back for them to keep going. And even there, companies profiting from OS projects are expected or even required to pay it back, by contributing code and paying for engineers and sponsorships.

      • @whoisearth@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        411 months ago

        To further the thought experiment. I digitize my Blu-ray and put it on a private tracker to share with ONLY my friends. Is that piracy?

        Copywrite laws are antiquated at best and need to be destroyed at worst.

        If you need more proof look at bullshit like how Paramount+ until recently couldn’t show flagship shows like Picard in Canada because the rights were given to Crave.

        So as a consumer I want to go to the owner of the property and I can’t watch it because the owner told me they gave a copy of it to someone else.

    • @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      311 months ago

      The moral thing to do is to pay your share of that if you make a copy, even if the copy itself doesn’t cost anything.

      under what ethical system?

      • @shrugal@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        3
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        Mine, obviously. But feel free to correct me if you disagree with something.

        • @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          111 months ago

          there’s no reason to believe what you claimed. a claim made without justification can be dismissed without justification.

          • @shrugal@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            211 months ago

            What unjustified claim did I make that you disagree with? Seems all rather uncontroversial to me.

            • @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              111 months ago

              The moral thing to do is to pay your share of that if you make a copy, even if the copy itself doesn’t cost anything.

              i don’t need to disagree to disbelieve. i do disagree, but without establishing your justification for this claim, it’s kind of hard to argue against it.

              • @shrugal@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                211 months ago

                The justification was that creating things has a cost, even if a copy doesn’t, and that we should distribute that cost as fairly as possible among the people benefiting from the creation.

          • @MJBrune@beehaw.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            211 months ago

            They made a justification. They showed you how people couldn’t make these things without people paying for them.

            • @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              111 months ago

              They showed you how people couldn’t make these things without people paying for them.

              but that’s not true. people make things all the time without being paid.

              • @MJBrune@beehaw.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                111 months ago

                people make things all the time without being paid.

                Less people make things without being paid than those who make things to get paid. That is a common fact we can both agree on. If you need the number of open source games compared to the number of paid games then I recommend you grab those numbers yourself.

                • @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  111 months ago

                  there are over one hundred fifty thousand results on github for “tictactoe”.

                  just how many paid games do you think there are, by the way?

                • @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  111 months ago

                  this doesn’t prove anyone ever needs to be paid to make something. a single counter example disproves the claim.

                • @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  111 months ago

                  github shows a hundred thousand repositories for the query “hangman”. assuming 10% of them are false positives it’s still a great number.

                  • @MJBrune@beehaw.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    111 months ago

                    You are equating someone’s terrible hobby project to paid games like it’s 1 to 1. You are simply arguing in bad faith. Have a good day though, hopefully, one day we can converse properly.

    • @Zworf@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      1
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      It’s like going to a concert without paying the entrance fee. Sure it’s not a big deal if only one person does it, but the concert couldn’t even happen if everyone acted like this

      That’s a systemic problem, something I wouldn’t personally care about. The “system” is just so horribly screwed up and skewed against us that I just no longer care if it works or not.

      If you want to morally justify piracy then start with the ridiculous earnings and monopolies of big media companies, or the fact that they will just remove your access to media you “bought”. Piracy is like stealing, but sometimes stealing is the right thing to do.

      This rubs me the wrong way too, yes. Though I’m really beyond moral justifications, I just stopped caring.

      • Iapar
        link
        fedilink
        111 months ago

        Same here. The world is unjust so act accordingly.

        Which doesn’t mean be an asshole to everybody and steal everything you can but be an asshole to assholes and steal from franchises.